Carl, hanging cheeks and poll pressure

Sounded like he didn't have a huge amount of experience with them so was trying to come up with a quick answer for the listeners!
 
It's hard to explain in a tweet :p. I do think the pair of them should understand what puts what pressure on the horse though. It's disappointed me on a lovely commentary! :D
 
I was surprised (in a good way) that Pammy spoke positively of Micklem bridles in the same discussion, I thought she'd be a total sceptic.

Laughed when she said her mother had said that hanging cheek snaffles should be 'hung', though. What is so bad about a hanging cheek bit? (Have never used one, just curious). I've written for dressage judges who think they ahould be banned as 'cheating'.
 
Poll pressure or not, some horses go really well in baucher or hanging cheek snaffles. I think it has more to do with the bit's stability in the mouth than any other effect.
 
Oh I agree Cortez, Mum's Anglo is very fussy with her mouth and is best in a Mullen hanging cheek.

Farma someone was using one and it was mentioned and Carl said it gave poll pressure so the horse lowered it's head - sigh. The laws of physics mean this cannot be the case because the rein is not fixed and is free to move around the bit ring. Penny said they'd discuss it next year and that her mother said they should all be hung ;)
 
ester said:
Farma someone was using one and it was mentioned and Carl said it gave poll pressure so the horse lowered it's head - sigh. The laws of physics mean this cannot be the case because the rein is not fixed and is free to move around the bit ring. Penny said they'd discuss it next year and that her mother said they should all be hung ;)
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But does the rein really moves around the bit ring? It seems the rein would settle where the ring is largest when you take a contact.
I don't find it that straightforward, I might have to do some little experiments to be totally convinced. For what it is worth, I am back to a simple lozenge snaffle as my horse goes better in it than the hanging cheek, I wouldn't discard it though, horses for courses.
 
My grey has a hanging cheek myler as that's what she likes. If she really takes hold, the cheekpieces go baggy/lift from the sides of her head, so I've never believed the poll pressure theory.
 
Palindrome I believe that NS have done some pressure testing. Even if the rein doesn't move round totally freely it is never really low enough/far enough away from the pivot point (mouthpiece on the bars) to produce poll pressure.

I have also found this, it's quite interesting IMO and would match what I have seen with the bowing of the cheekpieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MmikY9kRhI
 
Faracat said:
My grey has a hanging cheek myler as that's what she likes. If she really takes hold, the cheekpieces go baggy/lift from the sides of her head, so I've never believed the poll pressure theory.
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I agree my boy is in a happy mouth straight bar hanging cheek and if I take up a real contact it goes baggy, almost the opposite of pressure.
 
ester said:
Palindrome I believe that NS have done some pressure testing. Even if the rein doesn't move round totally freely it is never really low enough/far enough away from the pivot point (mouthpiece on the bars) to produce poll pressure.

I have also found this, it's quite interesting IMO and would match what I have seen with the bowing of the cheekpieces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MmikY9kRhI
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great video, the horses look utterly confused though (good sign as means they aren't used to someone pulling around on the reins :))
It looks like there is less poll pressure than with a regular snaffle bit then.
 
Never heard the commentary but ester is correct re poll pressure and hanging cheeks. Went to a talk by Neue Schule creator and the testing they have done on pressure points showed that hanging cheeks actually had the least amount of pressure of any bit. As for Pammy Hutton and Micklem bridle, I'm pretty sure William Micklem (or his brother?) is Charlie Hutton's godfather (there's a definite connection) - piece of useless information ��
 
Yup one of them was best friends with her father or something? She did declare an interest ;). I just think people listen to what they say so it would be good if they could get some of the 'basics' right.
 
Neue Schule came to our pony camp last week and presented their recent research on the amount of pressure applied to the poll when different bits are used. Hanging cheek snaffle actually slightly relieved poll pressure and provided less poll pressure than the loose ring (which didn't provide much anyway). I was cheering on the back row as I use one and often people hint they think it's "cheating".

I hope they publish the work more widely (like in H&H!)
 
Cortez said:
Poll pressure or not, some horses go really well in baucher or hanging cheek snaffles. I think it has more to do with the bit's stability in the mouth than any other effect.
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Totally agree with you here, I'm a Fulmer fan and love the hanging cheek as they both sit in the mouth the same.

They have no poll pressure as my pony club group proved at rally. They tried the finger under the bridle at the poll, all took it in turns to do so while the rider operated the reins. All said the same that there was no change in pressure when the reins were used.
 
OK so now I am going to spoil it all by throwing in a crazy idea . Horses as we know ,can either lean in or move away the leg. Most horses will lead if you apply pressure on the poll from a head collar.BUT SOME fight poll pressure ,as all the broken string loops on the rings around my horse box,testify. Maybe the softening and taking up the contact with the hanging cheek bit is due to the RELEASE of poll pressure for some horses .
 
Great thread Ester, did they ever respond again?

In terms of relieving pressure on the poll, or not putting any pressure on, perhaps there is something in it Mike, compared to other bits. I used to handle a horse who would never stand still tied up in a standard head collar. Eventually someone tried him with one of those very thin loosely tied rope halters and he was almost a dope on a rope afterwards...
 
Horses that pull back often are sore or out in the poll, the effect of the pressure and they way they twist their head.

The thin rope halters apply a more concentrated pressure so effectively apply stronger pressure over a thinner area, increasing discomfort, resulting in yielding. Same reaction with a thinner bit being stronger than a thick one.

In a non horse related way, there was a time when Lino was the favourite floor covering, and stlleto heeled shoes were banned because they seriously marked floors, pounds per square inch pressure exerted.

Generally found with the testing as mentioned in an earlier post that there was no difference. Possibly meaning that the position the bit is held in could be the key to its success.

I school in a Fulmer, and compete in a hanging cheek because it looks neater and gives the same result.
 
That's interesting tnavas as mums mare does pull back - does get sore- and does go best in a Mullen hanging cheek.

Teapot I tried and explanation in 80 characters, Pammy called it a lecture and they carried on talking about the horses. (Which is fair enough but I couldn't see them anyway)
 
Tnavas said:
Horses that pull back often are sore or out in the poll, the effect of the pressure and they way they twist their head.

The thin rope halters apply a more concentrated pressure so effectively apply stronger pressure over a thinner area, increasing discomfort, resulting in yielding. Same reaction with a thinner bit being stronger than a thick one.
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On the basis that it's tight enough to apply pressure I assume...
 
Well it makes my horse tuck his chin into his chest, so I agree that there must be more pressure there than with the average snaffle. I'm not sure of the dynamics behind it, though was always told that hanging cheeks = poll pressure.
 
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