Canter is too exciting... thoughts?

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
I'm just wanting general thoughts really... how do you approach training a horse that find a canter works ridiculously exciting?

It's getting there in a two steps forward one step back kind of fashion but just want to ask what others' approach to this kind of horse is.

I want to start with a more general discussion so won't detail specifics of what The Beast is doing just yet. I'm pretty convinced she's balanced enough to be ready to canter now though so I think it is genuine over-excitement rather than rushing around because she's unbalanced. The canter itself is lovely and she isn't rushing or running off in the canter. Or even in the trot after actually... She's just... bonkers? In anticipation of the next go.

Anyway. I would be grateful for any thoughts in general! My current plan is just keep asking, resettling as best as can be done and asking again. Keeping the canters long enough to reward a nice transition but short enough to avoid any temptation for her to tank off.
 

Lois Lame

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 May 2018
Messages
1,616
Visit site
I'll preface my suggestion with 'I don't know what I'm talking about,' but might it be better to keep the canters fairly short? This way, she keeps her balance better and the many transitions are beneficial.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
27,538
Visit site
I rode one like this a while back. I kept the canter work reasonably simple as she hadn't done a lot, but added complexity to the trot work each time afterwards.
This one would scuttle and rush in trot after cantering , anticipating the next go so we worked a lot on lateral work and endless bending lines so that she gave herself back to me and concentrated on the task in hand. I rode the downward transition into a leg yield, for instance and then carried on from there. Eventually she stayed more connected and relaxed.

I wouldn't canter again until she had accepted the trot work fully so sometimes we didn't get a lot of cantering done but I felt that it was important not to let her continue the habit of getting wound up ;)
 

Wheels

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 September 2009
Messages
5,695
Visit site
I rode one like this a while back. I kept the canter work reasonably simple as she hadn't done a lot, but added complexity to the trot work each time afterwards.
This one would scuttle and rush in trot after cantering , anticipating the next go so we worked a lot on lateral work and endless bending lines so that she gave herself back to me and concentrated on the task in hand. I rode the downward transition into a leg yield, for instance and then carried on from there. Eventually she stayed more connected and relaxed.

I wouldn't canter again until she had accepted the trot work fully so sometimes we didn't get a lot of cantering done but I felt that it was important not to let her continue the habit of getting wound up ;)

This pretty much, short canter and then put them to work in trot! Shoulder in on a circle fig 8 or something similar then once they are listening then can canter again.

For horses that rush in canter then short canters and back to a very slow trot and then canter again from the slow trot once settled.. repeat
 

Slightlyconfused

Go away, I'm reading
Joined
18 December 2010
Messages
10,833
Visit site
I rode one like this a while back. I kept the canter work reasonably simple as she hadn't done a lot, but added complexity to the trot work each time afterwards.
This one would scuttle and rush in trot after cantering , anticipating the next go so we worked a lot on lateral work and endless bending lines so that she gave herself back to me and concentrated on the task in hand. I rode the downward transition into a leg yield, for instance and then carried on from there. Eventually she stayed more connected and relaxed.

I wouldn't canter again until she had accepted the trot work fully so sometimes we didn't get a lot of cantering done but I felt that it was important not to let her continue the habit of getting wound up ;)

Yep this is what we do with spotty and its slowly helping.

He is a lot more relaxed coming back into trot and has a brain nearly from the downward transition.
 

windand rain

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2012
Messages
8,517
Visit site
Interesting take on preventing exciting canters a famous (then) olympic dressage rider once told me that a horse should be able to canter at least a full school before being introduced to short time transistions as most horses he taught had trouble anticipating the transistions up and down so could not maintain a balanced canter which caused the rushing behaviour. How things change as that was more than 20 years ago it made sense I must admit
 

hobo

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 March 2010
Messages
9,276
Location
dorset
Visit site
Very interesting replies and I guess I would have said more on the lines that W&R above said. My horse is very lazy in canter in the school and to pep her up I do lots of very short canters which makes her excited. So I think what that shows that every horse is different and you have to find what works. So if you have not tried just keeping a really long canter till she is asking to trot give it a go if she stays safe in canter. For mine cantering around the whole arena is just a pipe dream!
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
27,538
Visit site
Interesting take on preventing exciting canters a famous (then) olympic dressage rider once told me that a horse should be able to canter at least a full school before being introduced to short time transistions as most horses he taught had trouble anticipating the transistions up and down so could not maintain a balanced canter which caused the rushing behaviour. How things change as that was more than 20 years ago it made sense I must admit

can't speak for anyone else but i certainly wasn't advocating doing lots of transitions quickly together. In fact, a bit the opposite - only cantering again when the trot work had returned to a good quality and the horse was waiting. The OP says that the canter itself is not unbalanced or rushing, it appears to be in trot that the problem appears with anticipation so to my mind she needs to spend time addressing that and teaching the horse to be patient and not anticipate the next canter. When I've ridden horses like this it's not the pace that is the issue per se, it's a busy or impatient brain that needs to learn to wait for instructions :)
 

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
Thank you. Attempting to resettle the trot with figure 8s and shallow loops and some leg yeild is what we've been doing. Been getting 2 or maybe 3 transitions in a 45 min session! But the transitions have improved massively. Initially they were a flying confusion of legs exploding everywhere in excitement. Now it's a pop. A big pop but legs are all going in the right place. The trot between started as more of a passage but with arse swinging about every which way and flying out sideways through a shoulder given half a chance. It's now staying much straighter but it's not her best work, apart from the odd flash where everything clicks then it goes again. She becomes hyper sensitive to seat, hand and leg so it can all get a bit silly. I'm not brave enough to be on board for this period of schooling so MrPF is doing the riding at the moment. The last session he did more canter with a less settled trot inbetween. It was interesting because she hardly sweated at all despite it being warm. When we've done more trot she was much more sweated up. Either the anticipation makes her excited and sweat more than actually cantering or she's just got fitter.

Just to be clear she's not rushing at all. Her rhythm in trot and canter is slow and pretty consistent. The canter would get rushed if it went on for too long but she's doing several big circles now holding a good balance and rhythm. All the excited energy in trot is going up (and out sideways if it's allowed). She's balling herself up rather than trotting out forwards so to settle the trot it's more about unwinding her and getting her actually trotting out again rather than containing a steam engine trot. In terms of rein contact she's lifting above it when excited ( but not giraffing, just shortening her neck) rather than plowing into or through the hand. On the other hand in the warm up and when it "clicks" for a short period between canters the contact is the best I've seen MrPF get with her. I need to get up really as I can generally get a better connection and better lateral work when I'm on form but also have a tendency to freeze and stop riding because of the nerves, which would be no good whatsoever at the moment!

I think we're getting there slowly.
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
27,538
Visit site
She will get it. I think it's a bit of a penny-dropping thing and when they finally figure it out, things improve quite quickly. I would push on with the lateral work in trot so that you teach her to let you use your aids - that old thing about needing to ride a hot horse with your legs on and a lazy one with your legs off ;)

Wheels mentioned shoulder in on a circle earlier, that's a great exercise that is quite difficult so gets their attention and also forces the rider to use the leg and control the shoulder :) feels really difficult to start with but can be very very productive. You can also ride it quite forward but still be in control so she doesn't feel frustrated or held in.
 

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
MrPF was going for staying in canter until she asks for trot in the last session... I think she'd happily stay in canter forever. Lol.

I think a combination though. Settled trot, canter transitions, maintain canter until she's bored if possible... Or at least long enough for it to feel a bit more like work... then back to trot and keep her busy in the trot until she settles again.

The other thing is how to make the overall training look. At the moment we're doing 1 or 2 schooling sessions a week. The rest hacking or functional long lining. There's not much scope for cantering on hacks from home sadly. I don't know if a short blast of consecutive schooling sessions would help or whether they would cook her brain too much! We can't really box anywhere at the moment because car and trailer need a service and we can't get them done yet.
 

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
Thank you. I'm probably missing some replies cos of the damn Godzilla thing. Will make sure I go back and read and digest once Godzilla has buggered off.
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,733
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
I, too, find that frequent transitions 'wake up' the horse, so would aim for longer canters, rather than short bursts. Is this in an arena? What happens if you are schooling in a field? If you are on a hack?
 

milliepops

Wears headscarf aggressively
Joined
26 July 2008
Messages
27,538
Visit site
The other thing is how to make the overall training look. At the moment we're doing 1 or 2 schooling sessions a week. The rest hacking or functional long lining. There's not much scope for cantering on hacks from home sadly. I don't know if a short blast of consecutive schooling sessions would help or whether they would cook her brain too much! .
You can but try... :)
i personally think that back to back sessions are often helpful, to revisit something the next day and then give a day or 2 for the lesson to sink in. I rarely find that single days in the school spaced out are as productive as doing 2 in a row followed by a hack etc.
 

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
I, too, find that frequent transitions 'wake up' the horse, so would aim for longer canters, rather than short bursts. Is this in an arena? What happens if you are schooling in a field? If you are on a hack?

Not got a field available for schooling at the moment and the from home hacking is poor on the canter front. When I have managed a canter on a hack she goes, stops and settles on buckle end in walk more or less straight after. The next trot will be a little more energetic but that's all. She sometimes pops up to canter for a few strides on the road if she's in a particularly fun mood. Lol. As long as you sit on it and stay in a canter the brakes stay very light. If you go for a faster canter out of the saddle up a stubble field with what looks like a jumpable hedge in front of her nose a circle to stop might be required! Haha. That was in the autumn though so a while ago.
 

DabDab

Ah mud, splendid
Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
12,572
Visit site
She sounds like how my big idiot used to be - he tended to concertina himself into a big round passagey ball if he was obsessing about the canter transition (i assume because he feels much more in control of his limbs when he's all bunched up like that), and keeping him straight from back to front was a bit like wrestling a rhino :p.

With him the most effective thing was a travers half circle and and long side in canter, then straighten for a couple of strides before coming back to trot then forwards forwards forwards with those hind legs in the trot. Also not asking for much initially after a transition from trot to canter, so the first circuit of the school in canter is just forward, balanced, soft (possibly light seat) with no pressure.

ETA: my mare on the other hand is just learning about canter work now and is the rush off in trot type, and as per other responses, going straight into a series of trot lateral work settling/listening exercises is the absolute key for her (still a bit of a work in progress though)
 

splashgirl45

Lurcher lover
Joined
6 March 2010
Messages
15,044
Location
suffolk
Visit site
cant remember how old your horse is but what about lunging in all tack and side reins, before anyone jumps on me i mean not pulling her head into her chest but similar to ridden length of rein. put her on a large circle by walking yourself so as big a circle as poss and keep doing transitions and use your voice for both up and down and once she is calmer (hopefully) then do same ridden....this idea may be complete rubbish and others are competing at a much higher level than i ever did but that is what i would do...
 

JFTDWS

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 November 2010
Messages
20,982
Visit site
I think a lot of people don't spend enough time in canter which makes it over-exciting for the horse. I prefer a good long stint in canter, making it boring, or making it complicated work (depending on the personality of the horse!), and fewer canters, than lots of short canters or frequent transitions (which are definitely counter-productive!). And obviously the horse should be totally settled in walk / trot before moving into canter at any stage...
 

Goldenstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
46,023
Visit site
Cantering has to become like walking and trotting just another pace you work in .
It’s a common phase to go through I always deal with it by cantering lots and mixing in the canters with harder stuff in walk and trot .
I canter short periods and longer ones .
If the horse is green in canter you obviously can’t canter for minutes at a time but you need to get past the canter is something different that we do once each way each session stage and that can only be done by doing it .
Jennie Lorrison Clark always advocated calling an older horses bluff in canter if they where being fresh and just cantering them until where longing to stop three days is usually enough before they work out it’s not so much fun .
 

PapaverFollis

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 November 2012
Messages
9,544
Visit site
Thank you for all replies. All useful stuff to think about. Mostly reassurance that we're trying the right kind of stuff and it will get there! I need to get up myself and see what she feels like for me.

She's rising 8 now. Was a very green 5 when we got her. It actually took a long time to stop trot being really exciting too! And halting used to be difficult... as in we would be on the spot but lifting diagonal pairs of legs in impatience to get going again. Like slow mo piaffe without a moment of suspension. Lol! This is the same issue but with more energy I suppose. She has a lot of go for a big lump of a horse!
 

pansymouse

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 May 2012
Messages
2,736
Location
Amesbury, Wiltshire
Visit site
In my experience there are some horses that just won't settle to serious work without regularly scratching their need for speed itch - my mare is one of them. I just take her to a long fairly speed hill and let her go flat out until she wants to slow down, then push her a bit and slow down on my terms. As long as we do speed work once a week she'll settle and work nicely the rest of the time.
 
Top