can welsh ponies be dun?

[Lois Lame]

And if you have base colours other than bay, they will look very different. A bay dun and buckskin will look similar but a red dun is nothing like a palomino and a grulla not like a smokey black.

Our knowledge changes as more is discovered about the underlying genetics.

I thought grulla was a smokey black.

 

[splashgirl45]

Im very old so call them all dun, buckskin means an American horse to me , yours is very pretty whatever name we call the colour

 

[Lois Lame]

I thought grulla was a smokey black.

 

[criso]

I thought grulla was a smokey black.

No Grulla is dun on black, also called mouse dun in highlands. Smokey black is a term for cream on black, which visually looks black but has a hidden cream gene. Then people are surprised when their black mare has a palomino or buckskin foal. If it's 2 copies of the cream gene, then it's smokey cream which can look the sane as crenello or perlino.

 

[criso]

View attachment 132103

He's lovely. I'm going to go with Buckskin going through a foal shed. Probably look very different come spring.

 

[darcip]

He's lovely. I'm going to go with Buckskin going through a foal shed. Probably look very different come spring.

He is, thank you

 

[Caol Ila]

Now that we know things about colour genetics, I think it makes sense to modify the Old Skool terminology to adapt it to science. But you also need to communicate.

My PRE mare is nd1, but she looks bay (but she's not as bay as the real bays because there's a lot of weird countershading going on). However, if I need to tell someone else to catch her, "the bay horse with the long mane and a blue rug" gets people to the right horse in the field.

Her sire looks grey but with the nd1 gene. He looked like a very light grey dun as a youngster, but is all greyed out now. Her dam is black. Her damsire was also black. Her son (by a half brother... not planned ) looks exactly like her. His sire is another bay-looking horse with nd1 (so dorsal stripe and all that, but less countershading than my mare), but the damsire is grey.

My Highland gelding is a straightforward grulla/mouse dun/blue dun, depending on what part of the world you're from.

 

[shortstuff99]

View attachment 132103

I'm also going to say Buckskin

Very cute though!

 

[shortstuff99]

Now that we know things about colour genetics, I think it makes sense to modify the Old Skool terminology to adapt it to science. But you also need to communicate.

My PRE mare is nd1, but she looks bay (but she's not as bay as the real bays because there's a lot of weird countershading going on). However, if I need to tell someone else to catch her, "the bay horse with the long mane and a blue rug" gets people to the right horse in the field.

Her sire looks grey but with the nd1 gene. He looked like a very light grey dun as a youngster, but is all greyed out now. Her dam is black. Her damsire was also black. Her son (by a half brother... not planned ) looks exactly like her. His sire is another bay-looking horse with nd1 (so dorsal stripe and all that, but less countershading than my mare), but the damsire is grey.

My Highland gelding is a straightforward grulla/mouse dun/blue dun, depending on what part of the world you're from.

You can see the ND1 on my PRE here by the light muzzle and inside of ears and a sort of caramel bay colour at times.

 

[darcip]

You can see the ND1 on my PRE here by the light muzzle and inside of ears and a sort of caramel bay colour at times.

View attachment 132113

Thank you for the help, she’s gorgeous aswell

 

[Gloi]

I'm not in contact with the people who sold him to me but I have his mum's pedigree and most of they are grey and chestnuts

Without a dun parent he can't be dun, he'll be buckskin. ND1 causes eel stripes and sometimes barring on other colors.
Your boy looks buckskin, likely sooty buckskin.

Sooty | Color Genetics

Sooty (sometimes called smutty) is a modifier that causes black hairs to be mixed into the coat. Generally, the effect is as if someone had dumped a bucket of soot over the horse's head and back. It seems to act as a form of countershading. The dark pigment can also be distributed evenly...

colorgenetics.info

 

[blodwyn1]

This is my section c mare her dam was bay and her sire was palomino. I would say she is buckskin but I would have called her golden dun in the past.

 

[criso]

Without a dun parent he can't be dun, he'll be buckskin. ND1 causes eel stripes and sometimes barring on other colors.

I wasn't ruling dun out completely as it could have been hidden by grey and would a chestnut dun be recognised years ago or just thought to be a weird shade of chestnut.


My previous tb who was standard bay tb had very pronounced countershading which could be mistaken for a dorsal stripe and a light muzzle like shortstuff99's pre. He varied in colour through the year but quite a yellow shade in summer.

 

[criso]

Your boy looks buckskin, likely sooty buckskin

Sooty is progressive over time and i think OP said he was a year old.

He'll probably go through a few changes as his foal coat sheds out and may end up really golden.

@darcip you'll have to post progess pictures so we can see how his colour changes.

 

[darcip]

Sooty is progressive over time and i think OP said he was a year old.

He'll probably go through a few changes as his foal coat sheds out and may end up really golden.

@darcip you'll have to post progess pictures so we can see how his colour changes.

I will do , he went really golden this summer then quite dark in winter.

 

[Caol Ila]

My horse changes with the seasons but you can see the shoulder bars here and counter shading here. Winter, so less pronounced than in summer.

 

[lannerch]

I’m sure he’s buckskin I may be wrong but I do not think dun ever have white legs . My young lady is buckskin with a white leg , she’s always referred to as dun though .

 

[Gloi]

I’m sure he’s buckskin I may be wrong but I do not think dun ever have white legs . My young lady is buckskin with a white leg , she’s always referred to as dun though .

Duns can have white markings like any other horse. It isn't related.

 

[criso]

I’m sure he’s buckskin I may be wrong but I do not think dun ever have white legs . My young lady is buckskin with a white leg , she’s always referred to as dun though .

White markings are not acceptable in Highlands where dun is common whereas Welsh who are more likely to be Buckskin, often have white leg and face markings.

So it could appear that way but it's just the difference in the studbooks and breed standard when it comes to white markings.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I have two Buckskin's (unless corrected by the gene's gurus)Welsh A She is a milky colour in winter - then the middle dark layer comes as seen here then golden in summer coat

connie horse is like buttermilk in winter

 

[2 Dragons]

My section D is buckskin, his dam was palomino and his sire dark bay. His legs are black but lower down he has 4 white socks. His ancestors are a mix of bay, chestnut, palomino, brown and black.

 

[darcip]

Not the best photo but a spring photo update, it seems that he’s going grey now (also off topic but what would you say his body score is?)

 

[Cloball]

There's was definitely a true dun section C stud standing in Wales recently but I think the stud has closed.

 

[Gloi]

Not the best photo but a spring photo update, it seems that he’s going grey now (also off topic but what would you say his body score is?)View attachment 139538

Bonny boy. He's showing as buckskin going grey now

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

As I understand it, traditionally in many breeds horses/ponies which are actually buckskins have been called duns, because people didn't knew that horses can sometimes look confusingly similar to real duns, without carrying the true dun gene. The true dun gene has been bred out of most Welsh lines, however, buckskins are caused by the same cream dilution gene which produces palominos.
Since your pony's dad is palomino, I presume that your pony is actually a buckskin, but his passport still says dun, because some persons continues to hold on to the old habit of that if it looks like a dun, and buckskins have always been called duns, dun it is.

I agree my Welsh A's mum is grey and dad palomino, and she is a Buckskin, this is her after loosing the outer pale layer she has an inner darker coat seen here.

 

[I'm Dun]

Bonny boy. He's showing as buckskin going grey now

Yup. When they grey out it can do funky things to their colour for a while.

 

[Clovercr58]

We have a Welsh d and she’s a chocolate dun

 

[ponynutz]

Hijacking the thread slightly but I have a dun connie. Possibly buckskin because I think connies also can't be true dun but she's very light and I always describe her and think of her as dun.

 

[shortstuff99]

We have a Welsh d and she’s a chocolate dun

Is she tested true dun? As from the pic she looks dark buckskin or possibly bay with ND1.

 

[shortstuff99]

Hijacking the thread slightly but I have a dun connie. Possibly buckskin because I think connies also can't be true dun but she's very light and I always describe her and think of her as dun.

Buckskin