Can we talk food intolerance and behaviour issues?

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I'm in the same position with 2 riding horses but I am unable to make the link to anything. Like above I take them off whatever I think is suspect, get back to normal and 2 days later we are back to wild eyes. It is very disappointing.

Some days they are both spooky ridden and some days only one of them, some times it relates to wilder weather. it is difficult to see that my horse can be ridden on the buckle with me fast asleep one day and the next he spooks at everything (and I mean everything) and if a horse either comes up behind us or we hear it in front on the road he really panics. Today a horse came down the road towards us and he put his head up and looked but kept on walking. Another day it is 180 degree turn and back down the road.
I have been working on food intolerance for a while so this thread is very timely but I just cannot make the link.



the feed between the 2 of them is soaked hay
one gets micro linseed the other gets none
copra
grass nuts
hi fibre nut
alfalfa nuts which I have been trying to relate it to but can't really
equimins AC
salt
vit E


one is fat and one thin.

has anyone had problems with copra? I am thinking of just feeding copra to start an elimination diet
can anyone link Dengie grass pellets to problems?

I would experiment with a change of grassnuts. We wanted the Appy to have magnesium in her feed tea. They normally just have a handfulof Agrobs Weisencobs with some salt, while the sheep get grassnuts.The sheep turn their noses up at Agrobs,from this we now deduce that the grassnuts must have some molasses to hold them together. The sheep do NOT like Emerald Green grassnuts.
We gave the Appy a few grassnuts to make the magnesium more appealing and gave the cob a few, too, to keep her out of her friend's bucket. That was a dire mistake, she started chewing her legs and.making them sore. After the 3rd day we took her off the grassnuts and I am able to keep on top of the sore legs, in fact the feather is growing back but she still rubs/chews occasionally and can break a scab open so easily.

In fact thinking about it as I write this, the cob has been known to get itchy, scabby legs in summer, too. I've usually put it down to sweating under the feather but maybe not.


She is now on ForagePlus Winter Balancer, which is probably helping, certainly the sores are clearing up.

 

[Rowreach]

I suspect I've got the same issue with the short soak vs regular beet pulp that takes 12 hours or so to soak.

If you can get hold of long soak shredded SB that is the best. Cattle SB pellets tend to be welded together with molasses, and most horse people seem to need to feed the ten minute speedy soak stuff. Finding the shredded stuff, however .....

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

And because horses like to make fools of us, or at least mine all do, I resolutely refused to feed alfalfa of any sort (barring the small amount in Protexin gut balancer) to mine.

Then when my very feed sensitive/reactive mare's Equibiome report came back, it was advised to feed her some alfalfa. 'No chance', I initially thought. Then, on reflection, I decided that having paid £150 for the analysis that I had better follow the recommendations.

She is thriving on the stuff .

Horses, eh?

The only addtiona lfeed that the TBxWelsh D that YorksG wrote about could tolerate was alfalfa! This was in the early 90s when it wasn't easy to get hold of, we had to get some imported from Canada

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Slightly off topic but I noticed a reduction/halt in growth and redness/how angry my boys sarcoids were when I removed all oils other than cold pressed oils, linseed of any kind, wheatfeed and oatfeed and soya from his diet.

He was fed copra, grass chaff and alfalfa pellets and did very well on it.

 

[lynz88]

If you can get hold of long soak shredded SB that is the best. Cattle SB pellets tend to be welded together with molasses, and most horse people seem to need to feed the ten minute speedy soak stuff. Finding the shredded stuff, however .....

I think I am going to keep him off the BP and if I need a little extra, go for oats instead as he is on alfalfa (no problems).

 

[Annagain]

In fact thinking about it as I write this, the cob has been known to get itchy, scabby legs in summer, too. I've usually put it down to sweating under the feather but maybe not.

If it's sugar, I'd expect spring / autumn to be the worst times. They are for Monty anyway. A decent amount of rain in summer can cause a mini flare up too but nowhere near as bad. He gets it on the front of his legs and around his hocks rather than the fetlock area that you'd expect.

 

[SEL]

I'm now wondering what the manufacturing process is for kwik and speedi beet that means some horses react to it. I've fed beet for literally decades and though the quick soak stuff would be a plus. Now I'm wondering.....

 

[paddy555]

I refused to feed 'traditional' highly molassed long soak sugar beet for ages because of my horse's reaction to short soak sugar beet. Previously I had fed it successfully in winter for years and never had any problems. It's not a crop that I particularly want to buy into either but bizarrely, it turns out that it is fine, more than fine for my appy x. Starch has always been more of a problem to him than sugar too though I am careful with sugars. Short soak, unmollassed sugar beet (speedi beet and relatives) made my chap very unhappy, footy and irrational. It's very odd but I guess part of the manufacturing process is to blame rather than the actual sugar beet or horrible cheap molasses that it is coated in. Carrots are also a bit tricky...!!

very many years ago I used to feed molassed SB to everyone. Several different breeds. Not once did any of them seem wild to ride. In fact not once did any of them have any problems with it. Some of them did many thousands of barefoot miles on it with no signs of footiness. In theory it should have caused problems but it didn't.
I stopped when it became unpopular due to molasses. Maybe I shouldn't have

SEL, which beet? molassed/unmolassed shreds or nuts? Is it the bog standard Trident beet I used to feed?

 

[paddy555]

I'm now wondering what the manufacturing process is for kwik and speedi beet that means some horses react to it. .

there was a time when some horses reacted badly ie footy to alfalfa in things such as Hi fi and Alfa A, Mine (now dead) was one of them but give him alfalfa pellets and no problem. Same manufacturer ie Dengie. Someone came up with the idea it was the difference in the manufacturing of the product

 

[ycbm]

I've never had a single behavioural issue with molassed beet either. Back in the day, it was fed by most people. I fed it to everything for years and years. I had just the one TB who was difficult to put weight on, but she loved eating it and behaved fine. She just got fatter when I stopped giving it to her, it was very odd.
.

 

[littleshetland]

Has anyone experienced any adverse reactions with Top Spec Zero - oat straw chaff?

 

[rabatsa]

My mule gets really itchy when fed carrots.

 

[onemoretime]

I've never had a single behavioural issue with molassed beet either. Back in the day, it was fed by most people. I fed it to everything for years and years. I had just the one TB who was difficult to put weight on, but she loved eating it and behaved fine. She just got fatter when I stopped giving it to her, it was very odd.
.

I agree with this. I fed the original shredded sugar beet since the 60's to everything up until around 2010 and never had a problem. I stopped as said above, because of the molasses theory.

 

[FestiveG]

Has anyone experienced any adverse reactions with Top Spec Zero - oat straw chaff?

We feed honey chop chopped oat straw, with no problem, but anyfeed can be a problem for any individual horse.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If it's sugar, I'd expect spring / autumn to be the worst times. They are for Monty anyway. A decent amount of rain in summer can cause a mini flare up too but nowhere near as bad. He gets it on the front of his legs and around his hocks rather than the fetlock area that you'd expect.

Definitely not fetlocks, more up the pasterns. I am pleased with the Winter Balancer, the horses both like it and happily eat it, which tells me something. I shall probably use theFP blancer in Summer too -and I shall keep a close eye on what happens with her legs.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Alfalfa for my old mare, she could be sharp at the best of times but on that she just exploded into a fire breathing dragon on the ground and ridden! I remember back in the day feeding my pony neat oats before a long ride or gymkhana to give him a bit more oomph, didn't make a jot of difference. Pity I didnt know about alfalfa then it might just have worked on him!

Oh and linseed oil is another for my mare and also on one young cob it perked him up no end but he was still safe, she wasn't lol!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Has anyone experienced any adverse reactions with Top Spec Zero - oat straw chaff?

The problem with TCZ is that it isn't plain straw, it contains 'tasty' additives.
We couldn't get our usual Honeychop plain oat straw chaff in the summer and tried HC Lite & Healthy instead. They absolutely wolfed it down and were getting pushy for it, so that was the last bag of that!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

One of my Arab's can't have alfalfa he is a complete lunatic on it top spec did the same and baileys conditioning cubes, I suspect molasses does the same to him so he gets a very basic feed.

 

[vhf]

A few who could tolerate haylage OR sugarbeet in the diet, but not both. Behaviour or gut issues.
Pimply rashes from really quite low levels of cereals. (various cereals, various horses)
One who picks at short soak sugarbeet but is greedy for long soak, molassed or otherwise. (She's a 'wise one' so I suspect it doesn't agree with her, no idea why.)
One who cannot tolerate brewers yeast - goes from angel to devil within hours and back within 24 hours of stopping. Yet can take feeds with yea-sacc.
Horses fine with traditional long soak molassed sugarbeet, yet failing to tolerate sugars from other sources.
Many that did well and didn't lose the plot on oats, but one or two who did, sometimes spectacularly so.
One that scoured dreadfully on cooking apple peel (but was fine with eaters in any quantity!)

 

[laura_nash]

Has anyone experienced any adverse reactions with Top Spec Zero - oat straw chaff?

I've fed bucket loads of it to 3 without any issues. They also don't find it that tasty ( they only eat it if hungry). Obviously it wouldn't suit a horse with an intolerance to oats or the other ingredients (limestone flour and favouring I think).

ETA Those same 3 also had Top Spec anti lam balancer without issue though, so presumably aren't sensitive to whatever this top spec issue is.

 

[ycbm]

I wonder what it could possibly be about cooking and rolling the beet in the quick soak versions which changes it for the worse from the raw long soak stuff. With cereals, it's generally reckoned that cooking (micronising) makes them less "dangerous", but it appears to be the opposite with beet.
.

 

[Hepsibah]

My OH's Cleveland Bay broodmare got very edgy when fed any sort of cereal and would barge through anything short of a heavy metal bar which was hung outside her stable door to keep her in.

 

[ycbm]

It's interesting that one of the commonest behaviours we are reporting is to run through things. My Appyx wouldn't dream of doing it when he's on the right food, if anything he's a very submissive horse.
.

 

[Rowreach]

Mine only seems to react to refined sugars/processed feeds and chaffs, she's fine on straights and on grass (out 24/7 in the summer) and she loves carrots and doesn't have a problem with them.

Re chaffs, they are the work of the devil - don't rely on the ingredients listed on the bag, go to the relevant website and have a look at the ingredients there, and you will be shocked (and may find the reason your horse is doing strange things).

 

[lynz88]

I wonder what it could possibly be about cooking and rolling the beet in the quick soak versions which changes it for the worse from the raw long soak stuff. With cereals, it's generally reckoned that cooking (micronising) makes them less "dangerous", but it appears to be the opposite with beet.
.

I was literally just asking this question the other day! Especially when the sarcoid suddenly shrunk when removed from the beet

 

[paddy555]

if someone wants to feed long soak molassed SB there is of course no reason why you can't reduce the level of molasses very easily by just putting the soaked SB in a sieve and running water through it. You can do from some molasses to totally white unmolassed whatever your preference is

 

[ycbm]

if someone wants to feed long soak molassed SB there is of course no reason why you can't reduce the level of molasses very easily by just putting the soaked SB in a sieve and running water through it. You can do from some molasses to totally white unmolassed whatever your preference is

Excellent suggestion Paddy. I also used to soak a small bit in a huge amount of water, stir it up a bit and tip all the easily tipped water off the top.

ETA, there is also an unmolassed version of long soak pellets but it can be very difficult to obtain.,
.

 

[SEL]

very many years ago I used to feed molassed SB to everyone. Several different breeds. Not once did any of them seem wild to ride. In fact not once did any of them have any problems with it. Some of them did many thousands of barefoot miles on it with no signs of footiness. In theory it should have caused problems but it didn't.
I stopped when it became unpopular due to molasses. Maybe I shouldn't have

SEL, which beet? molassed/unmolassed shreds or nuts? Is it the bog standard Trident beet I used to feed?

I have no idea what brand I used to feed - I'm sure it was shreds you emptied into a bucket, dumped water over and left it for the next day. I remember a yard I had the Appy on feeding the shreds and that always smelt sweet, but I knew about her PSSM then so I was too paranoid to feed it and used kwikbeet. That had shaggy riding school ponies and I don't remember any issues tbh - rye grass haylage caused more problems with them

I can remember feeding beet as a little kid - the lady & her dad who owned the place fed it to everything they decided needed a feed so it's sort of stuck with me! (Beet and pony nuts did us fine then ?)

There's a lot of Appys popping up on this thread. Are those spotty genetics more susceptible for some reason?

 

[palo1]

Excellent suggestion Paddy. I also used to soak a small bit in a huge amount of water, stir it up a bit and tip all the easily tipped water off the top.

ETA, there is also an unmolassed version of long soak pellets but it can be very difficult to obtain.,
.

Yes - but horses don't enjoy that so much! Having found that Trident beet pulp nuts are ok for all of ours I am strangely delighted to be able to return to such a 'traditional' winter feed even though I know the molasses should be a problem. I also use it in tons of water to create a good drink after hard work. The fact that I can use it safely really is brilliant! I have always felt too that the appys are particularly sensitive though I am not sure quite why. My appy has taught me more about feed than any other horse...

Somewhat strangely too, even though my appy is incredibly sensitive in term of foot health/barefoot working, the hugely molassed sugar beet has never made a bit of difference. It really is odd.

 

[ycbm]

There's a lot of Appys popping up on this thread. Are those spotty genetics more susceptible for some reason?

My guess is yes. I suspect they might also get more sarcoids, I don't know if that would be related.
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