Castrating. Things are a bit fractious here!

[poiuytrewq]

Maybe Jess kept the boys under control but it’s been a bit hard going this week. Today is a nightmare!
We are left with 3. Obviously Cecil perfection, Spud 7yr entire lab and daughters tiny Yorkie x entire who just turned 1 and is the main issue.
He’s obsessively trying to mount Cecil, it’s like he’s attached to him with invisible string, poor Cecil didn’t appear to notice for ages but it’s ridiculous now and he’s now getting a seconds peace. Spud will then get involved trying to protect Cecil.
D’s dog, Basil has this demented look ? he’s panting constantly and just being a complete pita. (This is particularly bad today, it’s usually bearable)
So I believe he’s old enough to castrate now.
He is an incredibly nervous little soul though and I’ve heard that having them done early, before 2 can make this worse? If she hadn’t had him since 8 weeks I’d swear he’d come from a bad back ground and had horrible experiences with people.
My daughter is home today which is great at in all honesty I’d be a bit worried to go and leave them unattended.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Please intervene before someone gets hurt. This should have happened a long time ago.
Never leave them unattended.
Nerves and nervousness are largely genetic.

 

[MissTyc]

You might want to consider the suprlorin implant, short/medium-term chemical castration, before proceeding to the real deal. Anxious dogs often need their testosterone for confidence, but they all react differently to castration. Humping is a behaviour that they can be trained out of. Some dogs do it out of anxiety in which case castration wouldn't help. I'd recommend keeping them separately until this phase passes as Cecil might well retaliate at some point and injuries can occur to the humper's penis too! - could he be scenting a nearby bitch at all?

 

[stangs]

I don't know if neutering early makes things worse, but, generally speaking, the lack of testosterone can increase previous anxiety levels.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I would get a crate for Basil, so that you can leave them safely. Then I would speak to the vet about neutering, take their advice and take it from there

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Separate!

Bear did anxiety related humping when he was in my cousin’s house with a very playful doodle puppy, bigger than him. Removing from the situation was the easy solution. He’s castrated, was done at 2.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Please intervene before someone gets hurt. This should have happened a long time ago.
Never leave them unattended.
Nerves and nervousness are largely genetic.

We were told not to before 12/18 months. He was only 1 at the end of Jan.
I’ve told her to put him in his crate if she leaves them at all.

 

[poiuytrewq]

No bitches nearby. Basil does have a crate for overnight use so he can easily use that during the day as required.
Will call the vets. Thanks

 

[skinnydipper]

Testosterone starts to rise at about 5 months, peaks at around 10/12 months then slowly falls to adult levels.

I would wait until he is mature before making any decisions.

My preference is to leave entire and would definitely not have an anxious dog castrated.

 

[CorvusCorax]

We were told not to before 12/18 months. He was only 1 at the end of Jan.
I’ve told her to put him in his crate if she leaves them at all.

I didn't mean cut his balls off to rectify a behavioural problem that has been allowed to become ingrained by the humans he lives with, I mean tell him not to/physically stop him from doing it.
The fact that you assumed I meant a medical intervention rather than you as owners stepping in, illustrates the problem.
Stop being a bystander and then wondering how to stop things that should have been stopped a long time ago.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm having to deal with this stuff daily and it's extremely frustrating.
Telling a dog not to do something shouldn't mean it's world collapses.
Yes a scalpel might help but you taking control as an owner would be the best thing to do.

 

[Clodagh]

I can’t bear humping or sex pest dogs, we also never used to neuter them (haven’t had one for years) so Scout hopes to keep his nadgers.
It does mean though I am hawklike in looking for even a hint of a hump. It helps that he lives with a bunch of middle aged women who are equally averse. Tbh so far not a hint of it even when he’s excited but I feel your pain.
As he is nervous are you loathe to tell him off? I’m not sure how to deal with that.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I didn't mean cut his balls off to rectify a behavioural problem that has been allowed to become ingrained by the humans he lives with, I mean tell him not to/physically stop him from doing it.
The fact that you assumed I meant a medical intervention rather than you as owners stepping in, illustrates the problem.
Stop being a bystander and then wondering how to stop things that should have been stopped a long time ago.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but I'm having to deal with this stuff daily and it's extremely frustrating.
Telling a dog not to do something shouldn't mean it's world collapses.
Yes a scalpel might help but you taking control as an owner would be the best thing to do.

He started this once months ago and we stopped it. It’s a very recent thing that he’s just started doing again and this morning being a real problem.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I can’t bear humping or sex pest dogs, we also never used to neuter them (haven’t had one for years) so Scout hopes to keep his nadgers.
It does mean though I am hawklike in looking for even a hint of a hump. It helps that he lives with a bunch of middle aged women who are equally averse. Tbh so far not a hint of it even when he’s excited but I feel your pain.
As he is nervous are you loathe to tell him off? I’m not sure how to deal with that.

No I’m fine to tell him off. He’s not nervous of us. It’s other people. If someone new comes into the house or tried to say hello to him.

 

[Moobli]

I’d try the chemical castration route before surgical. It will give you an indication as to whether it will help with the problem humping but also show whether losing testosterone will make him more anxious or change his temperament in other detrimental (or otherwise) ways. Be aware it doesn’t work immediately though (needs a few weeks) and there’s often a spike in testosterone initially.
I’d also be correcting the behaviour and separating them until he calms down.

 

[CorvusCorax]

He started this once months ago and we stopped it. It’s a very recent thing that he’s just started doing again and this morning being a real problem.

So watch them and step in every time. It's unfair on all three dogs to leave them in this position. One stressed and sex obsessed, one getting ridden against his will and another thinking he has to step in (your job/his owners job).
Your words were 'Cecil is not getting a minutes peace', well that's a minute too long. If you can't watch them, crate.

 

[I'm Dun]

One of mine did that at about the same age. We sorted it very quickly. Even thinking about humping something meant he went into time out. We calmly got up, didnt look at him or the other dogs, and just matter of factly put him on the otherside of the door and closed it. 30seconds later he was allowed back in, door opened, no eye contact made and the door opener just casually went and sat back down as if nothing had happened. I think we must have done that 400 times the first day, but by day 3 he had stopped.

The behaviour would occasionally reappear if exciting things happened, but by that point one or two timeouts woul always be enough to get his brains back in his head and not his genitals.

He had the implant at 3 for a marking problem, it did help and didnt cause any issues with him. Its slowly runs out and he never really went back to it, so for us it was a success. It hasnt been for others so you need to do your research.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Was chatting to another owner whilst in Newcastle one day. We watched as another owner dragged her frankly slavering lab round then she stood and watched. Bear was retrieving, border terrier on lead. I asked the lab owner if she was letting off her dog, cos if she had, I’d have made a quick exit. Apparently he was chemically castrated but according to the Bt owner, it had made no difference and the lab was still a real pain. Dunno if she’d done it to calm aggression or humping.

At the vet this morning, there was another slavering lab in for castration. I picked Mitch up, didn’t fancy his chances in a small space versus extremely excitable dog 5 times his size. I’m hoping to keep our 2 entire. On balance, the benefits/disadvantages seem pretty equivalent with a slight bias towards leaving them entire. I’ll see if I can find the studies I found most persuasive.
http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

https://ivcjournal.com/spay-neuter-...PgvOOeD8hGJ5GxAx2Vjq6ygVCvPfn_XXp6MRG7NLDPDZ8

 

[poiuytrewq]

Thanks.
I just want to say this has come about quickly and I haven’t sat and watched them, I’ve been telling Basil off and shutting him out. It’s got too constant today (and it’s only 10.30 again I’ve not just ignored it all day)
I’ve come here to ask for advice on how to handle it as following vets advice he was planned to be done at closer to 2 (discussed before this happened) I’m a long time dog owner but just haven’t experienced this before hence asking for advice.

 

[MissTyc]

Testosterone levels do go through two peaks before adulthood with the second one being greater than the first
This could be linked to the increased humping a few months ago (first peak) and again now (second peak), in which case as long as you can gently correct and redirect him he should hopefully grow out of it as the levels settle. I'd always opt for longer-term separation rather than reactive separation i.e. if you could throw up a room divider and keep them completely apart for a while, he might forget he wants/needs to hump his friend, or he might start humping an inanimate object like a pillow which I find much much easier for training (actually my entire terrier was allowed one hump toy, "monkey", but he stopped fancying monkey around 14-15 months and when monkey left the building, we saw no other amorous efforts).

 

[Mynstrel]

It can be down to over excitement rather than a sexual thing, is yours an exciting household? Do you need to work on calmness or is one of the others doing something that fires him up to the point where he doesn't know what to do with himself? Our rescue gets grumpy when our spangle is having a mad one, not the same but a similar situation.

 

[planete]

Castration is actually unlikely to stop humping once it has become an ingrained habit. I would not tell the dog off but leave a house line on him (no handle) and remove him without any fuss every time he shows any inclination to try and hump. He sounds over stimulated, has he learnt a solid 'settle down' command?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

It can be excitement/frustration. Cant remember the last time Quarrie humped anything although he did have a phase with a cushion as a pup. Fitz was more of a humper but its rare these days-last time was when I had been ill and not able to get them out off the lead for a run. Neither have been castrated and are now nearly 6.

Agree with others, dont leave them alone, tell him off, distract/whatever works. In a multidog household especially, they all need to know time out means time out and get to your beds means dont even think about getting off until I say so.

 

[poiuytrewq]

This evening normality has been resumed, thank god. Cecil is asleep in front of the fire and Basil is sat quietly with me ?
They have been apart all day give or take.
I do think the last few replies may have hit the nail on the head. Thinking about it he’s been very revved up recently, when I let them in the house spud will bounce around a bit and basil has been a bit mad about that, I’ve been picking him up and just making him be quiet/calm before he is allowed down with us all.
No he doesn’t have a good settle command and we have been working on that.
He’s really like a different dog to earlier, really hope it was a one off bad day but will definitely be working on the calming before castrating!
Thank you!

 

[poiuytrewq]

Castration is actually unlikely to stop humping once it has become an ingrained habit. I would not tell the dog off but leave a house line on him (no handle) and remove him without any fuss every time he shows any inclination to try and hump. He sounds over stimulated, has he learnt a solid 'settle down' command?

I’m just trying to look out an old light puppy lead, I figure I can cut the loop handle off that.
Do you have any advice on getting a good settle response?

 

[planete]

I’m just trying to look out an old light puppy lead, I figure I can cut the loop handle off that.
Do you have any advice on getting a good settle response?

It is a long time since I needed to train it. I seem to remember bribery and perseverance, only asking for a short time at first, releasing the dog before he gets too fed up...Good luck. All mine are over 10 years old now!

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It is often noticeable that it takes a while for a pack to reorganise themselves when a member dies, especially if that member was a key figure.
We had our Rottweiler pts before Christmas and the others are noticeably rudderless, they are fussing about food,more than they ever did before, even though they have both stepped up to cover many of her duties, e.g. the yellow one now barks at the doorbell ringing.
So your problem could be a manifestation of the change in the dynamic of your pack. Long may the peace reign!

 

[skinnydipper]

Do you have any advice on getting a good settle response?

I don't use a crate/cage so I teach "on your bed" which is the dog's own bed and also "on the mat" which is a piece of vet bed.

Mat training is handy if you are going somewhere like a cafe and want him to settle. You can just roll it up and put it in a yoga mat bag and take it with you.

Go to the mat, call your dog, ask him to lie on the mat and reward him for doing so and then use your release word, I use OK, and then throw a treat away from the mat so that he leaves the mat and you can call him back again. Rinse and repeat. Each time you ask him to lie on the mat, slightly extend the period you are asking him to stay in a down before you release him. Maybe do it half a dozen times each session, a few times a day, for as many days as is necessary.

When he is lying down for longer periods have the mat near your chair and reward him periodically for not moving from the mat without actually releasing him. If he leaves the mat before you have released him just call him back again and ask him to lie down.

You will get to the point when you can just say "on your bed" or "on the mat" and he will go and settle without rewarding or throwing treats.

Hope that helps.

 

[poiuytrewq]

It is a long time since I needed to train it. I seem to remember bribery and perseverance, only asking for a short time at first, releasing the dog before he gets too fed up...Good luck. All mine are over 10 years old now!

Haha! Thanks, I was trying to think but lab seems to have known “bed” for as long as I remember! He’s our last puppy before these monsters and he’s now 7.
We did cover it at Cecils lessons but it was something he never really got the hang of. We trickle fed treats on a mat but he just got excited at the constant bits of food!
I may invest in a few more kongs!

 

[poiuytrewq]

I don't use a crate/cage so I teach "on your bed" which is the dog's own bed and also "on the mat" which is a piece of vet bed.

Mat training is handy if you are going somewhere like a cafe and want him to settle. You can just roll it up and put it in a yoga mat bag and take it with you.

Go the mat, call your dog, ask him to lie on the mat and reward him for doing so and then use your release word, I use OK, and then throw a treat away from the mat so that he leaves the mat and you can call him back again. Rinse and repeat. Each time you ask him to lie on the mat, slightly extend the period you are asking him to stay in a down before you release him. Maybe do it half a dozen times each session, a few times a day, for as many days as is necessary.

When he is lying down for longer periods have the mat near your chair and reward him periodically for not moving from the mat without actually releasing him. If he leaves the mat before you have released him just call him back again and ask him to lie down.

You will get to the point when you can just say "on your bed" or "on the mat" and he will go and settle without rewarding or throwing treats.

Hope that helps.

Very helpful thank you. I will definitely have another good go at this.

 

[Mynstrel]

I’m just trying to look out an old light puppy lead, I figure I can cut the loop handle off that.
Do you have any advice on getting a good settle response?

Google boundary games, that might give you some ideas