CDJ withdrawn from paris

daffy44 said:
The rule is not about dressage horses, it refers only to show jumpers, no other discipline is changing their blood rules (so far).
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But I am talking about it in the context of sport overall and the amount of blood that has been seen on dressage horses

The showjumpers are more likely to have unintentional injury than the dressage horses
 
tristars said:
But I am talking about it in the context of sport overall and the amount of blood that has been seen on dressage horses

The showjumpers are more likely to have unintentional injury than the dressage horses
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But the rule refers to the show jumpers, not the dressage horses, if blood is seen on a dressage horse it still means instant elimination.
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
I also dont like how horse "sports" receive lottery funding in this country, when theres far more worthy causes e.g. charities/community projects, they need it far more than those bankrolled by rich connections
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I’m not sure it sits quite right with me either that an Olympic rider can sell their horse after the Olympics and make a lot of money because it’s been on an Olympic team. No other athletes can profit like that. Plus if they have received funding to go to the Olympics shouldn’t they pay that money back when they sell the horse. Does anyone feel similarly?
 
It confirms my belief that the FEI is not fit ofr purpose. They are doing nothing to ensure the safety and wellbeing of the true atheletes at the centre of the sport - the horses. They are doing nothing to enusre that equestrian sport is ethical and humane. They are doing nothing to maintain the SOL.


I was glad and relieved that BS voted against the modifications, and have stated they will maintain zero tolerance to any blood.
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
…Let’s not forget that the athletes are at the centre of our sport, nobody else.
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To my mind, the horses ARE athletes, as much as the riders (if not, perhaps more so), because I don’t imagine that any of those riders would be jumping 1.60m horseless.

So, I think horses should be the ones given priority. Even if bleeding wasn’t directly caused by a rider, it should still warrant investigation as a medical welfare concern, so horses should be withdrawn from competition- regardless of whether the rider is at fault.

This rule change is just utterly stupid and completely wrong.
 
Yesterday I met an elderly man who got chatting about horses

'Horses take me to a better place, when I go to them I feel like I am in a another place, I feel a different person........' con td on and on

I was stunned there was no boasty I have trained horses up to x level, competed at x level, better than thou, or my 3rd cousin twice removed had a horse, no on upmanship, well he was just in awe of what horses brought into his life

He looks after 2 ponies, so refreshing, an encounter I will not forget, love of horses humility
 
ester said:
https://fb.watch/Dg7vhs2l5Y

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How many more videos do the fei need before they act

The veterinaire is making constant reference to the extreme pressure on the horses mouths combined with extreme coercive training, training by force over a long period
 
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Does anyone listen to the TalkHorse podcast with Pippa Funnell?

I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.

I was pretty go smacked, firstly as it sounded like whitewashing over actual incidents of poor horsemanship and blaming stewards
Secondly, I've been at a lot of dressage shows, seen a lot of ugly and forceful riding and I can count on 2 fingers the incidents where anyone official has ever said anything - and even then it was just a quiet word.
 
millitiger said:
Does anyone listen to the TalkHorse podcast with Pippa Funnell?

I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.

I was pretty go smacked, firstly as it sounded like whitewashing over actual incidents of poor horsemanship and blaming stewards
Secondly, I've been at a lot of dressage shows, seen a lot of ugly and forceful riding and I can count on 2 fingers the incidents where anyone official has ever said anything - and even then it was just a quiet word.
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I really hate that this is just a normalized attitude. Cramming up a horse's neck is not acceptable and no amount of excuses for why should be tolerated. Dressage needs to take a long, hard look at itself and turn this thinking around.
 
Sadly, I've been less than impressed with a couple of interviews with BM now. Something just doesn't quite sit right for me with what is not said, and what is let slip sometimes. I appreciate that many are looking for a new 'golden girl' of dressage in the UK, but surely that is a label which should be earned properly over time and with proof; surely people would have learned to be more discerning since the CDJ headlines?

The first was when she openly said she is quite happy to use draw reins on a horse just starting out with changes so they learn how to contain themselves/whatever the exact phrase was. After first stating she expected to get slated for saying so! If you think it's not a great thing to do 1. Don't do it, 2. Don't endorse doing it. No hint of appreciating that the green horse is trying to strengthen up and become proficient in a movement and needs time and support so they are not becoming physically compromised while doing so; the inference was definitely just to get to a more highly scoring aesthetic as quickly as possible.
 
millitiger said:
I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.
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For chist’s sake. If young horses are that “dangerous” or “overzealous”, they shouldn’t be competing at national/international level, they should be given more time to mature and learn at lower levels, before stepping up as and when they can cope. NOT have their heads forced into their chests to prevent them from “acting up” (being a normal overwhelmed youngster).

That simple.
 
HaplessHorse said:
For chist’s sake. If young horses are that “dangerous” or “overzealous”, they shouldn’t be competing at national/international level, they should be given more time to mature and learn at lower levels, before stepping up as and when they can cope. NOT have their heads forced into their chests to prevent them from “acting up” (being a normal overwhelmed youngster).

That simple.
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My thoughts exactly

But we are not 'elite enough to understand'

The whole point of dressage is to gain control of your horse
 
millitiger said:
Does anyone listen to the TalkHorse podcast with Pippa Funnell?

I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.

I was pretty go smacked, firstly as it sounded like whitewashing over actual incidents of poor horsemanship and blaming stewards
Secondly, I've been at a lot of dressage shows, seen a lot of ugly and forceful riding and I can count on 2 fingers the incidents where anyone official has ever said anything - and even then it was just a quiet word.
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That is an alarmingly unsympathetic take towards both the horses and the officials. Oh well, just goes to show none of these riders should be admired too uncritically.

ETA I find the idea that 'experienced' officials are somehow more okay with that kind of coercive abusive riding really disturbing. What does that say about them? That they want to be in the 'in' crowd? That they just become inured to seeing it? That they genuinely believe it's fine and we are bunny huggers? That they think horses aren't sufficiently sentient for it to matter? I can't think of a good way to spin that.
 
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Burnttoast said:
Presumably the revised rule will mean that people can ride roughly, cause a horse to bleed and still potentially take home serious prize money, from which they will pay the small fine if it becomes necessary. Or have I misinterpreted?
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That’s how I read it, the prize money in showjumping is vastly higher than in dressage so maybe that might have something to do with it. While I agree that there is a lot wrong with dressage it seems that show jumpers can put as much junk on their horses as they like , ride them in rollkur in the warm up yet no one bats an eye lid…. I am seeing sympathetic riding being rewarded in dressage at last and hope it will filter down so everyone mimics that instead of rough riding
 
It's all just type 1 / type 2 errors.

Would you rather:
1) Punish a rider for a horse bleeding, even if it's bleeding through no fault of the rider
2) Let a bleeding horse continue competing, even though the rider might have caused the bleeding

1) Pull up a rider who is working a horse into too round and deep a frame, even if they're doing it for 'good' reasons (e.g., safety)
2) Let riders continue riding a horse in too round and deep a frame, even though that might mean you're letting people doing it for cruel/prize-chasing reasons get away with it

Because the correct answers are (1) and (1).

I just don't understand how there are equestrians in this world comfortable with the latter errors.
 
stangs said:
It's all just type 1 / type 2 errors.

Would you rather:
1) Punish a rider for a horse bleeding, even if it's bleeding through no fault of the rider
2) Let a bleeding horse continue competing, even though the rider might have caused the bleeding

1) Pull up a rider who is working a horse into too round and deep a frame, even if they're doing it for 'good' reasons (e.g., safety)
2) Let riders continue riding a horse in too round and deep a frame, even though that might mean you're letting people doing it for cruel/prize-chasing reasons get away with it

Because the correct answers are (1) and (1).

I just don't understand how there are equestrians in this world comfortable with the latter errors.
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We called them pothunters when I was young and it was frowned on then, but I think it's been normalised at the highest levels.
 
millitiger said:
Does anyone listen to the TalkHorse podcast with Pippa Funnell?

I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.

I was pretty go smacked, firstly as it sounded like whitewashing over actual incidents of poor horsemanship and blaming stewards
Secondly, I've been at a lot of dressage shows, seen a lot of ugly and forceful riding and I can count on 2 fingers the incidents where anyone official has ever said anything - and even then it was just a quiet word.
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After CDJ who acted like she was a paragon of virtue I dont trust any of them

If these young horses are that dangerous how about stopping breeding horses that look like their legs are dislocating. About time owners are held accountable if they want these young horses rushed

You then get all the disgusting gumph on the heads of showjumpers, so much so they've delayed tack rules haven't they? Again if these horses are this difficult to control why are they being bred?

No doubt a certain vet would just say us mere mortals dont understand how these are powerful competition horses 🙄
 
millitiger said:
Does anyone listen to the TalkHorse podcast with Pippa Funnell?

I was enjoying the latest one with Becky Moody until quite near the end
Paraphrasing, she said FEI officials abroad are more experienced and therefore more forgiving of what they see in the warm up.
She said officials in the UK are less experienced and pull people up who are only putting young /hot horses deeper and rounder for safety sake and she basically called them overzealous.

I was pretty go smacked, firstly as it sounded like whitewashing over actual incidents of poor horsemanship and blaming stewards
Secondly, I've been at a lot of dressage shows, seen a lot of ugly and forceful riding and I can count on 2 fingers the incidents where anyone official has ever said anything - and even then it was just a quiet word.
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I was also really disappointed with this. It’s put me right off her, and Pippa tbh for not challenging it.
 
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