CDJ withdrawn from paris

onemoretime said:
Both Pammy and her daughter are very fired up! Haven't got a clue who they are talking about though. Anyone know when this happened?
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Very recently if it was the person whose name was dropped on the post. If it was the person mentioned then they'd been at Wellington Regionals the other day and posting widely about it on fb. Suspect you'd keep as low a profile as possible if the incident had happened before.
 
Oh yes, there is now a name drop. But I've never heard of them before.

I have no idea why the secrecy on FB. It is perfectly legal and not harmful to a trial to report that someone has been arrested, charged and bailed. Look at the likes of Cliff Richard when his house was searched, and nothing was found - it was live streamed on TV! That is how he found out about it, as he wasn't home at the time. The number of people accused of stuff and reported, only to be found not guilty. It does sound as if this one is an open and shut case though! His supporters calling for it to be kept quiet for the good of dressage.

I won't drop a mane here as it would get this thread removed if they object, but I have never heard of the man.

It does sound like a sustained and vicious assault though, with blood all over the house and the perpetrator. The victim sounds in a bad way too. I dare say it will hit Google soon!
 
I have said multiple times on this thread that there should be a zero tolerance policy against abuse. That it should be called out immediately and punished appropriately.

If someone has been beaten to a pulp and hospitalised then I should hope that the attacker will lose their place on the team and be blacklisted by the horse world, sending out a clear message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances.

I can't help but draw attention to the irony and hypocrisy that very recently, Pammy said we should 'forgive and forget' Andreas Helgrstrand's abuses, which have been video documented over the course of a decade. He has abused not just the horses under his 'care', but the grooms and riders working for him. Horses SHOULD have the same protections against abuse as humans, but I feel it's important to point out that abusers aren't picky about their victims.

I know that many people will disagree with me on this, but I strongly feel that the horse world in particular is a breeding ground for abuse. Abuse towards horses is so normalised from livery yard hobby riders all the way up to the highest levels, that abusers are able to hide in plain sight. It is hardly surprising that those who abuse horses also abuse people. Why do we have this double standard?

My first personal experience of this was being abused by a teenage girl who worked at my childhood riding school. She whipped the yard dogs, beat the horses in their stables and deliberately put me in an accident for which I still have the scars to prove it. I was only a little girl at the time and she was protected by an adult staff member who witnessed what she did - my parents would not learn the truth until years later as I was too scared to tell them what really happened. I sometimes wonder if that piece of work is still out there doing the same thing, decades later, because no-one stopped her when she was a teenager.
 
Red-1 said:
Oh yes, there is now a name drop. But I've never heard of them before.

I have no idea why the secrecy on FB. It is perfectly legal and not harmful to a trial to report that someone has been arrested, charged and bailed. Look at the likes of Cliff Richard when his house was searched, and nothing was found - it was live streamed on TV! That is how he found out about it, as he wasn't home at the time. The number of people accused of stuff and reported, only to be found not guilty. It does sound as if this one is an open and shut case though! His supporters calling for it to be kept quiet for the good of dressage.

I won't drop a mane here as it would get this thread removed if they object, but I have never heard of the man.

It does sound like a sustained and vicious assault though, with blood all over the house and the perpetrator. The victim sounds in a bad way too. I dare say it will hit Google soon!
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There’s a blurred line between gossip and facts though so there are better ways of posting things imho, especially when anyone can see it, and that includes potentially the victim at some point…

I recognise the name, they’d had a successful week at said regionals too.
 
You can change ‘submission’ to ‘cooperation’ all you like but I can’t see any way in which dressage (and other horse sports) and horse welfare can ever go hand in hand.

Wherever horses are put into unnatural and damaging lifestyles (stabled 24/7, only individual turnout etc) and forced - because they are forced, let’s be honest, they don’t choose it - to perform unnatural movements in restrictive tack, you are going to have a welfare issue.

I spent many years as a competition groom and rider. What was completely normal to me at that time, sickens me now.

Dressage is of course facing an impossible task trying to convince the public that it’s horse friendly….because it’s not.
 
THIS is why nothing will ever change

I would like to say that he has a history of violence to horses too. This is not the first time he has lost his temper …
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comment by PH

So PH knew about abuse to horses and hasn't bothered to report it or call it out. But her friend got a serious kicking and now its ok to start mentioning about horse abuse. Apparently she has PMs.

They all make me sick. The bunch of disgusting hypocrites.
 
I'm Dun said:
THIS is why nothing will ever change

comment by PH

So PH knew about abuse to horses and hasn't bothered to report it or call it out. But her friend got a serious kicking and now its ok to start mentioning about horse abuse. Apparently she has PMs.

They all make me sick. The bunch of disgusting hypocrites.
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This x 1000!!

JenJ said:
Quite. Especially as she said this:

View attachment 155728
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Is this alluding to him abusing horses? Which they all seem to have swept under the rug up until the point that he assaulted another human? Make it make sense.
 
Miss_Millie said:
This x 1000!!



Is this alluding to him abusing horses? Which they all seem to have swept under the rug up until the point that he assaulted another human? Make it make sense.
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Not that I am saying this is right as I think we all have a responsibility to call out abusive practices in our sport particularly since animals cannot speak for themselves however, I can see why there may be some reluctance to call our prior abuse against the horses. Here the perpetrator has seemingly been charged showing clear evidence of abuse. There hasn’t to my knowledge been any criminal charge or even investigation meaning unless a person has very good evidence they willl likely be reluctant to call out previous abuse as it opens them up to defamation. Again, not that it is right but I can see why there would be a reluctance in today’s world.
 
Barklands said:
Not that I am saying this is right as I think we all have a responsibility to call out abusive practices in our sport particularly since animals cannot speak for themselves however, I can see why there may be some reluctance to call our prior abuse against the horses. Here the perpetrator has seemingly been charged showing clear evidence of abuse. There hasn’t to my knowledge been any criminal charge or even investigation meaning unless a person has very good evidence they willl likely be reluctant to call out previous abuse as it opens them up to defamation. Again, not that it is right but I can see why there would be a reluctance in today’s world.
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I think people are wondering more why any horse abuse wasn't called out at the time (presumably some time prior to the current offence) on its own merits if PH et al are so concerned about preventing it. Rather than just mentioning it in an off-hand manner as though its only relevance is as means of understanding the violence towards a person.
 
Usually you would expect people to be scared to speak up about abuse when it's coming from those with more power than you i.e. pupils of CDJ not wanting to talk against her. But in this case, if the alleged abuser has also been known to have abused horses previously, then why haven't people in positions of power compared to him - eg PH and NB - spoken out. Surely, they would have been able to wield some influence.

Disclaimer: I know nothing of this person, had never heard of him until I read his name in a comment on a PH FB post, and am not implying that he has or hasn't abused horses; I simply do not know and my points above are hypothetical.
 
I also don't really know anything about this person but what's weird is I nearly posted about them on this thread a while ago. It's one of those accounts I don't follow but FB suggested and the video was a very young big moving young horse and I had a thought about such a high score. And a big 3yo being ridden in an outline in arena for training. I had a thought about that too.
 
The alleged abuser, is a well known dressage rider in these parts. I know nothing about his 'violent temper' or if he abused horses, but have never been impressed with his way of riding - very heavy handed and horses often BTV, although have seen some improvement recently. I have written for judges several times whilst he was competing, and it was often mentioned, although he would still do well. I know some riders who have trained with him, and they ride in a similar style. It is also very similar to how NB trains, having sat and watched a couple of lessons she was giving to my friend. Neither are people I would have anywhere near my horse.
I've never had any interactions with PH but have seen a few of her posts recently and she seems to be losing it. And again, I think she is too 'old school'.
 
Miss_Millie said:
This x 1000!!



Is this alluding to him abusing horses? Which they all seem to have swept under the rug up until the point that he assaulted another human? Make it make sense.
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its not just another human, its because they are a personal friend. PH made that very clear. She is happy to go to war for her friend, but not for the horses.

Ironically if the horse abuse had been reported and highlighted, it probably would have prevented the human abuse as people tend to leave others when stuff like that comes out.
 
Miss_Millie said:
I have said multiple times on this thread that there should be a zero tolerance policy against abuse. That it should be called out immediately and punished appropriately.

If someone has been beaten to a pulp and hospitalised then I should hope that the attacker will lose their place on the team and be blacklisted by the horse world, sending out a clear message that this kind of behaviour will not be tolerated under any circumstances.

I can't help but draw attention to the irony and hypocrisy that very recently, Pammy said we should 'forgive and forget' Andreas Helgrstrand's abuses, which have been video documented over the course of a decade. He has abused not just the horses under his 'care', but the grooms and riders working for him. Horses SHOULD have the same protections against abuse as humans, but I feel it's important to point out that abusers aren't picky about their victims.

I know that many people will disagree with me on this, but I strongly feel that the horse world in particular is a breeding ground for abuse. Abuse towards horses is so normalised from livery yard hobby riders all the way up to the highest levels, that abusers are able to hide in plain sight. It is hardly surprising that those who abuse horses also abuse people. Why do we have this double standard?

My first personal experience of this was being abused by a teenage girl who worked at my childhood riding school. She whipped the yard dogs, beat the horses in their stables and deliberately put me in an accident for which I still have the scars to prove it. I was only a little girl at the time and she was protected by an adult staff member who witnessed what she did - my parents would not learn the truth until years later as I was too scared to tell them what really happened. I sometimes wonder if that piece of work is still out there doing the same thing, decades later, because no-one stopped her when she was a teenager.
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Shocking.
 
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