Cantering on the road

[TheMule]

Great post..

We know trotting on the road causes higher concussion to the joints than walking. Fact.

Do we know for a fact that it causes damage, as some people seem to be asserting? I'm not aware of any long term study that has recorded the exact levels of road work that horses have done and linked that directly to unsoundness of the joints.
.

But you don’t need to study that exact thing to know that long term excessive concussion on the limbs will cause joint problems. There are many, many studies to prove that (some in horse, loads in other species)
You can go round and round in circles arguing about what is or isn’t excessive which is why a certain 'safe' parameter is set such as 5minutes.

 

[LEC]

arent those vitafloor things all about vibration?

???? like I always say why don’t we see old people lined up in corridors vibrating if so good?

i don't know the first thing about them but they do seem to bang on about the benefits of whole body vibration.

I am a *mostly walking* on the roads person. when i was younger I was on an old fangled yard and everything did lots of trotting on the road to "harden the legs" but as people have mentioned, times have changed.

just like we no longer use leeches for everything, no longer blood let and don’t fire horses anymore.

 

[milliepops]

???? like I always say why don’t we see old people lined up in corridors vibrating if so good?

just like we no longer use leeches for everything, no longer blood let and don’t fire horses anymore.

They don't wear vibrating cool boots either one of OHs clients rents out Theraplates which i am aware are a different thing but it seems like more to just throw money away on making yourself feel better about doing SOMETHING

 

[LEC]

They don't wear vibrating cool boots either one of OHs clients rents out Theraplates which i am aware are a different thing but it seems like more to just throw money away on making yourself feel better about doing SOMETHING

Quackery and horses goes hand in hand. Honestly social media has made me feel like I have a PHD in science. I only have GCSEs in it but I read a bit and have some critical thinking skills. Someone telling others to use an ARC on sarcoids tipped me over, when I pointed out it was dangerous advice and contraindicated then their answer was that people should make up their own minds ?.

 

[Cortez]

???? like I always say why don’t we see old people lined up in corridors vibrating if so good?

just like we no longer use leeches for everything, no longer blood let and don’t fire horses anymore.

Oh but we do still use leeches, and bloodletting (which is more or less the same thing) is also back in fashion for some conditions.

 

[LEC]

Oh but we do still use leeches, and bloodletting (which is more or less the same thing) is also back in fashion for some conditions.

Hence my point for everything. I appreciate leeches still do have their place in modern medicine along with maggots. In the past leeches cured nearly every ill.

 

[TPO]

They don't wear vibrating cool boots either

Oh no but these are *magic* boots that work wonders ???

 

[LEC]

Oh no but these are *magic* boots that work wonders ???

I actually have some but only because I liked the kit and it was easy to use. The actual vibrating was useful as a timer, the reality nobody seems to think about is the ice boot stops the vibrations anyway.

 

[TPO]

I actually have some but only because I liked the kit and it was easy to use. The actual vibrating was useful as a timer, the reality nobody seems to think about is the ice boot stops the vibrations anyway.

I had a set too and they were grand as ice boots. The vibrating element is a nice marketing ploy that has worked well for them.

There was a long thread in Comp Riders about them years back when they were released. I think it was tarrsteps that spoke to HW on one of their stands and they had zero answers to any basic anatomy questions regarding their claims.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Three seasons ? what do they do to them?!

It's big hedge country. Very demanding when the going is heavy.

I too was shocked when I was told about it. My own experience of hunting in a different (less posh) area was nothing like this. My horse always came first, even if it meant getting left behind.

 

[I'm Dun]

Do it if you want but don't try and argue that it doesn't cause damage.

Pretty much everything we do to horses ridden wise causes damage though

 

[Archangel]

Has anyone seen that Zendaya ad where she's galloping on the road and up steps? I always cringe, not because of the horses joints but because I envisage her and the horse having an horrendous accident.

and the saddle position

 

[teddypops]

I trot my ponies on the roads, not for long but usually up the steep hills. I also trot and canter on hard gravel tracks. I wouldn’t canter on the road as I wouldn’t want to risk slipping and also spooks are high speed from trot, never mind from canter, I also have better brakes from trot.

 

[ycbm]

But you don’t need to study that exact thing to know that long term excessive concussion on the limbs will cause joint problems.

You don't need to study whether the extra concussion from work on a flat hard surface in mainly straight lines by horses causes life limiting damage, in order to know it?

I'm sorry, but that's exactly the study I want before I can know it to be true, done over years and with a large sample.
.

 

[TheMule]

You don't need to study whether the extra concussion from work on a flat hard surface in mainly straight lines by horses causes life limiting damage, in order to know it?

I'm sorry, but that's exactly the study I want before I can know it to be true, done over years and with a large sample.
.

Who's going to fund it?! There's no financial benefit in it for anyone, there's nothing marketable there. In a perfect world you'd test every single thing. In an imperfect one where scientists actually need to make a living you take research from studies where they test parts of the theory and then infer from those findings

 

[ycbm]

Who's going to fund it?!

I didn't ask for anyone to fund it. But until it IS funded then it's not right for people to assert that getting horses fit by trotting them in straight lines on flat hard surfaces will shorten their working lives, because none of us know if that is true.
.

 

[clinkerbuilt]

Who's going to fund it?! There's no financial benefit in it for anyone, there's nothing marketable there. In a perfect world you'd test every single thing. In an imperfect one where scientists actually need to make a living you take research from studies where they test parts of the theory and then infer from those findings

Problem is, the money for this kind of study is likely in racing, which wouldn't be a good sample for such questions, for all sorts of reasons. And now there's no roads and tracks in a lot of eventing, there's no competition motive to investigate. The caveat to the human studies is that you do need to avoid injuries which strain one side or other too much; then all bets are off. Soz for the double-image in the original post.

 

[PoniesRock]

It's big hedge country. Very demanding when the going is heavy.

I too was shocked when I was told about it. My own experience of hunting in a different (less posh) area was nothing like this. My horse always came first, even if it meant getting left behind.

I still find it very bizarre - I’ve groomed for hunt kennels in jumping country and the horses were there season after season.

 

[maya2008]

I wouldn’t canter on the road near us due to the possibility of either slipping or getting a stone bruise from the amount of mud/muck left behind by our local tractors.

I wouldn’t even trot on the roads near my friend’s yard because they are deathly slippery and verge on dangerous even in walk.

I have trotted regularly to competitions via roads for years before we had our box - didn’t cause signs of arthritis on x-ray when looking for the answer to a lameness issue (which turned out to be soft tissue) in one of those horses.

I believe very much in moderation. Horses have bones, tendons, ligaments and muscles. Hard surfaces are bad for some of those and good for others. Same with school surfaces, muddy tracks etc.

Anyway, as far as I can tell, turning them out is the most dangerous activity!

 

[MagicMelon]

I would never trot on the road, let alone canter. My first pony, as a young kid, I would trot a lot on the roads. He came down with what they believed to be concussive laminitis. I blame myself entirely for that and never trotted again on tarmac. I would on grass verges but not on roads. I would suggest cantering could raise the slippage risk? Having had a horse bolt with me on the road, slip and come down on me I wouldnt ever want to.

Out of interest have there been any studies on the concussion levels in a shod v unshod horse? I would assume metal shoes would increase the concussion.

 

[Orangehorse]

Mine prefers a steady slow canter uphill on roads - he'll choose it in preference to trotting. I've always stopped him doing this, but after reading this thread perhaps I should just go with it!

Its easier for them to canter uphill than trot. Hunters do go on for a good few seasons though, so all their fitness work and a season's hunting doesn't hurt all of them. I suppose that traditionally they did have a good rest out in the field to heal up any strains.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

The ponies/horses I worked with at a RS in the late 60's did all road work, lots of trotting on the roads and they stayed remarkably sound. The original horses that my boss started with worked well into their 20's. School work was not on the agenda as we only had fields and they weren't suitable for lessons.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Mine prefers a steady slow canter uphill on roads - he'll choose it in preference to trotting. I've always stopped him doing this, but after reading this thread perhaps I should just go with it!

Yes I had one of those too. Very steep hills all around me and I would let him take them (uphill) at any speed he chose. Either walk (rarely, if ever) trot (sometimes) lovely rocking chair canter almost every time. I did however always make him walk down steep hills as he was a very heavy Suffolk PunchX and if I didnt watch him he would go onto the forehand far too easily going down a steep hill, not good for him or my nerves!

 

[ycbm]

My first pony, as a young kid, I would trot a lot on the roads. He came down with what they believed to be concussive laminitis

This is a diagnosis that used to be common and I haven't heard of now for years. The last I read, years ago, was that the writer believed that concussion laminitis only happens when the laminae are already compromised, and not if the connection is good. I think that is maybe why it has gone out of fashion as a diagnosis.

I wouldn't blame yourself, your pony likely had the early stages of grass related laminitis.
.

 

[spotty_pony]

Cantering his actually less concussive than trot - it is the risk of them slipping which is why it is not recommended to do it (although we do out hunting). If horse is barefoot, it’s actually not much of an issue to be cantering on the road.

 

[LEC]

Cantering his actually less concussive than trot - it is the risk of them slipping which is why it is not recommended to do it (although we do out hunting). If horse is barefoot, it’s actually not much of an issue to be cantering on the road.

We have just shown conclusively in this thread that this isn’t true it’s just perspective. But sure have at it as you can always inject for joints….

 

[LEC]

I didn't ask for anyone to fund it. But until it IS funded then it's not right for people to assert that getting horses fit by trotting them in straight lines on flat hard surfaces will shorten their working lives, because none of us know if that is true.
.

So just trying to get my head round this logic….
Even though it’s never been proven that the equi biome test works and the PSSM2 test hasn’t been shown to be reliable as no proven scientific papers you are happy to recommend these to people and the overall conclusion from these unscientific tests is that it might shorten a horses working life, that’s fine. But you are unwilling to look at several different scientific studies and conclude that it won’t be shown as true on trotting on the road because their isn’t a direct examination of this?

@ester

 

[spotty_pony]

We have just shown conclusively in this thread that this isn’t true it’s just perspective. But sure have at it as you can always inject for joints….

I didn’t read all of the replies. I’m not sure how this can be shown in a discussion forum of horse owners - it’s just a place to debate and have your opinion. ?‍

 

[LEC]

I didn’t read all of the replies. I’m not sure how this can be shown in a fuss is soon forum of horse owners - it’s just a place to debate and have your opinion. ?‍

Absolutely, sometimes there is opinion and sometimes there is fact. This is why fake news is such a prevalent problem as a lot of people go with anecdote and construe that as fact. It’s a dangerous precedent and why there is a whole group of people out there who think the world is flat. That being just one example of opinion vs fact. Plus if you try hard enough you can always construe anecdote or make facts work for you as there will always be something you can manipulate to fit your world view.

 

[Frano]

Does anyone else remember the old saying,

It’s not galloping on the heavy clay that lames a horse. But the trot,trot, trot on the King’s highway.