Can we talk food intolerance and behaviour issues?

[FestiveG]

Or first, unregistered appy had no problems with feed, interestingly, as we had her at the same time as the tbx Welsh. The following two, both registered, were and are much more tricky to feed.

 

[palo1]

I just wanted to add that having had such difficult reactions from my appy to all sorts of quite 'normal' feeds, it is utterly charming that my Welshie can have oats. I love feeding oats as a straight so she gets top marks for thriving on a small quantity!

 

[Hackback]

Linseed with mine and I'm glad to read that others have also experienced an issue, as its always promoted as a safe, non heating conditioning feed. I thought I was going to die the first time I rode after feeding it - we were out in the middle of the road and it was all I could do to contain the pace to full pelt trot with dragon sound effects. Immediately removed it from his diet but I did try again a few months later with the same result. Not tried again since ?

 

[Squeak]

I've also had a horse who couldn't cope with carrots. He could have the odd one but anymore than that and he'd be itching like mad. It seemed to be linked to the sugar as well because he was far better in the winter and once his diet had been changed to minimal sugar he's hardly itched at all.

I can't remember where the article was but it mentioned about some of the weedkillers used on fields potentially changing the way that horses metabolise sugar and consequently more horses having problems with sugar and also a rise in laminitis. It was a fairly hypothetical article but after 4 horses being very itchy on a yard that I know had sprayed for the previous two years to all stopping itching once they'd moved to different yards, I did wonder.

ETA I've also had one who became a fire breathing dragon with any hint of molasses and another one who was inexhaustible when it had even a sniff of alfalfa.

 

[asmp]

My guess is yes. I suspect they might also get more sarcoids, I don't know if that would be related.
.

I was wondering that too! Plus our appyX has had sarcoids.

 

[EllieBeast]

I have an appy x who’s intolerant to alfalfa too, apparently it’s incredibly common in horses with appy heritage.

Mine is generally a very calm, brave and rational horse. When fed alfalfa she gets the same crazy eyes you describe, and behaves like a total scatterbrain ?

 

[paddy555]

There's a lot of Appys popping up on this thread. Are those spotty genetics more susceptible for some reason?

I'd noticed that. Couldn't decide if HHO peeps were just very fond of Aps which are relatively rare in numbers compared to many other breeds. Or if they had problems

 

[paddy555]

I was wondering that too! Plus our appyX has had sarcoids.

I have come across comments linking micro linseed to sarcoids. That is not vet/feed expert corroborated evidence but I don't think it can just be dismissed. Perhaps something for those with sarcoids to keep an eye on,

 

[Rowreach]

Regardless of breed, many of these issues have come about since compound feeds became a thing and the art of feeding straights has been almost lost (except for a few of us auld dolls who are still alive).

 

[HuskyFluff]

Another Appy... Mine was rearing in the stable at me on molassed sugarbeet, stopped when it was removed. She's fine with alfalfa though. She's currently on the pure feeds balancer, which also seems to have improved her hoof quality.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I bought my first spotty back in 1973 and started breeding them. Lost track of how many I bred but in excess of 20 and kept in touch with some all their lives. I bred my last appaloosa in 1997 but continued to own them up to 2017. I always used soaked sugarbeet pellets and only stopped when I took on a laminitic pony. I used alfalfa too in later years. Never had any sort of reaction from any of mine in fact after feeding it to my stallion who had soft soles and kept getting abscesses his feet improved massively. I never had any with sarcoids, must have been very lucky. Had a couple of few spots who were night blind and the first mare I bred who lived to be 29 did go blind which may have been uveitis and another from my breeding but not bred by me was put down with uveitis.
Until I started hearing about food intolerances on here I had never come across it. Just shows there is always something new to learn.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Regardless of breed, many of these issues have come about since compound feeds became a thing and the art of feeding straights has been almost lost (except for a few of us auld dolls who are still alive).

Actually I can relate to this as for many years I fed straights as the compound feeds didn't exist then. It appals me now at just how much molasses goes into muesli type feeds. I remember when mixes first came in they weren't molassed and did feed them sometimes. Now I only feed Fast Fibre or Veteran Vitality plus Speedibeet and micronised linseed.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

Not sure what Faran is intolerant to at the moment. I changed him from suregrow onto a general supplement and he had hives the size of 10p coins within days. Put him back on the suregrow and they went away.

He gets alfalfa and linseed and has no change to his temp or coat/Skin/hooves etc.

Kia on the other hand was cereal intolerant but could cope Fine with linseed and alfalfa, thankfully as he was a fussy pig and a poor doer and keeping him eating and weight on even before his teeth and cushings made life really hard for me was already a nightmare.

 

[GinaGeo]

Interesting to see so many Appaloosa’s being so good reactive.

Mum’s late boy (Appaloosa) could go very reactive when fed the wrong food. Calm and Condition had him climbing the walls. He’d run straight over the top of you.

Interestingly I’d have told you mine were alfalfa intolerant and told you different times they’d reacted. The Equibiome test suggested it. I used it. With healthier guts, they’re fine.

 

[ycbm]

He’d run straight over the top of you.

This is getting pretty weird now. What is it about the food intolerances that's causing this particular behaviour? When mine did it the other night it was as if I was invisible.
.

 

[LittleRolo]

16+ turned my perfect, mild mannered if sometimes a little aloof Connemara into a agressive nut job that tried to kill me on the stable. Took him off it and within 3 days he was normal again. Mare is like a waste disposal and eats EVERYTHING apart from parsnips. I have to be careful with her weight but nothing really sends her wonky in other ways.

 

[FestiveG]

This is getting pretty weird now. What is it about the food intolerances that's causing this particular behaviour? When mine did it the other night it was as if I was invisible.
.

With our original intolerant mare, it took the form of her having no regard for her own, or anyone else's safety. It took two people, each with a lead rope on a halter to bring her 50 yards in at night, both wearing hats hats, as she would go up if she couldn't go forwards! We think she was worse when she needed a "top up" of the food she couldn't cope with.

 

[PapaverFollis]

One of mine recently had a very clear and strong reaction to the D&H respiratory herbs supplement. I wasn't even feeding it full whack but he went absolutely mental for the few days he was on it. It coincided with me keeping forgetting to mix up their mineral mix for a couple of weeks though... the coming off the herbs and going back on the minerals happened at the same time. But the behaviour without the minerals was OK (though slowly getting more fidget) pre-herbs.

I think there might be a calcium or magnesium balance issue underlying some of these things? The main component of the minerals I feed is calcium carbonate.

Though I also don't doubt the fact of food intolerance either, especially given recent experience with those darn herbs. It was like suddenly having a stressed out ginger Tigger, he could not stand still at all.

 

[ycbm]

With our original intolerant mare, it took the form of her having no regard for her own, or anyone else's safety. It took two people, each with a lead rope on a halter to bring her 50 yards in at night, both wearing hats hats, as she would go up if she couldn't go forwards! We think she was worse when she needed a "top up" of the food she couldn't cope with.

I wish I'd kept my hat. At 3, in response to not being allowed to go through me, mine reared and quite deliberately punched a hole right through the front of my hat with a foot. Thank goodness I had one on, or I wouldn't be writing this today!
.

 

[Zuzan]

Just reading this thread out of general interest.

This may be physiological anthropomorphism but I do wonder about the relationship between gut biome and mental health.. it's accepted that the gut biome can affect human mental health and can also be associated with behavioural conditions... is there any reason not to suppose that the same is not also true of equines??

I know from personal experience that introducing fermented food into my own diet reduces my inflammatory response to foods I would otherwise react to (sneeze) .. chocolate, red wine etc. Not suggesting feeding fermented food to equines but paying attention to gut biome I suspect will eventually be better understood as a way of addressing behaviour and other aspects of equine health more generally.

Also noting some people noting linseed as a trigger / intolerance.. is that for all different brands of linseed..? My horse loves one brand but wont touch another and comparing their nutritional info they are quite markedly different.

Also on the beet front.. another bit of physiological anthropomorphism .. sugarbeet is a know trigger for human IBS suffers.

 

[Zuzan]

Regardless of breed, many of these issues have come about since compound feeds became a thing and the art of feeding straights has been almost lost (except for a few of us auld dolls who are still alive).

And using compound feeds makes it impossible to isolate exactly which component/s are causing the reaction.

 

[Zuzan]

Linseed with mine and I'm glad to read that others have also experienced an issue, as its always promoted as a safe, non heating conditioning feed. I thought I was going to die the first time I rode after feeding it - we were out in the middle of the road and it was all I could do to contain the pace to full pelt trot with dragon sound effects. Immediately removed it from his diet but I did try again a few months later with the same result. Not tried again since ?

I wonder if the linseed thing is related to the protein profile of the linseed..? some horses metabolise protein into energy far more easily than others..

 

[KEK]

Super interesting thread. My Connie is itchy, I thought it was a mosquito allergy, he wears a bug rug. He's getting speedibeet, lucern chaff, equimins balancer, vit e, magnesium,salt and a little bit of copra as I can't get linseed. I will stop the speedibeet and see what happens!

 

[FestiveG]

Super interesting thread. My Connie is itchy, I thought it was a mosquito allergy, he wears a bug rug. He's getting speedibeet, lucern chaff, equimins balancer, vit e, magnesium,salt and a little bit of copra as I can't get linseed. I will stop the speedibeet and see what happens!

In your shoes I would stop the lot, for a week minimum, then introduce one item at a time, for a week between introductions

 

[KEK]

In your shoes I would stop the lot, for a week minimum, then introduce one item at a time, for a week between introductions

Thanks, and feed him what instead? he is on ad lib hay but the other 2 need dinner (old standies) and he would need something when they were eating..
I wonder if horse food allergies are like dogs.. have to feed them elimination diet for 8 weeks to properly assess response.

 

[FestiveG]

Thanks, and feed him what instead? he is on ad lib hay but the other 2 need dinner (old standies) and he would need something when they were eating..
I wonder if horse food allergies are like dogs.. have to feed them elimination diet for 8 weeks to properly assess response.

We find it is a shorter time before you can see the improvement. We feed agrobs weisencobs, they are forage based, so it would be unusual for a horse who can cope with grazing to have a problem. They go in a bucket and are dampened down

 

[KEK]

We find it is a shorter time before you can see the improvement. We feed agrobs weisencobs, they are forage based, so it would be unusual for a horse who can cope with grazing to have a problem. They go in a bucket and are dampened down

Thanks, I will see if I can get them here. He's just trashed his rug (again) so it would be really good if it was something fixable..!

 

[Elno]

My youngester (cold blooded breed) was a monster on anything other than hay/haylage. Her problems manifested as bolshiness mostly, but also appeared "wired" somehow, like a kid on a sugar high. My guess was that she didn't tolerate alfalfa and/or molasses, even in very small amounts. Oh, and magnesium had the absolute opposite effect on her.

I currently have an issue with my old wb guy. He's still in ridden work and gets ad lib hay but needs more feed so he doesn't loose muscle. He does very well on alfalfa pellets - I can feed it to him in kilos and he doesn't loose the plot at all. The trouble is, he doesn't like alfalfa ? and I cannot get him to eat enough of it, and the more and longer I feed, the more he leaves.

So... I've tried different hard feeds with...erm...interesting results ? The last one I tried was Aveve Senior mix. Well, let's put it this way - my gentle, sweet dude of a horse completely panicked everytime my friends horse snorted when we were out hacking this tuesday and almost tore my arms off when we cantered, and breaks were... uhm, seriously lacking at times. Not to mention that he got crabby to brush and tack up.
I've also tried a low starch/low sugar mix from a reputable hard feed manufacturer in Sweden (Krafft). Well, on that he piaffed (yes, seriously piaffed, no joke!) two whole miles on a hack while SCREAMING for his buddies until we got back (this is a horse you normally can leave alone in the stable and hack out on his own).

The common ingredient in these feeds is soy. So my best guess right now is that soy sends him bonkers and messes with his stomach.

Will be very interesting to test this theory since as of yesterday he is on a senior nut (also from Krafft) with a far shorter ingredient list and without soy products. Pray for me on our next hack ?

 

[ycbm]

I'm feeding Dengie grass nuts, they are really high in calories and sugar so not suitable for all but a good replacement for cereal and soy sensitive horses needing calories. Also high protein, good for young stock. I add 500ml of vegetable oil.
.

 

[Chippers1]

It's interesting that one of the commonest behaviours we are reporting is to run through things. My Appyx wouldn't dream of doing it when he's on the right food, if anything he's a very submissive horse.
.

Another who had a 'run through you' horse...he was a dragon when fed Ease and excel. Really difficult to bring in, he'd just run in any direction if something (imaginary) spooked him, regardless of where I was! I think Ease and Excel has a lot of soya which may have been the problem. He returned to normal as soon as I stopped feeding it. Currently he's on the smallest amount of grass nuts to get some aloe vera juice into him and a hoof supplement. Grass nuts are so far, in the almost 5 years i've owned him, the only bag of feed he's finished. He's so fussy! Funnily enough he actually liked the ease and excel...