CAP Payments to the South Dorset Hunt from the European Union

[Goldenstar]

No politician has had to make the case for agricultural support from the tax payer since I was young .
Anyone involved in the industry who thinks it will be business as usual after a brexit is going to suffer a huge shock it won't be the business as usual .
Politicians will have to sell the case for shovelling money at farmers and that's not going to be an easy sell with rest of the population .

 

[popsdosh]

No politician has had to make the case for agricultural support from the tax payer since I was young .
Anyone involved in the industry who thinks it will be business as usual after a brexit is going to suffer a huge shock it won't be the business as usual .
Politicians will have to sell the case for shovelling money at farmers and that's not going to be an easy sell with rest of the population .

So the general public will be happy to have their food prices increase as that is the only consequence of withdrawing the support and maintaining agriculture within this country. We have a reasonable size operation here that in the last two years would have gone under without the support. Made a loss both years and its not because were inefficient we are in the top 10% on costings . Thats including the support and dont forget we are indeed taxed on the support so thats a chunk going straight back to source.
As I said earlier the payments do not support farmers they support cheap food in the shops!! thats the stark truth of it. Farmers are not registered charities no other industry would tolerate the return on investment we have to I know several farmers whose families have been and still are on income support. Farming is a way of life thats why we accept the poor financial returns.

 

[Goldenstar]

After a brexit We have the choice to import food from wherever we chose yes food prices will rise I am quite sure of that but but might a politician think that's an price worth paying not to have to sell the idea of giving cash to people with range rovers to a sceptical public .

 

[Judgemental]

Wow JM, no chip on your shoulder then! We are tenants and whilst we love to have our own land we will never be able to buy it. But, it gives us an opportunity to farm in our own right and gives us security. Our landlord is a retired farmer who son doesn't want to farm. The entitlements are in our name.

JRP there is one thing that does not happen on this forum and that is personal abuse. I am merely a messenger and in the last few days, have been proved entirely correct. I shall make allowances for you, because you probably live west of the Tamar and well, what can one say.... poor souls, probably all that granite giving off radioactive gas.

Trying to reply to all the posts is difficult.

However Hackney Lass, good grief we agree on something. Your last post and paragraph. What is going to happen. My sources indicate that because of the unfairness in distribution of EU Farm Payments, following the Vote, the likelihood of such payment being kicked into the long grass is almost certain.

I think Goldenstar mentioned new Range Rovers.

Look at the piece in the Daily Express of yesterday. Notwithstanding Dodgy Dave's failed attempt, to get a Repeal of the Hunting act as a means of trying to pretend he had honored his electoral promises.

Now it is clear he has a 'resigning reason' conflict of interests concerning money from the EU being paid to his immediate family.

There were nearly 500 adverse comments attached (when I last looked) to the following link suggesting that money from the EU to the already rich with inherited wealth, was comprehensively unacceptable

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/67...avid-reginald-sheffield-millions-eu-subsidies

Wait till the Labour party have collectively read, met and understood the issue, I predict the proverbial sh.t will hit the fan spectacularly. Believe me it will.

Look at one of the Express' comments:

" Amazingly the taxpayer-funded programme is handing over hundreds of millions of pounds of our cash to rich aristocrats, fox hunting associations and local councils".

"Fox Hunting Associations", interesting my experience of Fox Hunting Associations are to my knowledge, normally found in the bedroom!

 

[conniegirl]

My sister currently lives in the Falkland Islands, there is no farming subsidies over there and the vast majority of thier food has to be imported, she currently pays £4.50 for a punnet of cherry tomatoes and £3.70 for a cucumber!
She paid £1.20 for a single peach!
Her weekly shop for a single person is well over £100! So god help anyone with a family of 4!

That is the sort of prices britain will face should we get rid of the farming subsidies!
Whilst you JM may be able to afford that the vast majority of the population cannot!

 

[Judgemental]

My sister currently lives in the Falkland Islands, there is no farming subsidies over there and the vast majority of thier food has to be imported, she currently pays £4.50 for a punnet of cherry tomatoes and £3.70 for a cucumber!
She paid £1.20 for a single peach!
Her weekly shop for a single person is well over £100! So god help anyone with a family of 4!

That is the sort of prices britain will face should we get rid of the farming subsidies!
Whilst you JM may be able to afford that the vast majority of the population cannot!

The Falkland Islands hardly in our geographical or political area. What about fish?

I fear your comparison is not ideal the Falklands are 8,064 miles from the UK

I know their fish for retail consumption is cheapest anywhere in the South Atlantic. Therefore there is an averaging and I am told there are no restrictions on on-farm slaughtering of mutton and lamb for ex-farm sale, or beef for that matter.

Similarly our fishing fleet will be allowed to fish properly without the EU with a massive expansion in the number of vessels. Furthermore the Spanish will be prevented from fishing our inshore waters which they have a program to implement very shortly.

The price of food will remain exactly the same according to all the major supermarkets (who will not engage in the debate) the same without interference concerning bent cucumbers and bananas for example.

 

[conniegirl]

You honestly think that cheap fish balances out the fact that vegetables of all forms (bent or not) are ludicrously expensive, the fact that you cannot get beef or pork In The shops on a regular basis and when they do come in they are beyond the reach of most people finances, that fruit is restiricted when it does become available ( they had a shipment of bananas the other week, £8 a bunch and maximum 2 bunches per household), heck even fresh milk (not UHT) is only obtainable direct from the farm and only if the farmer likes you!
Lamb is unobtainable out there, mutton is obtainable but costs the same as over here, beef is not farmed over there other than a few farms who keep cows for milk (and not on the scale of even small farms over here, we are talking 2 or 3 cows)
The Falklands are British overseas territories so well within our political remit and influence. However there is no farming subsidies so farmers struggle.

I can very much see that happening over here, most of the food in supermarkets is imported, without trade agreements in place the cost to import that food will increase substantially and more fool you if you think the supermarkets won't pass that increase on to the consumer!
Heck milk already costs more to produce than it can be sold for and dairy farms are going out of business every day.
Remove the subsidies and 90% of farmers in the uk will go out of business, the. We will have to rely on imported goods for the vast majority of our food stuffs! Ever heard of captive markets? That is what we will become if we cannot produce our own food!

 

[Judgemental]

You honestly think that cheap fish balances out the fact that vegetables of all forms (bent or not) are ludicrously expensive, the fact that you cannot get beef or pork In The shops on a regular basis and when they do come in they are beyond the reach of most people finances, that fruit is restiricted when it does become available ( they had a shipment of bananas the other week, £8 a bunch and maximum 2 bunches per household), heck even fresh milk (not UHT) is only obtainable direct from the farm and only if the farmer likes you!
Lamb is unobtainable out there, mutton is obtainable but costs the same as over here, beef is not farmed over there other than a few farms who keep cows for milk (and not on the scale of even small farms over here, we are talking 2 or 3 cows)
The Falklands are British overseas territories so well within our political remit and influence. However there is no farming subsidies so farmers struggle.

I can very much see that happening over here, most of the food in supermarkets is imported, without trade agreements in place the cost to import that food will increase substantially and more fool you if you think the supermarkets won't pass that increase on to the consumer!
Heck milk already costs more to produce than it can be sold for and dairy farms are going out of business every day.
Remove the subsidies and 90% of farmers in the uk will go out of business, the. We will have to rely on imported goods for the vast majority of our food stuffs! Ever heard of captive markets? That is what we will become if we cannot produce our own food!

The Falkland Islands 8000 miles from the UK what's the relevance?

Population 2932 in the 2012 census.

So what, I don't get your argument?

The UK has a population of 65 million and rapidly rising if we stay in the EU.

Perhaps we could ship some of these migrants to the Falklands. Although I can't see any natives of the EU member countries wanting to reside in the Falklands.

 

[Goldenstar]

You can't compare the Falkland Islands to the UK .
The climate there makes the production of fresh produce hard so it has to be brought from a vast distance away adding huge transport costs.
After Brexit the Uk would still in the same distance from say Spain and they still would be producing huge quantities of tomatoes etc that they needed to see.

JM I said range rovers not new range rovers btw .

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

FYI - the South Dorset hunt farm the land next to their kennels - members of the hunting farming community do this hence why they get subsidies. Simple!!!

 

[Judgemental]

FYI - the South Dorset hunt farm the land next to their kennels - members of the hunting farming community do this hence why they get subsidies. Simple!!!

That is a very interesting comment. Looking at Google Earth, that would appear to be arable farming.

So who actually does the farming, physically?

Who actually owns the land?

Frankly you may not welcome this attention or questions. However a hunt is clearly applying for and accepting state hand outs, i.e. tax payers money, to sustain their operations. Subsidies no, entitlements no, benefits in exactly the same way as unemployment benefit is paid. The information is now clearly published by DEFRA, so any member of the public is entitled to inquire, as to the exact detail.

As I said in an earlier post, I was doing the hunt a favor by giving a 'heads up' that it was highly likely this whole subject could become a matter of national interest by 23 June and post that date, irrespective of the outcome.

You only have to look at the piece in the Daily Express.

As I also said, the proverbial sh.t is going to hit the fan.

In my experience, I would be very concerned about the position of the Labour Party who, in my opinion do not understand the detail. Bearing in mind they want to stay in the EU and when they do understand, all hell is going to break loose, irrespective of the IN or OUT camps. Because the Labour party will be made to feel very foolish.

 

[Goldenstar]

I simply don't get your point JM , as long as the money is being claimed within the rules what's the issue ?

 

[jrp204]

"JRP there is one thing that does not happen on this forum and that is personal abuse. I am merely a messenger and in the last few days, have been proved entirely correct. I shall make allowances for you, because you probably live west of the Tamar and well, what can one say.... poor souls, probably all that granite giving off radioactive gas. "

No personal abuse went on, it was a statement 'no chip on your shoulder', take it how you like.
As a messenger you obviously have a huge amount of time on your hands as there appears to be a lot of reading and research going on, I like many who claim a SFP unfortunately are not blessed with being able to spend time doing what you do, we are trying to earn a living wage, and in many instances failing whilst still producing food that you put in your mouth.
You are quite right I do live to the west of the Tamar and am incredibly proud of my Cornish roots. Sorry to say we don't live on granite so no radon. I can manage insanity all on my own, think a lot of farmers will agree with that one.

 

[Judgemental]

"JRP there is one thing that does not happen on this forum and that is personal abuse. I am merely a messenger and in the last few days, have been proved entirely correct. I shall make allowances for you, because you probably live west of the Tamar and well, what can one say.... poor souls, probably all that granite giving off radioactive gas. "

No personal abuse went on, it was a statement 'no chip on your shoulder', take it how you like.
As a messenger you obviously have a huge amount of time on your hands as there appears to be a lot of reading and research going on, I like many who claim a SFP unfortunately are not blessed with being able to spend time doing what you do, we are trying to earn a living wage, and in many instances failing whilst still producing food that you put in your mouth.
You are quite right I do live to the west of the Tamar and am incredibly proud of my Cornish roots. Sorry to say we don't live on granite so no radon. I can manage insanity all on my own, think a lot of farmers will agree with that one.

In response to you and Goldenstar, you just don't get it do you.

We are in a campaign, a dirty one at that, for a very important referendum and the press and media are buzzing around looking for stories.

If you have not read it, have a look at the piece in the Daily Express if you have not already done so.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/67...avid-reginald-sheffield-millions-eu-subsidies

Scroll to the bottom and have a look to the comments - over 500 of the angriest comments I have ever seen on the subject and fair reflection of the thinking, of the average man in the street who is not fortunate enough to own land whether inherited or not, or tenanted.

Those are people up and down the country who I dare say, would like a slice of the Single Farm Payment Pie as they have difficulty in buying a house etc.

Whether you like it or not, you are lumped in with the aristocratic inherited wealth. Which is perfectly legal to claim the SFP but is morally repugnant.

If one takes state money for nothing, you can bet your life, especially hunts will be of considerable interest.

It is wholly naive to think otherwise.

That piece in the Express and I believe the Guardian's recently, will set of a chain reaction amongst the media.

In other words, "there's a story here chaps, make hay whilst the sun shines".

 

[jrp204]

Do you know what, if Joe Public wants to get SFP, it's simple. Either buy some land or do what we do, work god damn hard and rent some. It's not rocket science!! People need to eat, they expect food to be available when they want it regardless of where it comes from. I would happily not claim SFP if we got a fair market price. It is not a gift it is a payment to maintain parts of the countryside for which we have to jump through hoops. So, either get your own land and claim it or pay a fair market price for your food. Simple.
JM, I am butting out of this, we will not agree and I haven't got the time or the energy to waste on this.
Good choice of name, guess it wasn't going to be 'Tolerance'

 

[Goldenstar]

JM and you don't get my point if the money is legally claimed why should anyone get dragged into anything .
The EU referendum is the most important thing I will vote on on the rest of my life I simply can't imagine why any one would think that the fact some hunts lease or own land that is farmed would in any way influence anyones view on how they should vote .
It's a complete irrelevance .

 

[Judgemental]

JM and you don't get my point if the money is legally claimed why should anyone get dragged into anything .
The EU referendum is the most important thing I will vote on on the rest of my life I simply can't imagine why any one would think that the fact some hunts lease or own land that is farmed would in any way influence anyones view on how they should vote .
It's a complete irrelevance .

Because hunting is a highly contentious issue at the best of times and the vast majority of the population, do not support their tax payers money going to prop up packs of hounds. Packs of hounds that are run by comparatively very wealthy people. If you look at the comments in the Express, of which there are over 600, you will find a staggering level of hatred and vicious invective directed to such people in every single comment. Not because they are seen to have anything to do with hunting but because they are already wealthy, with inherited wealth and are getting handouts of state tax payers money for do nothing.

 

[Goldenstar]

But that's nothing to with hunting .
It's caused by the ridiculous way the EU has destroyed the market within agriculture I completely fail to understand why this is an issue .
People who hate other people will do so whatever the reason those people posting venom well that's just bitter people it's hunts are farming they need to be treated like everyone else who are farming .
Hunting is not very near the top on consisenous issues for most people.
Most of us get exercised about much more serious issues .

 

[Judgemental]

But that's nothing to with hunting .
It's caused by the ridiculous way the EU has destroyed the market within agriculture I completely fail to understand why this is an issue .
People who hate other people will do so whatever the reason those people posting venom well that's just bitter people it's hunts are farming they need to be treated like everyone else who are farming .
Hunting is not very near the top on consisenous issues for most people.
Most of us get exercised about much more serious issues .

Oh, it all goes hand in hand with the overall fabric of agricultural society. For example Piddletrenthide Farms right in the middle of the South Dorset Country, received £181,410.62 in EU payments in 2014 according to the DEFRA Website. Why shouldn't everybody in the UK have a slice of the EU Farm Benefits?

 

[jrp204]

Why shouldn't everybody in the UK have a slice of the EU Farm Benefits?

They are, they get cheap food.

(I know, I am now getting back to work, that really is my last post on this, I will bite no more!)

 

[Judgemental]

They are, they get cheap food.

(I know, I am now getting back to work, that really is my last post on this, I will bite no more!)

Rubbish, that what you and your kind like to kid yourselves with and the propaganda that is peddled by all those in receipt of state handouts.

 

[jrp204]

"" your kind"" ?????? Wow, that ole' chip 'aint weighing down then?

 

[Judgemental]

"" your kind"" ?????? Wow, that ole' chip 'aint weighing down then?

Thought you had retired from the field of play. No matter plenty of stamina here. 

Others who Joust on this forum know that I am an inveterate plagiarist but I always quote my source. In this case it is the Daily Express of today and one of the many adverse comments (currently 613) concerning EU Benefits to landowners etc

In passing you remarked yesterday that I obviously had plenty of time. Well is took me precisely 45 seconds to download all the detail from DEFRA concerning all the Dukes, Duchesses, Lords Ladies, Earls etc. Plus all others, which category presumably you come into, the poor down trodden farmer?

I say, I don't suppose you are too happy about Cameron eating Cornish Pasties, made in Leeds. Bet that touched a raw nerve. What about all these pregnant Poles in the South West as well.

When supping with the devil always have a long spoon.

"The Patriot said in The Daily Express
conman cameron, aka the grim reaper admitted himself that he owns a small field in Lincolnshire, must be next to sams dad because camerons field small field is 5,000 acres, what with the family trusts in tax havens and private companies all over the place is camerons small field of 5,000 acres receiving any cap payments and what is on that small field of 5,000 acres is it wind turbines is arable is it grass or is it just for fox hunting, so many secrets so many skeletons from a dead man walking, we know all about call me dave and the book but we should know that th pm is not really slumming it on holiday in cornwall munching on pasties made in leeds where he reckons he buys them, see its all lies and deceit, he got re elected on lies and deceit, you the poor people that is what he calls you, the poor people, you the poor people make him rich, you the poor he makes you poor and gives you food banks and welfare cuts and mas migration enriching you with immigrants, gropers and no hopers, 400 poles were made redundant a a meat factory in the south west, now they are on the dole the women are all pregnant and they are in groups stealing from all the charity shops we are so blessed us poor people to be enriched with murderers and rapists and the world keeps quiet until after the referendum, vote freedom vote leave your life depends on it".

 

[popsdosh]

"" your kind"" ?????? Wow, that ole' chip 'aint weighing down then?

some just havent got the brain they like to make out they have.

The silence of the clamour to do away with SFP_is deafening lol. Judgemental you are relying on old figures on a site that is not even an official one. There is another more up to date site(im sure you can find it with googles help) that is official that is run by government. Your figures are pre the last renegotiation of the CAP so well out of line with current practice. It would also be nice to hear when we may receive last years payment as it may make a small dent in our .5million overdraft so we can feed the ungrateful hoards
However indeed there is none so blind as those who do not wish to see. Trans World Airways Too comes to mind.

 

[Judgemental]

some just havent got the brain they like to make out they have.

The silence of the clamour to do away with SFP_is deafening lol. Judgemental you are relying on old figures on a site that is not even an official one. There is another more up to date site(im sure you can find it with googles help) that is official that is run by government. Your figures are pre the last renegotiation of the CAP so well out of line with current practice. It would also be nice to hear when we may receive last years payment as it may make a small dent in our .5million overdraft so we can feed the ungrateful hoards
However indeed there is none so blind as those who do not wish to see. Trans World Airways Too comes to mind.

I gather my figures from http://cap-payments.defra.gov.uk/ which as far as I am aware is the most up to date DEFRA Website showing the most recently available figures, up to October 2014.

If you know of another with 2015, I would be very interested.

 

[Goldenstar]

Oh, it all goes hand in hand with the overall fabric of agricultural society. For example Piddletrenthide Farms right in the middle of the South Dorset Country, received £181,410.62 in EU payments in 2014 according to the DEFRA Website. Why shouldn't everybody in the UK have a slice of the EU Farm Benefits?

Because that's not how the system works at the moment , that's nothing to with hunting what so ever .
At the moment the EU drives how agriculture is supported .
If and it's a big if we vote for a brexit then it will all be up for discussion ,our next elected government could support ( or not support ) agriculture in any way it chose .

 

[hobo]

I am quite good at finishing a post by adding my bit so I think a

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL is in order.

 

[popsdosh]

Oh, it all goes hand in hand with the overall fabric of agricultural society. For example Piddletrenthide Farms right in the middle of the South Dorset Country, received £181,410.62 in EU payments in 2014 according to the DEFRA Website. Why shouldn't everybody in the UK have a slice of the EU Farm Benefits?

This is what you seem to have a lot of difficulty understanding they all DO!

 

[Orangehorse]

The SFP is no more, it is now the Basic Payment. It is a payment to all farmers in the EU to keep them on the land and farming and growing food, as we are certainly not making any profits at the moment. Before the EU farmers in the UK were getting Deficiency Payments, which effectively put a bottom in the market, again to keep people on the land.

The weird way the payments were made - giving the money to the landowners rather than just the farmer trying to make a living from the land - was all thanks to Mrs. margaret Bennett who was the Labour Minister of Agriculture at the time. Everyone was shaking their head in wonder but hence the way that anyone owning land, including hunts of course, could claim the payments.

Incidentally, the payments are a subsidy for the consumers rather than the farmers to kee the price of food down and farmers producing food rather than importing it all from countries where there are lower costs of production.

 

[Judgemental]

FYI - the South Dorset hunt farm the land next to their kennels - members of the hunting farming community do this hence why they get subsidies. Simple!!!

Carolineb I don't believe I saw your response to my question:

That is a very interesting comment. Looking at Google Earth, that would appear to be arable farming.

So who actually does the farming, physically?

Who actually owns the land?

Is it owned by the hunt or a landlord and if the latter, how much of the £7,805.00 is paid to the landlord.