SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I also noticed while following trail to person named in comments on NB insta, that NB happily sharing pics from Helgstrand.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Need a vomit emoji for that
They should start a new sport - mental gymnastics. They're already so good at it!
Ditchjumper2
Well-Known Member
I notice PH post has now been deleted!
AdorableAlice
Well-Known Member
Should have been deleted as soon as it was published, the woman is way out of order. If there has been an offence of such a serious nature, the matter should be dealt with by the police and jury, not Mrs Hutton and social media.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Pammy Huttons daughter has been very ill.I think and hope that things are OK now but I think it frightened Pammy to her core.She is the sort of person who has always thought of herself as tough and has discovered that she is maybe not quite as tough as she thought. I wonder if it hadn't destabilised her a bit.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
She's also 75, and even in fit people that comes with cognitive decline. (Speaking from experience, don't shoot me or tell me your 90 year old granny is as sharp as she ever was. How much it shows depends on where you started from! )
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Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Concerns over horses’ ‘blue tongues’ and open mouths pictured at World Cup qualifier
A group of veterinary researchers has submitted photographers of dressage horses with open mouths and compressed tongues to the FEI for investigation
www.horseandhound.co.uk
The first comment on the FB page to this article?
"Click bait. until the veterinary profession reaches a conclusion please God may the Karen's stay in their box"
Maddie Moo
Well-Known Member
Concerns over horses’ ‘blue tongues’ and open mouths pictured at World Cup qualifier
A group of veterinary researchers has submitted photographers of dressage horses with open mouths and compressed tongues to the FEI for investigation
The first comment on the FB page to this article?
"Click bait. until the veterinary profession reaches a conclusion please God may the Karen's stay in their box"
And quite a few people liking the comment as well
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
I can't see that comment (maybe removed?) but I am sick of this 'we need to see videos' stuff. There is no high-definition video available and even if there were a video is just a series of stills. 18 frames a second is not far off the normal video fps rate so a series of still photos taken that close together should actually be considered better evidence than a video in which much detail is not available to the human eye. What the rider happens to be doing with their hand that causes the horse to gape is completely irrelevant. If your riding relies on the hand to that degree, go home. And don't witter on about how happy the spectators were or I might get the impression your fan base are all abuse junkies.Concerns over horses’ ‘blue tongues’ and open mouths pictured at World Cup qualifier
A group of veterinary researchers has submitted photographers of dressage horses with open mouths and compressed tongues to the FEI for investigation
The first comment on the FB page to this article?
"Click bait. until the veterinary profession reaches a conclusion please God may the Karen's stay in their box"
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
It's all just more evidence that the world has currently gone mad.
I truly think we've diverged off into some alternate timeline at some point in the last year, klaxons are sounding, we're not supposed to be here.
Please, let normality and sanity show itself soon!!
I truly think we've diverged off into some alternate timeline at some point in the last year, klaxons are sounding, we're not supposed to be here.
Please, let normality and sanity show itself soon!!
scats
Well-Known Member
I fear it’s largely the norm now at that level, to require so much pressure down the reins that it compresses the tongue to such an extent.
A by-product of breeding this extra hot type of dressage horse that people favour now?
NO horse should be having the blood flow reduced to any part of its body, just so someone can ride it. It’s that simple.
If you need that much pressure on a horses mouth, well that’s the total opposite of the training and harmony that dressage is meant to be about.
A by-product of breeding this extra hot type of dressage horse that people favour now?
NO horse should be having the blood flow reduced to any part of its body, just so someone can ride it. It’s that simple.
If you need that much pressure on a horses mouth, well that’s the total opposite of the training and harmony that dressage is meant to be about.
PurpleSpots
Well-Known Member
I fully agree.
But if you train any horse, any animal, in a way which is sympathetic to them there wouldn't be any need for such harsh methods of control
.It's 2025, we know better than this. Or we should!
misst
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be nice if one of the riders said OMG how awful I didn't realise that was happening. I must change my riding and training. Of course that is never going to happen
instead we get ridiculous excuses.
instead we get ridiculous excuses.I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be nice if one of the riders said OMG how awful I didn't realise that was happening. I must change my riding and training. Of course that is never going to happen
Ironically I see that happen over and over and over and over with amateurs. They either refuse to do whats needed in the first place or they try it and realise its not ok and change tack. Theres been a huge shift. I look back at some of the thing I did and cringe. I was taught in the days of give it a smack and ride through it, its just being naughty. Thankfully that seems to be slowly changing.
stangs
Well-Known Member
They may well be thinking that behind the scenes and working with their trainers to change it. Just comparing London and the Olympics last year, I noticed riders who seemed to be riding with more open frames and softer contacts. But, realistically, they can't admit to having had a lack of knowledge in the public eye because it would damage their reputation, which in turn would affect their livelihoods.Wouldn't it be nice if one of the riders said OMG how awful I didn't realise that was happening. I must change my riding and training. Of course that is never going to happen
It also wouldn't be good PR for the sport, but God knows some of these riders' responses are horrid PR to begin with.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
They say it because they want to continue hurting horses in order to win medals. That's it. That's all there is to it, and until the FEI or IOC takes a definitive stance for the wellbeing of the animals, nothing will change. And I mean nothing.Concerns over horses’ ‘blue tongues’ and open mouths pictured at World Cup qualifier
A group of veterinary researchers has submitted photographers of dressage horses with open mouths and compressed tongues to the FEI for investigation
The first comment on the FB page to this article?
"Click bait. until the veterinary profession reaches a conclusion please God may the Karen's stay in their box"
Traks
Well-Known Member
Back to the original topic, when does CDJ's ban end? I think she was due her second baby last month and nothing has been written about it.
Was anyone at the National Equine Show and heard Carl speak at the end? It was really interesting, he didn't specifically refer to Charlotte but you could tell who he was inferring in his chat! He has done a good job of distancing himself from the whole event despite the close relationship they once had. Also very pleased to hear he is not retiring from competition and LA 2028 is a definite possibility, assuming he has the ride of Fame (or an equally good horse).
Was anyone at the National Equine Show and heard Carl speak at the end? It was really interesting, he didn't specifically refer to Charlotte but you could tell who he was inferring in his chat! He has done a good job of distancing himself from the whole event despite the close relationship they once had. Also very pleased to hear he is not retiring from competition and LA 2028 is a definite possibility, assuming he has the ride of Fame (or an equally good horse).
ycbm
Overwhelmed
The first comment on the FB page to this article?
"Click bait. until the veterinary profession reaches a conclusion please God may the Karen's stay in their box"
They need a vet to tell them that it isn't right for a horse's tongue to turn blue? I'd not be wanting to admit that publically!
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reynold
Well-Known Member
I come back full circle to something I've said before.
These methods of riding/training/competing are not just the norm to 'get results' but are also more the norm because of the type and behaviour of the horses being bred for these types of competitions.
The people photographed in high level competition are the tip of the iceberg. The same temperament type horses are bred in quantity and the 'cast offs' sold to wannabee amateurs, for whom they are mainly unsuitable as the riders aren't up to the standard of knowledge or skill to cope with such 'hot' horses and thus resort to the mistreatment of the top riders.
The wannabees think that because they have the horse type and the 'expert' trainer that they will get the results they seek. There are far more of them than the top tier riders, but their horses are unobserved, unlike the scrutiny slowly being put on the top riders - although due to the useless FEI that scrutiny is not yielding much change (hopefully 'yet' and things will get better).
In the meantime I worry about the 'hidden' dressage horses who are being mistreated in greater numbers and due to breeding for 'movement' rather than soundness are having very short and often painful lives. I go to groom still sometimes at low level BD and see a lot of these horses being hammered round the warmup in trot and canter for long periods to get them calmed down enough to go in the ring. Some of the heavy handed hand-brakes being used by the riders in snaffles are just as bad as the blue-tongue pressure.
IMO there should be 2 stewards at the standard BD warmups. One for the 'your next' and 'are they running late' queries and one solely focused on observing and challenging the riders and pulling them up on their riding as is necessary.
When I read of the death of Negro last week one of my first thoughts was 'did he survive to his old age because he stopped being able to compete due to injury in 2003'? Would he have lived so long if he'd continued competing?
These methods of riding/training/competing are not just the norm to 'get results' but are also more the norm because of the type and behaviour of the horses being bred for these types of competitions.
The people photographed in high level competition are the tip of the iceberg. The same temperament type horses are bred in quantity and the 'cast offs' sold to wannabee amateurs, for whom they are mainly unsuitable as the riders aren't up to the standard of knowledge or skill to cope with such 'hot' horses and thus resort to the mistreatment of the top riders.
The wannabees think that because they have the horse type and the 'expert' trainer that they will get the results they seek. There are far more of them than the top tier riders, but their horses are unobserved, unlike the scrutiny slowly being put on the top riders - although due to the useless FEI that scrutiny is not yielding much change (hopefully 'yet' and things will get better).
In the meantime I worry about the 'hidden' dressage horses who are being mistreated in greater numbers and due to breeding for 'movement' rather than soundness are having very short and often painful lives. I go to groom still sometimes at low level BD and see a lot of these horses being hammered round the warmup in trot and canter for long periods to get them calmed down enough to go in the ring. Some of the heavy handed hand-brakes being used by the riders in snaffles are just as bad as the blue-tongue pressure.
IMO there should be 2 stewards at the standard BD warmups. One for the 'your next' and 'are they running late' queries and one solely focused on observing and challenging the riders and pulling them up on their riding as is necessary.
When I read of the death of Negro last week one of my first thoughts was 'did he survive to his old age because he stopped being able to compete due to injury in 2003'? Would he have lived so long if he'd continued competing?
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
I think we may be pivoting back to the days when horses were entirely insensate, for convenience of course.
Barlow
Well-Known Member
I didn’t go but would be interested in hearing the gist of what he had to say please?
Traks
Well-Known Member
He said it was tough at the games in Paris with the last minute changes, Becky moody didn’t want to go and asked if she could basically withdraw as she was so overwhelmed but suddenly being asked to go. He reassured her she had earned her place etc so she did it. He also said he’s enjoying riding Fame so much and he basically has to keep competing him if he wants to keep the ride
so he will continue as long as he has the horses. He was singing Lottie fry’s praises too. They have a lot of history with her mum it sounded like. Sounds like she’s worked hard in Holland to be where she is. He was also taking about the different personalities on the GB team at London I think, he said he was basically looking after one person that was just thrilled to be there and assumed Charlotte was the one who he said “would step on their own mother to get ahead”
JenJ
Well-Known Member
Well, ouch.He was also taking about the different personalities on the GB team at London I think, he said he was basically looking after one person that was just thrilled to be there and assumed Charlotte was the one who he said “would step on their own mother to get ahead”
I guess that leaves no trace of doubt with regards to the status of their relationship these days...
Traks
Well-Known Member
He’s said before she’s very competitive but never heard him say so in quite such terms
He didn’t get asked anything about their relationship now or anything about her at all. Questions were definitely not on that topic!eahotson
Well-Known Member
Ouch.He said it was tough at the games in Paris with the last minute changes, Becky moody didn’t want to go and asked if she could basically withdraw as she was so overwhelmed but suddenly being asked to go. He reassured her she had earned her place etc so she did it. He also said he’s enjoying riding Fame so much and he basically has to keep competing him if he wants to keep the ride
He was also taking about the different personalities on the GB team at London I think, he said he was basically looking after one person that was just thrilled to be there and assumed Charlotte was the one who he said “would step on their own mother to get ahead”
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
And yet the dressage world seems to be rallying round people who have done objectively much worse things, including but not limited to AH.
ElleSkywalkingintheair
As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
He could have been talking about Laura TBH as they do have history with Carl having worked for her father and locked her in the tack room or something when she was a small annoying child. Although looking at the two people in question I would tend to agree the description fits Charlotte better.
Matafleur
Well-Known Member
He's said this really openly before, using pretty much the same expression, in front of her. It's never been a secret that she is highly ambitious, which isn't a bad thing by itself, nor should we be making it out to be.He said it was tough at the games in Paris with the last minute changes, Becky moody didn’t want to go and asked if she could basically withdraw as she was so overwhelmed but suddenly being asked to go. He reassured her she had earned her place etc so she did it. He also said he’s enjoying riding Fame so much and he basically has to keep competing him if he wants to keep the ride
He was also taking about the different personalities on the GB team at London I think, he said he was basically looking after one person that was just thrilled to be there and assumed Charlotte was the one who he said “would step on their own mother to get ahead”
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
Well, the consequences of great ambition for those in the orbit of the ambitious are frequently not fantastic.
Traks
Well-Known Member
Yes that was what I thought, it could have been someone else on the team but it’s open to interpretation