Can you learn to ride at a riding school?

As many people have said, it depends on the RS - if a person has regular riding lessons at, say, Talland or the Yorkshire Riding Centre, I suspect they could learn to ride to quite a reasonable standard.
 
typekitty said:
So basically, one can only 'truly' learn to ride if they fork out for private freelance instruction? That sucks!
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I really really don't think that's true - I do that now on my own horse, but all the basics were put in place through learning at (mostly good) riding schools in the (many!) preceding years. If the basics aren't correct then you are wasting money on a flash instructor. Realistically, the average RS doesn't have loads of ex-GP horses or A grade SJers or Advanced eventers for the punters to learn on - though there are some out there! If you can ride tidily, competently and, above all, effectively on the average riding school horse, the basics will be in place ready to be polished if/when you have the opportunity to have a lesson on something better.
 
OK, then, I'll rephrase a tad, so I come over as less elitist - how many hours a week does a person need to ride for to become proficient and can this be achieved at a RS in group lessons or private ones?

And for all my years of ownership, I haven't ever claimed to be a better rider than anyone, wherever they trained.

The young lad I am currently teaching has come on immeasurably over the few, once-a-week hour-long sessions he has had, so it may be argued he is getting no more than the RS equivalent. However, how much better would he be/how much quicker would he progress if every week he wasn't catching up on the revision before moving on to the next bit! I was asking is it ever possible, riding once a week (OTA) to ever ride well?
 
typekitty said:
So basically, one can only 'truly' learn to ride if they fork out for private freelance instruction? That sucks!
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fadedv said:
More riding school bashing coming I fear :(

There are plenty of people who have never been near a riding school who are rubbish - rubbish riders are not reserved to riding schools! Look on the bright side, at least they are trying to get tuition unlike the average know it all :)
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^^These!

Giggs said:
I don't see the issue with group lessons at all - whilst a private is great now and then to work on something specific, group lessons teach riders to work in groups (obviously) and allows them to learn visually from others, and closer reflects how you would work your own horse (e.g. quiet periods of rest in between work sessions during an hour ride).
I think those with poor views of group lessons in riding schools imagine nose to tail sessions following a lead file. After a rider has learnt the very basics (walk/trot), they should work in open order and learn how to ride a horse in its own space. I'd be horrified if I watched an intermediate/advanced lesson at my centre working as a ride around the school - just makes the horses nappy and creates riders who can't actually control a horse.
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Exactly how I wished I could describe my lessons! I love private lessons, but its just not always possible to have them. In my group now (not one of the highest by any means) we still work in open order, particularly for our warm up where we are expected to w/t/c on each rein without being told specifically what to do at which marker.
 
I think you can learn to start/stop/steer, walk/trot/canter/jump at a RS.

I don't think you can learn to ride correctly, as I cannot imagine that schools have horses schooled to the standard that would be required, mainly due to the cost and partly due to the novices riding them each day.

As for learning 'feel' where DO you learn it? I think it requires a degree of intelligence as well as a responsive horse/horses and good tuition over many years.

So just to chuck a spanner in the works - I don't think everyone CAN learn to ride well, but riding schools don't offer the opportunity to find out. Some will just never 'get it' and some are too ignorant to want to continue learning.

The standard of riding tuition seems to be going downhill in general in the UK, and it's scary. For example, 'riding in an outline' now appears to mean putting the horse's head in the "right" place and keeping it there.
 
But do you need a really highly schooled horse to ride correctly? Fair enough, to learn more advanced school movements, yes, but to ride basic ridden and lateral work correctly? Correctness goes hand in hand with effectiveness - and both can be learned on a RS plod.
 
I'm not talking grand prix dressage horses or grade A showjumpers, but if a horse doesn't respond correctly to only the correct aids then it's not really teaching the rider very much. If the horse doesn't give the correct feel, the rider will never learn it.
 
It definitely depends on the riding school in question. My first one taught me how to rise to the trot, the next taught me how to canter and get back on after a fall, the next taught me more about rider position and how to get more out of a horse and the next taught me to think about getting a horse working correctly and to enjoy jumping.

Although these riding schools varied in quality, the overall experience has left me with experience of riding a multitude of horses and the confidence and ability to get on a horse, assess its way of going and do a certain amount to improve this. I know I have lots more to learn, and I'm sure that when I get my own horse I'll invest in lessons, but I think riding schools have instilled that philospohy in me - you're never the finished product as a rider.

So yes, I have learnt to ride at a riding school. I'm no world beater but I have no qualms about calling myself a competent rider.
 
Further to this, if anyone is into their sports science and has read about the journey from unconscious incompetence to unconscious competence, there is a theory concerning how many hours of dedicated practice it takes to get to this stage (thousands!) - clearly a person who rides their own horse every day has the opporunity to reach the final stage earlier than someone who takes weekly lessons, no matter how good their instructor. Note I say 'has the opportunity to reach' and not 'will reach' - I do agree with Munchkin that not everyone can learn to ride well as I do believe that physical ability (let's not say 'talent', such a perjorative term) and commitment to improving are vital.
 
Munchkin said:
I'm not talking grand prix dressage horses or grade A showjumpers, but if a horse doesn't respond correctly to only the correct aids then it's not really teaching the rider very much. If the horse doesn't give the correct feel, the rider will never learn it.
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Is part of the role of the instructor not to tell the pupil when the horse is giving them the correct feel for the aid? Even a well-schooled horse will give less than their best if they think they can get away with it - I have seen ex-PSG dressage schoolmasters taking the mickey out of pupils.
 
I think you can learn a lot from riding schools - I know I did from mine, and I had a huge amount of fun there too. The only thing I would say is that it is very hard to learn how to educate a horse if you only ride at a school. If you ride a horse once (or even twice) a week it cannot give the same experience as being the sole rider and trainer of your own horse. And I think that being a trainer is an important part of being a rider.
 
Sedgemoor Chaos said:
I'm not sure where the preconception comes from that just because you own your own horse you can ride any better than someone at a RS?!!?.
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Agree with the above. There are many poor riders who own their own horse, have only ever ridden that horse. There are riders from RS that ride different horses every week to a good standard.
Not all RS horses are plods and there are many people who want to own RS horses because they are safe. There is also nothing wrong with just wanting a safe horse, we don't all want to jump 4' ditches or do flying changes all day...and there is no reason why a RS horse couldn't do that anyway!
However you get your horsey fix surly we are all doing it for the love of the horse, regardless of how and where you do it.
 
I don't think that I could ride properly UNTIL I started working at a riding school! I'd had a very naughty pony, followed by a nervous TB, with which I'd done pretty well on at PC, and was a reasonable rider, but working at the stables when I left school and started doing my AI meant riding a vast range of liveries and schooling RC ponies - which taught me to adapt to anything. At 18 I went to an equestrian college to do my AI properly, and even though all the other students had had horses all their lives, I was the one who got put on the "naughty" ones that bucked etc, as the others were only used to their own horses....

Of course you can learn proplerly at a good RC - you can learn the basics at a bad one! I worry more about the kids I see on ponies charging about with parents who neither know or care - they're the ones that never learn.
 
Right I've not read all of the replies yet but......

I've had weekly lessons in a riding school for over 20 years now so I blooming hope you can learn to ride at a riding school because if not I've wasted a heck of a lot of money!

Seriously I think many of the riding school bashers on here would be plesantly surprised if they came and watched the group lesson I ride in. The standard is high, and everyone rides properly, rather than kicking pulling and wobbling.

One of the regulars on "flat week" is a qualified BHSAI and WH judge. We have other instructors join us sometimes for instruction, and lots of exam candidates join us for practice. We also have several people with their own horses in our group.

One of the teenagers who rides with us has recently had some work experience that our instructor helped him to arrange. One of his placements was at a breaking yard, they were so impressed with him that they let him ride a variety of their horses and have offered him a permanent part time job, this isn't some dodgy dealer, this is a yard that has produced very high level competition horses.

Further evidence of the sort of standard of riding in our group is that several of our instructors have allowed members of our group to ride their own horses. Including a HOYS qualified show horse, an intermediate eventer, a grade B showjumper and elementary dressage horse. The YO uses our group to "test" new school horses, so we tend to get decent opportunities to ride horses that aren't "riding school plods" even if they eventually become riding school plods.

I'm not trying to say I'm amazing, I know I still have bags to learn, and that there are limitations to what you can learn is a riding school environment but people really underestimate how much you can learn in a riding school. Most riding school horses are trickier to get a really good tune out of than privately owned horses. If you don't ask properly then they will dismiss you as a numpty and treat you to an hour of "blackpool donkey impressions", but most of them have a lot to offer if you can coax it out of them. You really see how riding school riders compare to private owners when exam candidates come for a practice on the horses they might use for the exams. In fact that is our favourite entertainment, to see a cocky stage two candidate join the group and fall hook line and sinker for the tricks played by the horses with a more advanced sense of humour!

So yes I think you can learn to ride at a riding school, but there are limits to the experience you can gain. There are experiences that it is difficult if not impossible to get in a riding school, but on the otherhand you can gain really good experience at a riding school that your average private owner wouldn't get.

At the end of the day with riding you are ALWAYS learning, whether you are a riding school client or Mark Todd! The day you stop learning is the day you should give up.
 
Munchkin said:
I don't think you can learn to ride correctly, as I cannot imagine that schools have horses schooled to the standard that would be required, mainly due to the cost and partly due to the novices riding them each day.
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So where do you think they get the horses that are used for stage three and four exams??

I'm sure the RS I ride at is not unique in having some horses that are for novices, some that are suitable for most people and some that are only ridden by staff and more advanced clients.

Our YO likes to buy horses that aren't suitable for novices, they start off being ridden by staff and the advanced clients and as their schooling and experience increases they will gradually become suitable for a wider range of clients. She believes that great riding school horses have to be "produced" like a horse doing any other job, good riding school horses aren't brain dead, unresponsive plods! People don't return and pay their money for that sort of ride. The best riding school horses can assess a rider quicker than any instructor and respond accordingly, I know of several that are happy to amble along on the lead rein ignoring the beginner bouncing around and then an hour later be doing half pass or jumping over 3ft.

Giggs said:
I don't see the issue with group lessons at all - whilst a private is great now and then to work on something specific, group lessons teach riders to work in groups (obviously) and allows them to learn visually from others, and closer reflects how you would work your own horse (e.g. quiet periods of rest in between work sessions during an hour ride).
I think those with poor views of group lessons in riding schools imagine nose to tail sessions following a lead file. After a rider has learnt the very basics (walk/trot), they should work in open order and learn how to ride a horse in its own space. I'd be horrified if I watched an intermediate/advanced lesson at my centre working as a ride around the school - just makes the horses nappy and creates riders who can't actually control a horse.
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Agree 100%, we always work in open order on our own initiative, so for example this week I was working on walk to canter transitions and simple changes while someone else was working on shoulder in. We do whatever work we feel we need to do to improve the horse and ourselves, our instructor essentially teaches each one of us individually but in the same school. We go off and warm up then she chats to each of us about how we've assessed the horse and what we want to do with the rest of the lesson before we go off and work on our agreed plan. Then she helps us and shouts encouragement/constructive critisism as we work before doing a group feedback session at the end. We discuss allsorts including what we would do if the horse was our own, for example changing the tack or lunging or whatever.

As you don't generally need 100% of your instructors attention 100% of the time I think private lessons are often a bit of a waste of money when you could have a group or semi private lesson with people of a similar standard.

I think for jumping a group lesson is actually an advantage as you can watch other people and learn from them. Analysing their line or striding or position or whatever and comparing it to other people and your own. I think that can be just as valuable as actually doing the exercise yourself.
 
I used to have a group lesson for 1 hour a week. I then went on to share a pony and was surprised at the poor standard of some of the lucky people who had ponies since they were little and were able to ride every day. I'm no amazing rider but I think I rode a lot better than some of the people I came across with their own horses who had no idea how to ride a leg yield...
 
This comment is about one particular RS and is not a general RS comment. :)

The hosres are in good condition and well cared for but the teaching is bad. Students are not taught the basics. They are taught in a 'ride', you know, everyone trots roud, the person at the front canters to the back etc... If they are jumping everyone stands in the middle while one rider does the jump, and then they swap to the next rider. The horses and ponies repeat the same lessons every week for years but with different riders. The ponies 'know' the lessons inside out. When you watch you can see that thr riders are practically passengers and not really riding properly at all. The riders progess from the beginner class to an intermediate class and then onto the top class.

How on earth would a non-horsey parent know that their child isn't being taught very well? Everything looks well cared for, and the staff are nice, the ponies are happy and the child appears to be progressing. In a way, the child is getting better and yes they can W, T, C and jump.

However if you take one of those pupils and put them on a normal (non RS horse) you can see all the holes in their education and they are gaping. How can someone who jumps 2'9" regularly, not be able to trot a nice circle at E? Or have a complete steering failure in walk? Or not be able to canter unless they're heading back to the stables? Well the answer is because they were on a horse that needs it's rider to tell it what to do and ride properly. Plus it wasn't just following a lesson plan for the 300th time or the pony infront!

This is why I think that private lessons at a really good RS are really worth the extra money when compared with group lessons. :)

ETA. I still have riding lessons on my own horse. :)
 
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It's supposedly the best in my area too. :(

I went to their open day recently as one of their pupils rode my horse a few times and I wanted to see how she was being taught for myself.
 
Yes and no. There are people who have only ridden at riding schools and are very proficient in various spheres, but I notice they usually lack "horse-savvy" for want of a better word. So much of the work is school-based, so they never get to ride, with all the adventures, and responsibilities that go with it, in the big world. For example, I see lots of people from the local (very good) riding schoo, go by. I know, because I've watched them, how well they school in the arena, how advanced they are dressage-wise; but hardly any of them can open the gate onto the nearby bridleway from their horse, or ride bareback if needed. Those are the things that perhaps might be addressed more?
 
It depends on the RS. Where I learnt to ride and now keep my horse on livery there are such a variety of horses for people to ride and to different standards. I learnt to ride as an adult there and as i progressed i took one of the horses out regularly to compete SJ. I could then move on confidently to my own first horse.

There are number of RS horses which the YO competes and usually wins. One horse has recently won a dressage championship with an instructor and is also ridden by beginners on walk outs etc who just sit there and then more experienced clients who can get a tune out of him. These horses are no easy and not plods they hunt and XC but also teach beginners. I agree with the comment that RS horses are made but they also have something from the beginning which makes them suited to the work.

RS are great places for people to learn and if its a good RS then you can learn to ride to a high standard.
 
The riding school my boy is on livery at has regular unaffiliated dressage comps. School horses with riding school clients enter on an equal basis to privately owned horses (usually have a mixture of riding club types and "posh" young horses out for early experience). It's 50/50 as to who gets the placings. (W&T, Prelim, Nov, BE dressage tests up to novice).
 
Up until the age of about 21 most of my riding was done at Riding Schools so I jolly well hope so!! More than that though, I also learnt most of my stable management there too in the days where kids could help out and were actively encouraged to take a practical interest in the stable management side of things.

One RS I went to was very large - although they had a good range of horses and ponies, lessons could be difficult. You could have up to 8 in a group lesson of varying levels - ranging from peeps on the lead rein to others who were competant cantering and jumping and were starting on lateral work. The instructors did their best but its impossible to structure a lesson and provide the right amount of tuition to that many individuals who are at different levels. It wasn't their fault - more the people who used to book people into lessons but I don't feel I progressed very much there.

My next and last RS was brilliant. Small, no more than 4 in a group lesson and the horses and ponies did everything from schoolwork, lunge lessons to more advanced schooling and hacking out. That is where I really developed 'feel' and understand about actually 'working' or 'riding' the horse if that makes sense as opposed to getting it to proceed in the required direction at the required pace but with no thought about 'how' the horse was going or how I could influence this.

So I think the answer is yes. One thing that saddens me slightly now is that as we live in such a litiginous (sp?) society and are heavily burdened with H&S requirements is that RS's probably (I say probably because I haven't been near one in years) stick to the type of horse/pony that they know is rock solid to minimise the risk of incidents. Whilst I understand this, part of the learning process is learning how to deal with quirky or sticky horses - or one's that are just a bit more 'finely tuned' than others. Whilst I'm not suggesting that we throw everyone onto fire breathing bronco's, I do think that a lot of experience, stickability and the ability to 'read' the horse comes from having these experiences as you learn how to deal with different types of horse and how to react in given situations.

Anyway I seem to have written an essay so I'll shut up now :-)
 
Having ridden at riding schools from 6 yrs to 26, then loaning for 4 years before buying, I would say YES I learnt how to ride - I can jump, do lateral movements, ride young/challenging horses and be confident in all paces and fall off safely.
HOWEVER I never learnt to think for myself and work out how to solve a problem. In an RS environment you always have an instructor there to tell you how to solve a problem, what to do when your horse bolts off, naps etc. It is a WHOLE different kettle of fish when you are on your own on your own horse, in the arena or out on a hack and he starts playing up! There is nobody there to tell you to sit up, turn this way or that way etc. You have to work through it yourself and I doubt whether any riding school will ever be able to teach you how to do that.
It's the same principle as having driving lessons I guess - we'd never have any accidents if our instructor was always sitting beside us!

I can only do all of the above things on a horse which already knows how to do them. I wouldn't have a clue how to teach a youngster to do lateral work, to jump etc. Hence I bought a 9 year old horse who had been there and done it! Even then it's taken me 2 years to get to grips with him and his cheeky ways. I also had problems with handling him etc as he was bargy and I probably let him get away with too much at first.

So NO I don't think riding schools are able to holistically teach you to be a good rider. Sure you can learn the mechanics and theory of it, and ways to ride different horses. But you won't ever be able to learn to think independently, to be able to solve any problem that your horse throws at you, because riding schools can't allow you the independence.
 
My grandad said about driving "You pass your test then you learn to drive" which I think is a good analogy for this. I've been riding once a week since I was 7 (im nearly 21) and I'm crap to be honest. Since I've loaned horses I've realised how complex they are and how they differ and the courage needed to ride difficult ones. I mean my riding school is very good and some of their horses are quite hard to ride but I still believe there is only so much you can learn.
 
I learned to ride in a riding school, but my lessons were complemented by being given nearly sole charge of the YO's little section A, so I had a pony to practise on as well.

I did learn to ride in my riding school. I never had group lessons simply because it wasn't worth the money for what eqeated to about 5 minutes of the instructors time.

I don't see the reason for some of the snobbery about people who go to riding schools - okay, if you own your own horse you will learn to ride him very well - is that a good rider? Or is being a good rider being able to ride a variety of different horses effectively? That's what I learned in a riding school and that's what I've been doing my whole life as I ride other peoples horses, not being able to own my own.
 
noblesteed said:
HOWEVER I never learnt to think for myself and work out how to solve a problem. In an RS environment you always have an instructor there to tell you how to solve a problem, what to do when your horse bolts off, naps etc.[...] You have to work through it yourself and I doubt whether any riding school will ever be able to teach you how to do that.
[...]
I can only do all of the above things on a horse which already knows how to do them. I wouldn't have a clue how to teach a youngster to do lateral work, to jump etc.
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But you won't ever be able to learn to think independently, to be able to solve any problem that your horse throws at you, because riding schools can't allow you the independence.
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This, again, depends very much on the school, I think. Ours has "schooling lessons", where the focus is exactly that: learning how to make such decisions. There's generally a small group (3 or 4), working independently of each other, and the RI will pull people aside, ask them why they're choosing certain exercises for that horse, and then advise. The horses in those lessons can vary from very green to schoolmasters.
 
i learnt more having my own pony for about 1yr than about 10 yrs at riding school and the one i went to was one of the best near us
 
ew0855 said:
The riding school my boy is on livery at has regular unaffiliated dressage comps. School horses with riding school clients enter on an equal basis to privately owned horses (usually have a mixture of riding club types and "posh" young horses out for early experience). It's 50/50 as to who gets the placings. (W&T, Prelim, Nov, BE dressage tests up to novice).
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Yes the riding school I go to allows clients to use their horses in any show that is held on site and they are eligable for. So that is dressage, SJ, showing, combined training, xc etc.

The school horses do very well indeed winning all kinds of classes against some very tough competition.
 
Yes, of course you can. At the riding school I manage we teach the basics and follow a structured progression ladder. Once riders are competant enough they are then taught to ride the horse correctly on the bit and progress to lateral work on the flat. They also jump decent fences and are encouraged to compete and often win against open competition. As in all fields, you can only teach some one to ride as welll as they want to learn.
Here are some of our clients competing on our horses- don't look too terrible!:
Dressage:

http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/130910/dr/pages/page_26.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/130910/dr/pages/page_28.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/130910/dr/pages/page_43.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/130910/dr/pages/page_72.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/300710/gr/pages/page_17.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/300710/gr/pages/page_41.html

XC:
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/250710/c4/pages/page_35.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/150810/c1/pages/page_46.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/150810/c2/pages/page_16.html

And SJ:
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/110710/c2/pages/page_14.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/110710/c3/pages/page_55.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/110710/c4/pages/page_19.html
http://www.rpeevents.co.uk/gals/110710/c5/pages/page_49.html

Sorry for the millions but hardly horrific! See much worse riding by Non school clients.
Also, not all riding schools have hairt plods! We have a horse that has been sucessful eventing with Graham Law, a 2* horse, AM dressage horse, Int event horse and all of the horses will work correctly if ridden correctly.
 
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