Can't believe it...A warning to you all.

Haven't had a chance to read all the other replies so I'm sure this has already been suggested. But if you soak his hay for at least an hour but preferably longer, then rinse it and feed it to him you can give him ad lib hay without the calories. You absolutely must ensure he has adequate fibre to keep his hindgut moving.

Exercise wise lots of brisk walking to begin with and no slow steps whether in hand or ridden

Ad lib unsoaked hay or haylage really does pile on the lbs for good doers, the same happened to us a few years ago when naiively I thought I was doing the right thing for my horse.
 
It is not only cobby sorts that can get fat on hay - my old TB was an incredibly good doer and apart from when getting over an illness, had next to no hard feed and had to have his haynet intake weighed to monitor it much to his digust. Good luck with getting a programme sorted and getting his weight down.
 
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Not sure what the score is with Fantasma, wysiwyg and Sirena - poss history, I don't know, but can I point out that she was not the only one that said *feed carrots* yet the other poster (Henryhorn - sorry HH, I am not being horrid, just trying to point something out
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) did not get a battering for her suggestion, and boy she certainly DOES know her stuff
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I hate carrots, full of sugar, empty calories that are akin to a likit, odd one here and there won't hurt but not a daily thing IMO.

To the OP, well done for recognising the probs, walker, ride, he will soon be fine x

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No history at all Weezy, I know neither of the other posters tbh, I did not notice that HH had posted about carrots and agree that yes, she generally does know her stuff, but would still have said the same thing even to HH.
 
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A fit, active horse who has put on a few extra pounds over the holidays (like Antifaz) Pic below....

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...is in no grave danger. HOWEVER, the OP has said her horse is VERY fat indeed and MUCH fatter than in her sig photo. Therefore your advice that 'he will be fine' is misguided.

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Looking absolutely fab PF!
 
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Haven't had a chance to read all the other replies so I'm sure this has already been suggested. But if you soak his hay for at least an hour but preferably longer, then rinse it and feed it to him you can give him ad lib hay without the calories.

[/ QUOTE ] See my reply and link above to the new research on the efficiency of soaking hay. Not always as effective at removing calories/sugar as most people assume!
 
Just read that really interesting article TGM, it does say that the initial hay was soaked for 30 mins only.

It goes on to say that hay soaked for extended periods looses its nutritional value and would not meet the requirements of the horse, so, from this I would surmise that soaking for 24 hours brings the WSC levels down below 10%, the safe level. I would always recommend to anyone soaking hay for this length of time to feed a vit/min supplement to make up the shortfall. I do think that people are loathe to soak hay for the correct amount of time and I also agree that they do not use enough water - the hay needs to be completely submerged and then drained as much as possible.
 
QR
OP - first of all well done for seeing that this is a problem. As you know it is very dangerous for a horse to be overweight, so it is good that you are addressing this issue.

Although 12 months without hard feed may seem harsh, remember that a horse takes much longer to lose weight than to put it on. If you look at the WHW link that someone posted earlier you'll see that they reckon it takes roughly three times as long to rehabilitate an obese horse compared to an emaciated one. Your horse almost certainly doesn't need hard feed anyway as a good doer, so I wouldn't worry too much about cutting it out. Hay soaked for 24 hours mixed with straw will keep the gut moving. Multiple small holed nets also good for slowing greedy guts down!

If you are rugging your horse - I suggest getting the rug off. I am only down the road from you, and hardly any of the horses here are rugged. As long as the horse has access to shelter, it will be ok.

Also, why not look into sectioning your turnout off with electric fencing - tricky at this time of year perhaps if things are getting muddy, but a definite one for spring / summer. You could either do a racetrack or get creative and make a maze, but the basic idea is to restrict the amount of grazing the horse can access and to get the horse moving about more, as they will have to go the long way round to get to water / forage.

Other than that - lots of long power walks are the way to get weight off.

Good luck. It is very difficult, but it can be done and your horse will thank you for it. If you can stick to it this time in 12 months you will have a different horse - and I bet he'll have a lot more energy in the school too
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WHW have got a free DVD about condition scoring and weight loss, which they will send to you if you call them. They can probably also give you some advice on the phone too.
 
Gosh you lot get worked up about silly things !
The poster thought she was being helpful warning about how easily it is for a horse to get overweight, yet according to the replies you would think she had roasted him alive.
Where did you all get so knowleagable, I'd love to know, as the majority of people using these forums appear to be DIY livery owners who from my experience come in all levels of expertise.
The horse is fat and the owner has taken some steps to overcome it, at least give her the credit for that. I suggested more excercise and a few carrots in a bucket to keep him happy, apparently it's no longer acceptable to feed them, well tough, I've never yet had a horse go ill on carrots and the amount suggested (three at most perhaps) is hardly going to contribute much to his diet compared to say haylage!
Oh for goodness sake get over yourselves, you sound so pompous...
There are dozens and dozens of ways of keeping horses, some people stuff theirs with hard feed, others with none, yet the vast majority appear to survive to old age and not looking too badly on their diets either.
The basic feed rules remain the same according to most horses, feed according to type/size/condition and work expected. Feeding something succulent is obviously now not approved of by many but you know what, it won't stop me! Or the vast numbers who buy at the Equine Fair by the sackful every year either.
remember that other feed rule FEED IN MODERATION , like everything else, we'll have to agree to disagree..
 
I think that some were just trying to point out that carrots are very high in sugar, so not the best token feed to give in this case. People do buy carrots by the sack-full, and put carrots in every feed, but in a lot of cases that's not a great idea.
 
Sorry, Sirena, that article doesn't cover the research in as much detail as other ones I have read. Posted that link in haste as was getting ready for school run!

This one is better:

http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/news/2009/07/047.shtml

and shows that some of the samples were soaked for as long as 16 hours and that "Very few samples reached below 10 per cent of water-soluble carbohydrates despite prolonged soaking."

This is the quote about nutritional values from the first article (my capitalisation):

"The researchers also found that by soaking hay for extended periods of time, a substantial amount of OTHER nutrients, vitamins and minerals can be lost, meaning that the hay may no longer meet the nutritional requirements of the animal."

By 'other', they mean other than the sugars that the rest of the article refers to, ie the hay loses vitamins, minerals, etc., so supplementation may be necessary.
 
Some info re carrots and sugar content..
Carrots on average contain 4.7g per 100g.
Hay contains 10.5% per 100g
Haylage contains 9.8% per 100g..
So sugar content of no, which is giving your horse the most sugar!!
(taken from one of the main feed merchant's info pages..)
 
I guess the thing is with sugar-phobes that carrots are heavy and that you get a lot more bulk of hay in 100g
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I am not disagreeing with you, I feed carrots when I buy them - not all the time though. I took to tipping bags of them on the snow a few weeks back due to lack of grass, and the horses seemed to be getting very bored with lack of juicy stuff to eat (all turned out with hay btw). Can't say I noticed any change in their behaviour, or a sudden explosion on their waistlines.
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To to OP. You are obviously onto this issue, so don't stress too much. Cut out feed and remove rugs would be my (amateur
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) advice. We like to make our fatty shiver to get his weight down before spring kicks in
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On this thread? I don't think so, but feel free to point me to the post you mean.

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Actually PF I think there was pretty considerable mocking and insulting of Fantasma after her initial post - comments along the lines of "fantasy land", "rubbish advice" "talks bollox and gives out duff info" etc etc.

I don't personally agree with Fantasma's opinion on the matter but I can perfectly see why she got wound up after comments like that - there was no need on behalf of Sirena and "wysiwyg" to be so rude - not that that excuses Fantasma's subsequent rudeness either of course but I don't think you're being fair at all by implying that Fantasma is the only poster being offensive or name-calling, or that people who "actually know what they are talking about" don't resort to insults and mockery.
 
HH, thats really interesting, is that dry or wet weight do you know? purely out of interest just trying to get it right in my head (as owner of a now not so fatty)
 
QR
My vet said I must never give a carrot to my EMS pony. He got quite excited when I said surely one or two wouldn't hurt.
 
QR - Haven't read all of the posts so will just answer to OP.

I know it can be very hard to keep the weight off - my horse puts it on easily - but has not gained too much whilst having 5 weeks off. She is only fed a handful of hifi good doer with carrots and her supplements and 4/5 wedges of hay a day (which is soaked in the summer.) Try not to be guilted into feeding ad lib hay - some horses just can't eat that much. There was a post a little while back about rachel(??) and her pony doug which had several people telling her he should be getting ad lib hay and she was under feeding him but honestly you will know how much your horse can eat without putting on too much weight and you've just got to trust that you know whats best for him and you would know if he had lost too much weight. Trial and error - you'll work it out.
 
SummerXstarsX

The simple answer to your horse's weight is this.....

Horses require a certain amount of energy to keep them alive and functioning. This basic level is referred to as a 'maintenance' diet. Enough to support life without loss or gain of weight.

Any factors which cause the horse to use more energy than it gets from its diet, or which cause stresses on the animal, such as work/weather conditions/ambient temperature/environment...require a greater level of input. This is expressed as 'above maintenance'.

The clever bit is working out what your horse requires for maintenance, what the energy drains are, and what is required above maintence to compensate.

I have several items of information on feed values, and formulae for working out amounts fed, which I will copy and PM to you.

Feeding horses according to workload and external influences is a science. However the old way was to feed 'by eye' and this simple meant keeping a good eye, and your hands, on the horse on a daily basis and, taking all things into account, feed accordingly.

This required a working knowledge of what a horse should look like when in correct condition relative to its lifestyle. This is a skill which is, sadly for horses, lacking in these times of obese horses being deemed acceptable by show judges.

There is no shame in being a novice as long as you couple it to an enquiring mind.
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On this thread? I don't think so, but feel free to point me to the post you mean.

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Actually PF I think there was pretty considerable mocking and insulting of Fantasma after her initial post - comments along the lines of "fantasy land", "rubbish advice" "talks bollox and gives out duff info" etc etc.

I don't personally agree with Fantasma's opinion on the matter but I can perfectly see why she got wound up after comments like that - there was no need on behalf of Sirena and "wysiwyg" to be so rude - not that that excuses Fantasma's subsequent rudeness either of course but I don't think you're being fair at all by implying that Fantasma is the only poster being offensive or name-calling, or that people who "actually know what they are talking about" don't resort to insults and mockery.

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It appeared to me that Fantasma got wound up before S and W questioned her knowledge, and I personally didn't see any need for her get so bent out of shape, but I see your point and stand corrected.
 
Don't worry about not feeding hard food. I've never fed my naturally fat 16.2 horse hard food in 3 years. Some horses just don't need it.

I do disagree with putting a horse on a walker for an hour every day. Just don't think it is very good for a horse to be going in tight circles for that length of time.

OP - BTW my horse also got a bit fat over the snowy period just from eating hay - happens very easily.
 
to the OP:

I feel your pain. Both mine piled on a few extra lbs over the snowy period, and they're out 24/7 unrugged. All I'd done was give them some hay! and of course, no exercise (we couldnt get out of the yard!)
It's a steep learning curve when you have one prone to weight gain, but you quickly learn.
I'm now harsh on mine. As soon as that grass grows it's muzzle time, along with lungeing daily and restricting the grazing area. Mine currently have a path around the ouside of the field so they have to walk lots. When one's alone I use a trickle feeder ball with a few low calorie nuts in it. Maybe even some carrots finely diced.

A farrier once turned to me and said (regarding a small obese native) "that would have to walk MILES for a blade of grass in the wild and here's you letting him have it as and when... he;d live for weeks just on a bare patch of grass". The advice given was to mix straw with soaked hay and give it in small rations in a small holed haynet. It did the job perfectly, along with alot of lungeing at a brisk walk. I get lots of comments about mine being muzzled most of the year but fact is our grass is FAR superior and too good for horses, and it has to be restricted if you want a healthy animal.
I'd also listen to what HH has to say, she has some fabulous looking animals that are out 24/7 on ACRES of grass.
 
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I mean how can anyone properly judge the ideal weight and condition of a horse by looking at a picture like that,

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bcause if you "know" horses then he is over weight.....

as for your suggestion of carrots...do you know what sugar/fructin levels there are in a carrot?

no, i didnt think so, or you wouldnt have suggested it.......
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There is about 3 gms of sugar in a 72 gm carrot and about 10 gms of sugar in 100 gms of hay (obviously the horse eats a lot more hay than that.) I'm no expert but there are a lot worse things you could be feeding the horse IMO. Obviously it would be better not to feed anything extra and unneccesary if the horse is already obese but once the horse has lost some weight I can see no reason why he wouldn't be able to have a carrot in his feed as part of his diet to maintain his new slimmer self.
 
I would stop the hard feed, absolutely crazy to give the feed he is having for the work he does ! even when you are riding for longer, its not enough to warrant that performance feed. Its a wonder he hasn't got azoturia. Do you think he might be lazy because he is overweight ? I'd get some spurs on, use them sensibly, you could give him something suitable for laminitics like Happy Hoof, Dengi Hi Fi Light, my horse has Happy Hoof and soaked hay, until the nights get lighter and rides longer, where I add Spillers High Fibre cubes, increasing and decreasing depending on grazing, he is muzzled, turned out during day in winter, over night in summer
 
its really hard when you have a good doer and not been able to ride much due to weather etc
i too would soak (12-24hrs) and rinse his hay and give it mixed with straw in 2 small holed nets. i would feed 1.5% of his weight per day and factor in any grass he may be getting too.
i would give him a pellet balancer like low cal
and no grass if poss!
slow long work episodes are good for fat burning- be careful of doing fast work/jumping whilst he is so fat as it puts a lot of strain on the legs and heart!
 
Man this thread got a bit nasty!!

OP - I feel your pain. I have a HW cob who was obese when I bought him. I did manage to get him to a good weight through diet and exercise.

Unfortunately like you I struggled to keep his weight down over the last month or so - due to the snow ours were turned out on hardstand and fed haylage - only because we couldn't for the life of us get hold of any hay. We also couldn't ride or even lunge during this period.

Like you I also feed power and performance but only when he's competing and not because he's lacking energy as such but because he can get a bit bored/distracted etc - I also rode in spurs for those interested which doesn't help so schooling is the main focus now.

Mine doesn't really get a hard feed - small scoop of hifi light mixed with top spec lite (excellent for helping them lose weigh), some biotin and a probiotic.

If you can soak and double net his hay - that really worked for me. Exercise as much as you can but I know you can't always dedicate as much time as you'd like. Full clip and under rugging is also worth a try.

You will get there - it's just a lot of hard work!!

Here is my boy in the summer - does he look like a HW cob much in this pic? (I actually think he was a bit on the slim side tbh!)

DSC04671.jpg
 
At least you finally noticed that your horse was very fat Summer Star and are trying to do something about it now. I have a real bug bear about fat horses. I like mine to have a little covering but I am very keen on not allowing them to get fat. Exercise is your friend and I would be cutting out hard feed for the for see able future. That horse doesnt need any extra. I would be soaking the hay for at a minimum of 12 hours.

I dont agree with most of what Fatasma (may not be the right spelling?) has said. Overweight horses are at great risk of developing dangerous conditions so with Summer Star acting now this lessens the risks. Sirena and JM07 (I cant remember your new name beginning with w) were right in pointing out the inaccuracies with Fatasmas post although their responses could have been a bit more tactful.
 
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