CDJ withdrawn from paris

Burnttoast said:
Is it? That's interesting. I was thinking that given the FEI's propensity to argue the toss over every little thing (eg we must do research to find out if blue tongues = pain, otherwise we carry on as usual) that they would consider it infringing on the rider's freedoms to actually examine the horses 😒
Click to expand...
Possibly, but how far on is it from tack checks? It wasn't that long ago that checking if your horse's noseband was cutting off its circulation was considered an unwelcome interference.

I know it is highly unlikely to happen. About as likely as the Olympic selection committee picking me for a team. Unless there's a chocolate-eating sport?
 
Beausmate said:
And that's the problem. Once you see blue tongues and blood, then that horse has quite likely been suffering for a while. The idea would be to stop it before it gets that far. Maybe percentages to be lowered by X amount for injuries sustained by harsh riding?

The FEI are just pointless when it comes to horse welfare. They're all about the owners and riders and money money money. Plenty of happy two-legged athletes there.

The hot spots on showjumpers are likely to reveal the use of irritants like capsaicin.
Click to expand...
Yes absolutely. Spurs are not knives. How long do you have to bludgeon away to weaken the skin so much it will bleed?
 
T
Beausmate said:
Possibly, but how far on is it from tack checks? It wasn't that long ago that checking if your horse's noseband was cutting off its circulation was considered an unwelcome interference.

I know it is highly unlikely to happen. About as likely as the Olympic selection committee picking me for a team. Unless there's a chocolate-eating sport?
Click to expand...
Tack checks have ostensibly improved, that's true, but I'm not sure most of the riders are happy about that and you will still read about grooms etc positioning themselves to block the view of inadequate checks. Riders are mostly a long way from wanting genuine accountability I feel.
 
Burnttoast said:
T

Tack checks have ostensibly improved, that's true, but I'm not sure most of the riders are happy about that and you will still read about grooms etc positioning themselves to block the view of inadequate checks. Riders are mostly a long way from wanting genuine accountability I feel.
Click to expand...
If they wanted to do better, they already would be.
 
I'm basically just reposting everything from CplC here..
Whacking your horse in the mouth is still as uncool as it ever was.
www.facebook.com

9.6K views · 170 reactions | Nous vous montrons encore une fois cette vidéo d'Edward Gal dans le paddock de détente du CHIO de Rotterdam en 2024. Observez attentivement ses mouvements de bras, incroyablement rapides et brutaux. Il s'agit d'une « no

Nous vous montrons encore une fois cette vidéo d'Edward Gal dans le paddock de détente du CHIO de Rotterdam en 2024. Observez attentivement ses mouvements de bras, incroyablement rapides et brutaux....
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
Beausmate said:
Righto. How difficult would it be for all horses (or maybe even just the high scorers?) to have their mouths examined for recent bruising and sore spots and maybe a thermal scan over the rib area to look for inflamed areas from spur use and disqualify those with sore areas.

If your racehorse finishes with whip marks, the jockey is in trouble. So if you mark your dressage (other sports are also available) horse with your tools, you should receive some kind of penalty.

Takes away the subjectivity of judging and provides an incentive to be a bit more, shall we say subtle in the riding?
Click to expand...


How super embarassing would that be

Certainly put those blindly supporting the theory that us peasants do not know what we are talking about in a funny place

And the internet supporters of abusers, especially when mirrored by video back up
 
rhino said:

Has been done in other countries 🙂
Click to expand...
Useful paper thank you - I was just thinking of the FEI's propensity to demand complete proof of pain/harm when it comes to things like blue tongues and whether they would just say 'well, warmth under the rider's leg is because the rider is warm', or some such nonsense, and demand an ethically undoable study to prove that lots of spurring causes inflammation.
 
Burnttoast said:
Useful paper thank you - I was just thinking of the FEI's propensity to demand complete proof of pain/harm when it comes to things like blue tongues and whether they would just say 'well, warmth under the rider's leg is because the rider is warm', or some such nonsense, and demand an ethically undoable study to prove that lots of spurring causes inflammation.
Click to expand...
It is one of the ongoing FEI research priorities. As you can see it should be in ‘Phase 3’ at the moment.

EW - Ongoing Research

inside.fei.org inside.fei.org
 
Burnttoast said:
Yes absolutely. Spurs are not knives. How long do you have to bludgeon away to weaken the skin so much it will bleed?
Click to expand...
Absolutely.When they started leaving competition horses unclipped around their girth area, I was suspicious of it being done for welfare. It seemed more likely so they could still be harsh with the spurs and the marks were hidden in the fur as not so obvious to the officials. Maybe just me being cynical.
 
I have ridden several Van Olst horses and they are an acquired taste. In simple terms they were the hottest temperamented horses I’ve ever come across. Sharp as sh*t. I was *coached* on them by a Van Olst stable rider. Memorably on the sharper one it was an hour of being yelled at the hold (pull for all I was worth) and kick it to get it under my seat.
I failed miserably to get the desired effect and spent most of the time fighting the poor animal.



Sometimes i just dont know where to begin, its just feeling of blank despair


Some horses are hot, many horses are not bred for tractability

How much of those horses problem is breeding, how much is rotten, rotten, rotten training, how much is knowing when someone gets on their back the anticipation of being TORTURED for an hour sets them off into almost not being able to think coherently and not process the aids, possibly they just go blank mentally

As for kicking it to get it under the seat, that really says it all, it encapsulates, if any proof was needed, these horses are exploited on the same level of inhumane sectors such as puppy farms,battery hens and all the other despicable cruelties tha humans have dreamt up to do to animals for their gain

For example to pull as hard as you can and kick it , is as far as you can get from how it should feel,

Sitting on a soft mattress that floats over the ground responds to thoughts not barely needing even a whisper of leg, that seems totally relaxed yet powerful, surges forwards in the pleasure of using its own forces to put itself on bit, carry its rider so they barely need to move, think or intervene, and both horse and rider spend the rest of of the day elated, having momentary thoughts , was that real?

That was how felt riding my 25 years old stallion on monday, he is a better horse now than as a 6 year old, his movement has over the years got better and better in fact it is nothing less than spectacular, riding him is a dream come true and living proof of slow training where the rider and horse move through training at the same speed and arrive at the destination together

Sorry ceifer please just ignore my use of your post!


And all this paperwork to proove this and that, when any fool can see whats going on, its not the evidence thats lacking, its the bxlls to do something about it thats the problem
 
myheartinahoofbeat said:
Absolutely.When they started leaving competition horses unclipped around their girth area, I was suspicious of it being done for welfare. It seemed more likely so they could still be harsh with the spurs and the marks were hidden in the fur as not so obvious to the officials. Maybe just me being cynical.
Click to expand...

If welfare was front and central they'd ride in a way (or learn to ride in a way) that doesn't have a risk of leaving marks.
 
tristars said:
For example to pull as hard as you can and kick it , is as far as you can get from how it should feel,

Sitting on a soft mattress that floats over the ground responds to thoughts not barely needing even a whisper of leg, that seems totally relaxed yet powerful, surges forwards in the pleasure of using its own forces to put itself on bit, carry its rider so they barely need to move, think or intervene, and both horse and rider spend the rest of of the day elated, having momentary thoughts , was that real?

That was how felt riding my 25 years old stallion on monday, he is a better horse now than as a 6 year old, his movement has over the years got better and better in fact it is nothing less than spectacular, riding him is a dream come true and living proof of slow training where the rider and horse move through training at the same speed and arrive at the destination together
Click to expand...

I think that many of those 'top' riders have been trained in the kick it, pull it method.

I wonder how many of them have ever sat on a horse that floats and responds to your thoughts?

I've only ever achieved that a few times ( because I'm not a top rider! ) but it is the ultimate in in riding experiences.
A true partnership.

And all this paperwork to proove this and that, when any fool can see whats going on, its not the evidence thats lacking, its the bxlls to do something about it thats the problem

This is the biggest problem.
 
Beausmate said:
Righto. How difficult would it be for all horses (or maybe even just the high scorers?) to have their mouths examined for recent bruising and sore spots and maybe a thermal scan over the rib area to look for inflamed areas from spur use and disqualify those with sore areas.

If your racehorse finishes with whip marks, the jockey is in trouble. So if you mark your dressage (other sports are also available) horse with your tools, you should receive some kind of penalty.

Takes away the subjectivity of judging and provides an incentive to be a bit more, shall we say subtle in the riding?
Click to expand...

They seem to have enough trouble checking the nosebands can’t imagine they would do much more. Seems odd that dressage horses must have nosebands checked but show jumpers can put as much hardware on as they can get, let alone excessively tight nosebands. Surely horse welfare should be equally policed over all disciplines but the FEI seem happy to allow SJ to do as it likes
 
splashgirl45 said:
They seem to have enough trouble checking the nosebands can’t imagine they would do much more. Seems odd that dressage horses must have nosebands checked but show jumpers can put as much hardware on as they can get, let alone excessively tight nosebands. Surely horse welfare should be equally policed over all disciplines but the FEI seem happy to allow SJ to do as it likes
Click to expand...

And not only allowing all the metal work but removing the automatic blood disqualification rule as well 🙄 people actually voted in favour of removing that, what does that tell you about who is most and least important in all this
 
splashgirl45 said:
It’s pretty unbelievable isn’t it especially considering how much has been thrown at dressage. The prize money for SJ is much much higher than any dressage , hmmmm could that be why?
Click to expand...
I think there is also a lack of hypocrisy. Nobody says a SJ round should be harmonious or relaxed, just fast and no faults. Same with racing. Nobody says the horses have to be anything other than fast.
 
Racing gets a lot of both deserved and undeserved bad press.

It's certainly got a lot more power in regard to whip use (and no spurs) than any other horse sport. A jockey who exceeds the permitted number of hits (6 in the whole race in flat racing and 7 in jumps racing) can face severe sanctions, with sanctions increasing in severity if the offence recurs inside a defined period. I think eventing is the only one of the 3 main sports that has a similar but less used sanction system in place for bad riding and the ability to stop a XC round if a horse appears exhausted.

Also in regard to whip use the horse must be seen to have been given a period of time to respond to a smack before it is permitted to administer another hit. I'd like to see a similar limit to the severe use of spurs in a dressage test but that is never going to happen.

It isn't the spurs themselves or bits/double bridles that are the problem per se - it is the hands and legs that use them....

I also think that there are random and unannounced inspections of licensed racing trainers stables but I may be wrong in that(?) Can you imagine if there were unannounced inspections of FEI competing riders stables in any other horse discipline, especially if it was when the riders were 'training' their horses....
 
reynold said:
Racing gets a lot of both deserved and undeserved bad press.

It's certainly got a lot more power in regard to whip use (and no spurs) than any other horse sport. A jockey who exceeds the permitted number of hits (6 in the whole race in flat racing and 7 in jumps racing) can face severe sanctions, with sanctions increasing in severity if the offence recurs inside a defined period. I think eventing is the only one of the 3 main sports that has a similar but less used sanction system in place for bad riding and the ability to stop a XC round if a horse appears exhausted.

Also in regard to whip use the horse must be seen to have been given a period of time to respond to a smack before it is permitted to administer another hit. I'd like to see a similar limit to the severe use of spurs in a dressage test but that is never going to happen.

It isn't the spurs themselves or bits/double bridles that are the problem per se - it is the hands and legs that use them....

I also think that there are random and unannounced inspections of licensed racing trainers stables but I may be wrong in that(?) Can you imagine if there were unannounced inspections of FEI competing riders stables in any other horse discipline, especially if it was when the riders were 'training' their horses....
Click to expand...
A little while ago I saw a photo and a report of a race in HH.The horse was surrounded by shouting spectators,was blindfolded and being pulled towards the gate by 2 or 3 people and pushed by 2 or 3 more. It was being urged on by the jockey.Marcus Armytage (spelling?) Their correspondent said the horse was not scared it was stubborn.Not one eyebrow was raised as far as I can see.Can you image a similar scenario at a dressage competition?
 
eahotson said:
A little while ago I saw a photo and a report of a race in HH.The horse was surrounded by shouting spectators,was blindfolded and being pulled towards the gate by 2 or 3 people and pushed by 2 or 3 more. It was being urged on by the jockey.Marcus Armytage (spelling?) Their correspondent said the horse was not scared it was stubborn.Not one eyebrow was raised as far as I can see.Can you image a similar scenario at a dressage competition?
Click to expand...
What would you do instead if you could be charge ?
 
If you're checking mouths then polo...

I exercised polo horses and the state of some coming back from a weekend competing made me cry. One who had stopped playing well was vetted prior to going off to a polo school - blind on the mallet side. The vet knew exactly what to look for too, wasn't the first that had been blinded by the mallet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top