Ossy2
Well-Known Member
I think she will compete again even at a high level but I think it will be very difficult for a selector to put her a team especially for the Olympics.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
I haven't seen much evidence of less stressful training techniques, I'm afraid. I'm sure everything is going on as it always has out of the public eye. Not specifying any particular person here, though the spur happy woman at the championship was certainly stressing her poor horse. If they behave that way at the premiere league ,what do they do at home.
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CoachinaCar
Well-Known Member
If she fulfils the selection criteria and has better scores than other riders they will have to select her. They will not be able to discriminate against her once she has served her suspension.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Is it “discrimination” when it was clear animal abuse, which she admitted to?
CoachinaCar
Well-Known Member
Which she is serving a ban for as well as other restrictions. Once she has done that she will be free to compete, if she is allowed to compete she will be eligible to be selected.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
I understand the logistics and rules, I’m saying I don’t agree with the principle of it
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
I can't remember if this has already been suggested but if the animal in the video had been a dog what's the likelihood she'd have been prosecuted and banned from owning dogs for at least some years. I don't know why that's not an appropriate sanction here but I'm not sure if a prosecution was ever even mooted.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
She has not had a life time ban.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
I know she hasn’t
eahotson
Well-Known Member
I have seen things in the ring,in front of judges and audience that I would have said that about.NOTHING was done .No bans,fines,reprimands,nothing
scats
Well-Known Member
I honestly don’t think much, if anything, will change.
In a few years time it will have all been swept under the carpet and things will just carry on as they are.
In a few years time it will have all been swept under the carpet and things will just carry on as they are.
teapot
Well-Known Member
People have been overlooked for team selection for less...
Traks
Well-Known Member
I agree, the main reason being the incident was made such massive news in the mainstream media with all the national and a lot of international press and media covering it…a large proportion of viewers with zero knowledge of dressage or anything equestrian at all. Which will make her almost impossible to “sell” as a potential UK competitor. Image is everything in the press.
I feel she’ll probably still train and ride horses for people at a high-ish level, but her days of competing for her country are now over.
reynold
Well-Known Member
New calls for urgent action to prevent ‘blue tongues’ and signs of pain in dressage horses - Horse & Hound
The FEI has acknowledged the need to “explore a more balanced and comprehensive view of the sport”, after evidence was provided of “potential welfare issues hiding in plain sight”. H&H reported on pictures sent to the FEI, of “blue tongues” and open mouths in horses competing in World Cup...
www.horseandhound.co.uk
The blue tongue 'oh it's only a split second moment in time' defence is wearing thin....
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Urgent action when we’ve been looking at blue tongues for 16 years (that was the patril kittel furore, 2009) but urgent obviously
canteron
Well-Known Member
We can hope they do something, but the last paragraph seems they are still in denial.
I fear the FEI are not flexibly minded enough to accept they might not have got it right.
I fear the FEI are not flexibly minded enough to accept they might not have got it right.
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
The FEI are never going to make the changes necessary to ensure that sport horses are really comfortable and protected. They are there to protect horse sport, not horses.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Agree sadly.
reynold
Well-Known Member
People – not double bridles – are the issue, says study, as education for riders is key
Researchers have found that double bridles exert similar or less nasal pressure and rein tension than snaffles in elite horses
www.horseandhound.co.uk
As I've said before on this thread - it's not the double bridle per se, it's the hands that hold the reins that is at fault.
Above is a follow on article from one last year which reported on a scientific study into the varying pressure of snaffle bits v double bridles and also various types of noseband.
As mentioned in the H&H the full scientific report is available free to read from the journal 'Animal' here:
eahotson
Well-Known Member
We are told that bitless is not allowed because the judges want to see relaxation of the jaw .Blue tongues hardly show relaxation of the jaw.People – not double bridles – are the issue, says study, as education for riders is key
Researchers have found that double bridles exert similar or less nasal pressure and rein tension than snaffles in elite horses
As I've said before on this thread - it's not the double bridle per se, it's the hands that hold the reins that is at fault.
Above is a follow on article from one last year which reported on a scientific study into the varying pressure of snaffle bits v double bridles and also various types of noseband.
As mentioned in the H&H the full scientific report is available free to read from the journal 'Animal' here:
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
I suppose the thing is like you say those hands are problematic. It makes me think of if you can't play nicely with your toys they need to be taken away!People – not double bridles – are the issue, says study, as education for riders is key
Researchers have found that double bridles exert similar or less nasal pressure and rein tension than snaffles in elite horses
As I've said before on this thread - it's not the double bridle per se, it's the hands that hold the reins that is at fault.
Above is a follow on article from one last year which reported on a scientific study into the varying pressure of snaffle bits v double bridles and also various types of noseband.
As mentioned in the H&H the full scientific report is available free to read from the journal 'Animal' here:
I can't honestly see drastic change unless there is a real threat of losing dressage (and other horse sports) at the Olympics.
BurntontheoutsideTurkey
Well-Known Member
A couple of things. For some horses, possibly very many, the double really is a problem in of itself as they don't have the room for two mouthpieces. Indeed if you look at the work of Cristina Wilkins a lot of horses (most) don't have 'room' for any bit, as it always takes up space that would otherwise be occupied by the tongue.People – not double bridles – are the issue, says study, as education for riders is key
Researchers have found that double bridles exert similar or less nasal pressure and rein tension than snaffles in elite horses
As I've said before on this thread - it's not the double bridle per se, it's the hands that hold the reins that is at fault.
Above is a follow on article from one last year which reported on a scientific study into the varying pressure of snaffle bits v double bridles and also various types of noseband.
As mentioned in the H&H the full scientific report is available free to read from the journal 'Animal' here:
Also, while doing this study was the curb chain done up as tightly as possible and the mouth gaping, so as to replicate real world conditions (for many horses)?
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
Yeah... like I appreciate the study, any research is helpful for prompting more research, but is noseband pressure really what people are most concerned about?
eahotson
Well-Known Member
To a degree..There is a reason why so many are over tightened.
reynold
Well-Known Member
Noseband pressure is also relevant to the discussion around bitless being allowed in dressage as fundamentally bitless works by noseband pressure.
It is also interesting that - I believe this was mentioned further up this thread - double bridles are used extensively in showing and yet similar blue tongue problems don't seem to exist (or at least not extensively). Showing does have it's own problems of obesity, etc. of course.
Having started riding in the late 50s/early 60s with a 'military' instructor I have ridden extensively with double bridles and done a fair bit of showing in one. Hence I do take the stand that it is the hands that hold the reins (and tighten the noseband) and not the double itself that is the problem, especially with the advances in bit design in the last 30 or so years.
It is also interesting that - I believe this was mentioned further up this thread - double bridles are used extensively in showing and yet similar blue tongue problems don't seem to exist (or at least not extensively). Showing does have it's own problems of obesity, etc. of course.
Having started riding in the late 50s/early 60s with a 'military' instructor I have ridden extensively with double bridles and done a fair bit of showing in one. Hence I do take the stand that it is the hands that hold the reins (and tighten the noseband) and not the double itself that is the problem, especially with the advances in bit design in the last 30 or so years.
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
I suppose it is a linked issue. You over tighten the noseband so they can't evade (or show discomfort because of) the pressure on the tongue and bars of the mouth. But the noseband pressure isn't the origin of the problem. It just seems like without also studying the mouth pressure the noseband study isn't that useful.
eahotson
Well-Known Member
Also a tightened noseband adds to poll pressure.With my old boy I once experimented.Put bridle on, put finger under the headband and then started to tighten the noseband.I was amazed to find out how much pressure I could achieve.
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Yes but it’s also a much easier thing to measure/have a rule for in the field.
smolmaus
Well-Known Member
True. I'm not saying it's without all value, but I just don't see it as a "gotcha, the equipment isn't the problem at all!" study that the article (or the headline, anyway) is presenting it as.
reynold
Well-Known Member
I suppose what I'm really getting at is that dressage should have the same sort of 'Official Warning' and 'Yellow Cards' for riders that are now used in eventing for things such as bad riding, pushing a tired horse, etc. With fixed hands producing blue tongues classified as bad riding and penalties applied to the rider after the class/competition has concluded based on video reviews of every test and rider that comes under scrutiny.
In eventing an accumulation of warnings/cards leads to periods of suspension from competition for the rider.
The study is good in that it is factual and not opinion based and more of this is needed (the study did measure bit pressure on the bars of the mouth and poll pressure as well as noseband pressure).
Judging modification is also essential to overcoming what is patently so wrong for horse welfare at the moment in dressage.
In eventing an accumulation of warnings/cards leads to periods of suspension from competition for the rider.
The study is good in that it is factual and not opinion based and more of this is needed (the study did measure bit pressure on the bars of the mouth and poll pressure as well as noseband pressure).
Judging modification is also essential to overcoming what is patently so wrong for horse welfare at the moment in dressage.