Amaranta
Well-Known Member
Have pm'd it to you
Cant help him no more
- Thread starter traceyann
- Start date
Have pm'd it to you
traceyann
Well-Known Member
Thankyou to everyone who has given me support over this. Its breaking my heart but must do whats best.
hairycob
Well-Known Member
Traceyann,
You have tried so hard, whatever your decision you mustn't feel bad. If it comes to it remember - better the horse is dead than a person is.
You have tried so hard, whatever your decision you mustn't feel bad. If it comes to it remember - better the horse is dead than a person is.
scarymare
Well-Known Member
^^^^This
nicolenlolly
Well-Known Member
I have followed this not really knowing what to say to you other than best of luck. I think that others whilst giving their opinions may have made you feel guilty and I don't think that you should feel this way. You have certainly done more than I think I could have done and unless you have an endless pit of money, there does come a time when you have to draw the line. You have been patient and yes he is young BUT there are so many horses out there that need loving homes that wouldn't behave like that I think if I were you I would be inclined to spend my money on them. Let's hope you have the answers that you need as soon as possible xx
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
From reading all this, it sounds like you've explored numerous avenues and rang lots of people. It doesn't sound at all as though this is a rash, selfish decision. Leaving the horse at the vets for three days gives them a lot of time to try and find the problem. I think you deserve a round of applause and a hug.xx
Cortez
Tough but Fair
Couldn't have said it better myself.....^^^^^^
Tammytoo
Well-Known Member
Herts05
Well-Known Member
traceyann, having read all the posts that followed on from my original one I think that PTS (your original question) sounds like the best solution.
I do disagree (sorry to say) with sending him to a sanctuary!
Well done for your bravery.
I do disagree (sorry to say) with sending him to a sanctuary!
Well done for your bravery.
brighteyes
Pooh-Bah
I can't help feeling the vets might just be 'taking your money' 
A behaviourist/specialist in Iberians will tell you if the problems stem from pain. Just my opinion.
As to whether to PTS, it's not my call.
A behaviourist/specialist in Iberians will tell you if the problems stem from pain. Just my opinion.As to whether to PTS, it's not my call.
traceyann
Well-Known Member
Im so deeply upset my little horse has reared at one of the grooms and caught her in the face she required stitches. He did it this morning iv just been down to see if he okay and the vet just told me god i feel so guilty and angry at the same time she had no hat on or gloves even though they know why hes there this sounds bad but will i get sued for this. He under constant sedation now but he still manage a neigh at me. He looks so scared iv got tears my eyes now i cant cope with this
ChesnutsRoasting
Well-Known Member
Oh goodness, what a nightmare for you. Try not to worry about being sued, thats the least of your immediate worries. He's just got to the vets and was bound to be stressed by it, he's now had a sedative and will be away the fairies and now be manageable to have his tests. I would take the advice of ringing the experts mentioned, immediately and get their opinion - if anything just to reassure you. I wish all the best.
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
You poor thing!
Did it happen at the vets yard? If so, he was there to investigate reasons why he is he behaving so dangerously, and I presume that you have told them everything, then I can't see why you could be sued really, and even if you were, your third party insurance is for this, so don't worry. You'd only really have to feel guilty if you hadn't told them about the horse. (I do understand why you do though..)xx I wouldn't think for a moment that the vets were just taking your money. This has gone past the stages where it is a simple behavioural issue, people are getting hurt!
As for all those "wittering" for want of a better word, about special breed people, yes each breed is special and does have characteristics, but at the end of the day a horse is a horse, and in every breed, now and again, you get something that may have issues. Horses aren't machines, a breed of horse is not like a type of car - all the same.. From what I can gather, this horse had behaved like this at the stud (which probably had experience of the breed, no?) and at the OP's trainer's yard. Its not just one person struggling...
Over the years, twice in my life I've heard of/seen horses that behaved like this, and it was down to a brain tunmour. No behaviourist or special breed person could have altered the behaviour of those horses, and they had to be PTS. Sometimes it is the only solution.
OP hope that you're ok. Do you have people around you for support too?
Did it happen at the vets yard? If so, he was there to investigate reasons why he is he behaving so dangerously, and I presume that you have told them everything, then I can't see why you could be sued really, and even if you were, your third party insurance is for this, so don't worry. You'd only really have to feel guilty if you hadn't told them about the horse. (I do understand why you do though..)xx I wouldn't think for a moment that the vets were just taking your money. This has gone past the stages where it is a simple behavioural issue, people are getting hurt!
As for all those "wittering" for want of a better word, about special breed people, yes each breed is special and does have characteristics, but at the end of the day a horse is a horse, and in every breed, now and again, you get something that may have issues. Horses aren't machines, a breed of horse is not like a type of car - all the same.. From what I can gather, this horse had behaved like this at the stud (which probably had experience of the breed, no?) and at the OP's trainer's yard. Its not just one person struggling...
Over the years, twice in my life I've heard of/seen horses that behaved like this, and it was down to a brain tunmour. No behaviourist or special breed person could have altered the behaviour of those horses, and they had to be PTS. Sometimes it is the only solution.
OP hope that you're ok. Do you have people around you for support too?
Tinseltoes
Well-Known Member
I agree call the experts for advice.Hope everyone involved is ok.
touchstone
Well-Known Member
Traceyann, try not to worry about getting sued, I'm sure that the vets themselves are covered for handling dangerous/difficult animals, and if they knew your horse had issues it was really up to them to keep themselves as safe as possible. On the positive side it will have given them a chance to see just what your horse does, so might help them in understanding what could be physically affecting him.
You really sound at the end of your tether over all this, but at the end of the day just bear in mind that we can only ever do our best and no more, and sometimes we still don't get the result that we'd like at the end of it. xx
You really sound at the end of your tether over all this, but at the end of the day just bear in mind that we can only ever do our best and no more, and sometimes we still don't get the result that we'd like at the end of it. xx
Luci07
Well-Known Member
I think that is a little unfair. There are people, who have iberians and experience and recommended people to help as the last resort. Having read all the posts, It seems clear to me that the OP has tried pretty much everything and in HER position, and for HER peace of mind I think that is a good idea - then she can never ask herself if she did enough.
As for the girl who needs stitches. I am really sorry for her. The caveat is that the whole reason he is at the vets is that he is unpredictable and the warnings were clearly stated. If he was behaving, then he would not have been at the vets in the first place.
I have never -fortunately - known a horse like this. The nearest I had was a loan horse who had been so messed up he lost the plot when jumping and really really tried to hurt the rider. Same horse, same competition venue, dressage - complete and utter angel. (all normal checks were done when I took him on). That is the closest I have ever come to having a horse geniunely wish to hurt me so I do understand how OP feels.
You really have tried your best. One way or the other you are near the end of this journey. He either manages to take the chance you are trying to offer him or is put out of his misery. Good luck OP.
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
I would not PTS, but then again i like challenging horses.
I hope the vets can get to the root of the problem and then you can make a decision based on what they find.
I do believe that there are some horses which need experienced confident and kind handling and are too often PTS because the owners arent experienced and confident enough to help the horse though its issues.
Good luck to you and more importantly the horse.
I hope the vets can get to the root of the problem and then you can make a decision based on what they find.
I do believe that there are some horses which need experienced confident and kind handling and are too often PTS because the owners arent experienced and confident enough to help the horse though its issues.
Good luck to you and more importantly the horse.
mulledwhine
Well-Known Member
You really are between a rock and a hard place
He is obviously finding life s big ordeal and is getting in first before anyone can hurt him , poor thing.
I think they only way you cam help him ( if there is no physical reason) is to pin point what he is so afraid of, only then can you move forward.
He needs a serious injection of confidence, and I would exhaust all expert avenues.
Good luck xxx
He is obviously finding life s big ordeal and is getting in first before anyone can hurt him , poor thing.
I think they only way you cam help him ( if there is no physical reason) is to pin point what he is so afraid of, only then can you move forward.
He needs a serious injection of confidence, and I would exhaust all expert avenues.
Good luck xxx
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
As much as I agree with you, in this case I'm not sure I would even try too find out what the problem is, this horse is clearly very,very dangerous and it makes no difference what the horses problem is, if he kills someone they won't be any less dead if he later turns out to have had brain tumur or something. Would you still advise kind experienced handling (which I'm sure the OP has anyway)or specialist trainers after someone has died?
Op has tried and tried with this but sadly you have to draw the line somewhere. In some cases it can almost become an ego trip to try and succeed when others have failed. I was in a similar position with one of mine recently and its so hard to know when to say enough is enough.
All the best to the OP and what ever else happens at least you tried. The next one will be hopefully be different.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I very much do not direct this at you, OP, and I am deeply sorry for you and the horse, and apreciate that you have tried your best to help and right a wrong that is not of your doing at all, but this is just another in a long series of disasterous outcomes for Spanish horses in the wrong hands. People see PRE's in Spain and think "Beautiful, fairytale horses: stallions behaving perfectly, always obedient, quiet and at one with the rider. This is my dream horse! I, too can ride the wind", then get their dreamhorse home and discover they cannot handle it. Spanish horses dorequire experienced, often FIRM handling. They are not quiet cobs, they do not generally respond to "loving" handling, or the English "way". I have now rescued 8 Spanish horses from awful situations (won't bore you with the details), all started out with the best of intentions. PLEASE don't buy Spanish horses without thoroughly investigating the breed, it can end badly - usually for the horse, whose only crime was to be beautiful and desirable.
lastchancer
Well-Known Member
Interesting post this, I have no experience with this type of horse but I can imagine it's a bit like a newly passed 17yo driver buying a Lamborghini, except of course the horse is a sentient beast who then gets passed from pillar to post when it all goes wrong. I think in this case though the OP was trying to pick up the pieces after the horse was messed up.
Bubbles
Well-Known Member
OP, I am so sorry for you - this horse has now had 5 people injured or in your case in great danger of serious injury. Yes an expert handler might be able to turn him round, but he will never IMO be trustworthy, and not every professional wants to put their neck of the line to earn their bread and butter. The vets are obviously taking his situation very seriously if they are keeping him sedated. Fingers crossed that you get some answers from the vet, let them be the ones to help guide your decision. All the best, please do let us know how you get on.
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
Yes i would. But that is me and my opinion and whilst it will be greatly different to a wide cross section of the public, I feel that If he is Healthy (no presence of a tumour) then he should be given the opportunity with experienced people who know what they will be taking on and hopefully improve.
I dont expect anyone to agree with me, but its my feelings and my opinions - and we are all entitled to our own thoughts.
There are animals that are pts/killed though no fault of their own. Animals like children are a product of their environment, something somewhere in his health/life has gone wrong. Hopefully it can be rectified.
There is a reason, a deep seated reason as to why the horse is behaving like this and I do feel that if the vets can get to the root of the problem then he could still have a future - perhaps not with current owner - who knows?
Decisions depend on the vets findings. Should it be a tumour the kindest thing is to let the horse go.
juliag
Well-Known Member
But what happens when you have finished with it Dancing queen? when you sell it on as sorted? The reason why I ask is because I have a rather horrible secret which for the first time ever I will share.
About 20 yrs ago I sold my beautiful darling Arab gelding for a 15hh mare called poppy, God knows why! She was stunning to look at and had a good jump. I quickly realised she was too much for me (I am a qualified BHSAI, and was used to getting on friends problem horses) but there was something about her. She had zero respect for humans or any thoughts for her own safety. She thought nothing of rearing up and throwing herself over backwards. This progressed to napping backwards to a wall and rearing up , crushing rider against the wall. It became impossible to do any kind of ridden work with her at all, so I got help out with her. lots of it. We had trainers mounting her and when she wouldnt move away from the gate at all they questioned whether she had actually been broken! We had vets, back men, teeth checked and all the time she just got worse and worse. As I said total disregard for her own safety as much as anything else. Some people told me to shoot her others said put her in a sale, others said ''try so and so or so and so. One day I decided to lead her out and then mount when I thought she was far enough away to nap back to the yard. This worked ...... or so I thought. We got out had half an hour of a lovely hack and was walking back down the country lane back towards home..... when she stopped. I could hear a car coming behind us but he saw us in plenty of time and stopped 100 yrds or so away from us. Her ears were flicking backwards and forwards and I could see her trying to see the car. She started to nap backwards until she was almost right up to the car. The driver got out to see if he could help me when she positioned herself over the bonnet , reared and came over backwards crushing me on the bonnet and sending me through the windscreen. I broke many bones and cant remember much in the immediate days after the event. Whilst I was in hospital without my knowledge my husband sent the mare to a local dealer , he sold it striaght on to a family.
A couple of months later there was a headline in a local newpaper. A 12 yr old girl had been killed whilst out on her new horse, a 15hh bay mare called poppy. the two of them had been hacking down a bridlepath just off a main road. The mare napped backwards about 50 yrds and came out onto the road into the path of a lorry. Both mare and child were killed instantly.
I am so sorry to share this. It is my horrible secret. The mare should have been put to sleep. I was an experienced adult rider, an instructor. Have faith in what you feel, dont let the fluffy bunnies make you feel guilty. And before those of you criticise my husband for selling her to the dealer, dont! he lost a huge amount of money on this mare selling her on for £300 meat money as he couldnt bear for me to have anything more to do with her. He did what he thought was right to save his wife and mother of his 2 young children. The dealer knew the mares problems as we had used their outdoor school with the other trainers trying to ride her. In fact for a while we kept her at livery at the dealers yard so we had access to their facilities. So yes the dealer knew every problem the mare had!
traceyann
Well-Known Member
I did not save this horse because he looked good i saved him because i felt sorry for him And still do you cant like a horse covered in poo skin and bone and covered in cuts. I dont blame him all for this morning hes scared and they took a broom in to brush his bed back. Any type of whip stick or rope he explodes but the vet knew this. Iv been on the phone to emma and james and will phone richard tomorrow. lm lucky at the moment i have my own land so im the only one who goes in the field but say that changes i end up in livery yards and someone falls in the field or goes out with a stick it doesnt bear thinking about. I think some horse just cant be helped and sadly i think he one of them.
Caledonia
Well-Known Member
Yes, sadly you are right. Especially a breed as sensitive as this. He's probably gone too far in his mind to fix. Damaged horses never forget.
So sorry.
Mince Pie
Well-Known Member
I think there is a difference between 'challenging' and 'downright dangerous' and unfortunately the OP's horse seems to come under the latter category.
OP I would also PTS. People are getting seriously hurt by this horse and I think it is just luck that no one has been killed yet
fizzer
Well-Known Member
JuliaG what a sad post. I am sure many of us have had regrets about how we have handled situations regarding "problem horses" .
OP has to live with what she decides so she must do what she thinks is best. Good luck.
OP has to live with what she decides so she must do what she thinks is best. Good luck.
Dancing Queen
Well-Known Member
HuliaG - what a shame and sad post.
i rescued a horse that was due to pts after putting her rider in a coma and she was classed as dangerous and feral.
She came right with time and care and proper handling but i never sold her on and i wouldnt have ever contemplated selling her. She stayed with me until her final days. I never fully trusted her around other people, but i trusted her with me implicitly and i think thats one reason why we clicked. People who had dismissed her as dangerous were quite surprised at our bond. All i am stating is my experience and that just sometimes there can be a 'happier ending'
There could be a future for him.. the only person however who can make that decision is the OP.
The OP is in a situation now where she needs to make a decision based on the advice from the vets and her own feelings. And no one should chastise or chide her for her decision.
i rescued a horse that was due to pts after putting her rider in a coma and she was classed as dangerous and feral.
She came right with time and care and proper handling but i never sold her on and i wouldnt have ever contemplated selling her. She stayed with me until her final days. I never fully trusted her around other people, but i trusted her with me implicitly and i think thats one reason why we clicked. People who had dismissed her as dangerous were quite surprised at our bond. All i am stating is my experience and that just sometimes there can be a 'happier ending'
There could be a future for him.. the only person however who can make that decision is the OP.
The OP is in a situation now where she needs to make a decision based on the advice from the vets and her own feelings. And no one should chastise or chide her for her decision.
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Holly Hocks
Well-Known Member
I can't answer the problem in any way. I don't have that level of experience. But if I were in your shoes OP and I had read the above post, I wouldn't feel guilty if to PTS. JuliaG's story is horrendous and it wouldn't be fair to pass the horse on. However, I think your experience is different to the above in that I think you said that your horse is great to ride, it's the dealing on the floor which is a problem. It sounds like it could be riggy behaviour, and if nothing is found at the vets, then I would be tempted to try one of the professionals who has been mentioned on this forum to help you out. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.