FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
Sorry if this has been done before. What does everyone think of his techniques? I'm a fan btw
Cesar Milan - Love him or hate him?
- Thread starter FestiveBoomBoom
- Start date
BBH
Well-Known Member
I think he's great and spot on when he says the owners need training not the dogs just like Monty Roberts for horses.
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
I like him and his training techniques...IMO he has only improved and promoted responsible dog ownership.
A1fie
Well-Known Member
I'm a fan too. Anyone who seeks to educate people on correct ways to train and handle dogs is great in my book.
He makes it easy to understand how you should be with dogs. His message is clear: be consistent with training and handling, have clear and defined boundaries, provide lots and lots exercise and don't treat them like little fluffy people or else you will confuse them.
I love seeing him with his previously dysfunctional pack as they all look so happy and content.
He makes it easy to understand how you should be with dogs. His message is clear: be consistent with training and handling, have clear and defined boundaries, provide lots and lots exercise and don't treat them like little fluffy people or else you will confuse them.
I love seeing him with his previously dysfunctional pack as they all look so happy and content.
Zoobie
Well-Known Member
I'd have his babies if he was a bit taller but then I'd also have Carl Hester's oh sorry your talking about dog training techniques
Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
Not a clue who he is
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
LOL Zoobie
I'm glad you said that, I quite fancy him too!! Plus he's pretty nifty with the doggies, rather an attractive trait in my book!
Annette4
Well-Known Member
I really like him too.....common sense doggy ownership
KarynK
Well-Known Member
Big fan he's on the mark with really difficult dogs that would be PTS by some, once he sets the rules and boundaries the dogs are always much more contented. He doesn't beat dogs or use oppression he simply takes control through positivity. (BTW if you meet him he doesn't like people referring to him as a trainer, he doesn't train dogs he helps them and trains the owner,!)
Some slag him off and call his methods cruel, can't figure out why and sometimes I think they've been watching another channel. Monty deals with timid grazers Cesar deals with a top predator, they are not going to have the same methods are they!
I wonder how many trainers would turn some of the dogs he has had round including ex fighting pit bulls!!! My trainer is a huge fan but then the only dog she ever truned away was because the owner kicked it in a class!!!!
Oh and yes he is cute with a great sense of humour, on Graham Norton the other night someone mentioned Barbara Woodhouse, Cesar immediately shouted "Walkies" !!! About time he did some British episodes!!
Some slag him off and call his methods cruel, can't figure out why and sometimes I think they've been watching another channel. Monty deals with timid grazers Cesar deals with a top predator, they are not going to have the same methods are they!
I wonder how many trainers would turn some of the dogs he has had round including ex fighting pit bulls!!! My trainer is a huge fan but then the only dog she ever truned away was because the owner kicked it in a class!!!!
Oh and yes he is cute with a great sense of humour, on Graham Norton the other night someone mentioned Barbara Woodhouse, Cesar immediately shouted "Walkies" !!! About time he did some British episodes!!
flash1
Well-Known Member
Sorry to disagree, but he is being sued in america for his treatment of dogs and the american humane society are concerned by his methods.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
Charmaine18
Well-Known Member
I'm not really knowledgeable enough to comment on his training methods, but I find his voice and his general personality a little annoying.
Don't know why. I don't tend to watch his programme.
Blanche
Well-Known Member
Huge fan but am amazed he has so much patience with some of the stupid owners . Maybe he needs Cayla as his sidekick , to tell it like it is !!
Now that would be fun !!
cefyl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to disagree, but he is being sued in america for his treatment of dogs and the american humane society are concerned by his methods.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they TRIED to sue him. A hate campaign started by one of the AHS jealous minions. This was back in 2007.
Anyone who is so succesful will have their detractors. His work to charities, including personal donations is huge. He has had many awards from various Humane organisations because of his dedication to saving dogs from certain euthanasia because of behavioural issues. The good he has done far outweighs the negatives.
And the word "clueless" springs to mind in your comment about lip smacking and avoiding eye contact. Obviously you have never observed canine behaviour when two or more dogs interact. Just stare at your own dog for a few seconds and it will avoid eye contact.
The AHS (as opposed to the HSUS) are getting to be copycats of PETA and will slaughter thousands of dogs because of behavioural issues/medical issues/ etc rather than rehome.
Sorry to disagree, but he is being sued in america for his treatment of dogs and the american humane society are concerned by his methods.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they TRIED to sue him. A hate campaign started by one of the AHS jealous minions. This was back in 2007.
Anyone who is so succesful will have their detractors. His work to charities, including personal donations is huge. He has had many awards from various Humane organisations because of his dedication to saving dogs from certain euthanasia because of behavioural issues. The good he has done far outweighs the negatives.
And the word "clueless" springs to mind in your comment about lip smacking and avoiding eye contact. Obviously you have never observed canine behaviour when two or more dogs interact. Just stare at your own dog for a few seconds and it will avoid eye contact.
The AHS (as opposed to the HSUS) are getting to be copycats of PETA and will slaughter thousands of dogs because of behavioural issues/medical issues/ etc rather than rehome.
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
couldn't find anything on the American Humane Society website or any information on him being sued. Actually there was something from back in 2006 but that was involving one of the workers at his centre whilst he wasn't there. Also, I thought that lip licking was a sign of relaxation and submission? Both my dogs do it and they are certainly not stressed, fearful, anxious, aggressive etc
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Huge fan but am amazed he has so much patience with some of the stupid owners . Maybe he needs Cayla as his sidekick , to tell it like it is !!
Now that would be fun !!
[/ QUOTE ]
LMFAO
cheeky madam
Huge fan but am amazed he has so much patience with some of the stupid owners . Maybe he needs Cayla as his sidekick , to tell it like it is !!
[/ QUOTE ]
LMFAO
CAYLA
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to disagree, but he is being sued in america for his treatment of dogs and the american humane society are concerned by his methods.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they TRIED to sue him. A hate campaign started by one of the AHS jealous minions. This was back in 2007.
Anyone who is so succesful will have their detractors. His work to charities, including personal donations is huge. He has had many awards from various Humane organisations because of his dedication to saving dogs from certain euthanasia because of behavioural issues. The good he has done far outweighs the negatives.
And the word "clueless" springs to mind in your comment about lip smacking and avoiding eye contact. Obviously you have never observed canine behaviour when two or more dogs interact. Just stare at your own dog for a few seconds and it will avoid eye contact.
The AHS (as opposed to the HSUS) are getting to be copycats of PETA and will slaughter thousands of dogs because of behavioural issues/medical issues/ etc rather than rehome.
[/ QUOTE ]
COULD NOT AGREE MORE
Whats more this is the same humane society that destroys dogs for reacting to a rubber hand when showing reaction to it being waffed around near it's food (a very natural behaviour for a dog to display) so maybe they do need to educate themselves on k9 body language and instinct b4 they slander
They need to spend more time shutting dwon puppy mills rather than bringing publicity to themselves by slandering someone who dedicates his life the rehabilitating the kinds of dogs they have to rehome from dick ends of a daily basis.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to disagree, but he is being sued in america for his treatment of dogs and the american humane society are concerned by his methods.
Have a look at the article about him on their website.
I agree with some of his ideas and I am not a bunny hugger, but if you watch some of the body language of the dogs he handles you will see the signs of stress ie lip smacking avoiding eye contact etc.
[/ QUOTE ]
No they TRIED to sue him. A hate campaign started by one of the AHS jealous minions. This was back in 2007.
Anyone who is so succesful will have their detractors. His work to charities, including personal donations is huge. He has had many awards from various Humane organisations because of his dedication to saving dogs from certain euthanasia because of behavioural issues. The good he has done far outweighs the negatives.
And the word "clueless" springs to mind in your comment about lip smacking and avoiding eye contact. Obviously you have never observed canine behaviour when two or more dogs interact. Just stare at your own dog for a few seconds and it will avoid eye contact.
The AHS (as opposed to the HSUS) are getting to be copycats of PETA and will slaughter thousands of dogs because of behavioural issues/medical issues/ etc rather than rehome.
[/ QUOTE ]
COULD NOT AGREE MORE
Whats more this is the same humane society that destroys dogs for reacting to a rubber hand when showing reaction to it being waffed around near it's food (a very natural behaviour for a dog to display) so maybe they do need to educate themselves on k9 body language and instinct b4 they slander
They need to spend more time shutting dwon puppy mills rather than bringing publicity to themselves by slandering someone who dedicates his life the rehabilitating the kinds of dogs they have to rehome from dick ends of a daily basis.
flash1
Well-Known Member
Thanks for saying Im clueless.
Interesting really as I work with dogs and have done for years, have qualifications in dog training and behaviour and animal care. The dogs I work with are working dogs, not over indulged, over fed and under exercised pets.
lip smacking and avoiding eye contact are classic signs of stress. Some of what ceaser milan does with dogs causes a state know as learned helplessness. Look it up if you dont know what it means. This is what he calls calm submissive behaviour.
I also train my own dogs to a high standard. They are large guarding breeds and yes I am fully aware how dogs interact with each other and with people. I have qualifications to prove it, plus years of experience of working with dogs.
As I said in my first post I agree with some of what ceasar milan says ie that dogs need exercise and rules. what they dont need is to be bullied.
Just because some one disagrees with you does not mean they know nothing.
Thanks
Interesting really as I work with dogs and have done for years, have qualifications in dog training and behaviour and animal care. The dogs I work with are working dogs, not over indulged, over fed and under exercised pets.
lip smacking and avoiding eye contact are classic signs of stress. Some of what ceaser milan does with dogs causes a state know as learned helplessness. Look it up if you dont know what it means. This is what he calls calm submissive behaviour.
I also train my own dogs to a high standard. They are large guarding breeds and yes I am fully aware how dogs interact with each other and with people. I have qualifications to prove it, plus years of experience of working with dogs.
As I said in my first post I agree with some of what ceasar milan says ie that dogs need exercise and rules. what they dont need is to be bullied.
Just because some one disagrees with you does not mean they know nothing.
Thanks
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
I have 2 working dogs, so they are fortunate in that they have a 'job' to do and therefore get plenty of stimulation in the form of exercise, socialisation woth other dogs, interaction with people etc etc. As I stated earlier, my impression of lip licking is that is was a sign of relaxation. Mine both do it, primarily when they are rolling around on their backs, at night begging for affection. Therefore I am confused that you say this is a sign of stress! Also, I would feel much more uncomfortable if a dog was staring me out, that to me would indicate aggression and dominance, not making then dropping eye contact, that just seems like the natural thing to do!
Also, I just cannot see how his methods constitute bullying. I've always thought him to be a very empathic man who can read canine behaviour amazingly well and implement changes all for the benefit of the dog. What do you mean exactly when you say he bullies dogs?
Also, I just cannot see how his methods constitute bullying. I've always thought him to be a very empathic man who can read canine behaviour amazingly well and implement changes all for the benefit of the dog. What do you mean exactly when you say he bullies dogs?
flash1
Well-Known Member
Try looking up signs of stress in dogs on the internet. you may find some interesting information.
I dislike his methods. One that springs to mind is a chow cross hung by a slip lead and pinned to the ground, another a gsd who was chasing a cat in the home, a electric shock collar was used on that one. Another dog was left unconcious after he used a check chain on it.
I know some people think hes great. I dont. I agree to disagree with his fans but I do object to being called clueless.
Google signs of stress in dogs or dogs body language. you may be surprised.
I dislike his methods. One that springs to mind is a chow cross hung by a slip lead and pinned to the ground, another a gsd who was chasing a cat in the home, a electric shock collar was used on that one. Another dog was left unconcious after he used a check chain on it.
I know some people think hes great. I dont. I agree to disagree with his fans but I do object to being called clueless.
Google signs of stress in dogs or dogs body language. you may be surprised.
FestiveBoomBoom
Well-Known Member
Ok I think we must be talking about different things here! Lip smacking or excessive licking whilst already in an agitated state, sure I can see that would be a sign of nervousness and stress. What I am talking about is when a dog is in a completely relaxed state as mine is now. He is lying next to me, head in my lap inhales and exhales deeply, then goes Mnnmm Mnnmm Mnnmm - LOL know what I mean? Re those episodes, I have never seen them but will see if I can get them on youtube
KarynK
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
. what they dont need is to be bullied.
[/ QUOTE ]
They is a very general term isnt it, not that he bullies anyway but he adjusts his techniques for different cases and is clearly not working from a textbook but from careful observations of the behaviour of THOUSANDS of dogs that he has handled over the years.
Im sorry but I would rather observe than quote from Dr Spock for dogs and in a pack of dogs from most breeds with intelligence you will see the bullying you are describing, it is a natural part of a dogs life. They are born and raised with different objectives in life, to get to the top or to stay at the bottom or land somewhere comfortable in between. The only ones in a pack that are not bullied at the Alphas for as long as they stay Alpha, but were stressed getting to that point and they are stressed trying their best to remain Alpha. 10 minutes watching my sister pack of Huskies and you will see it.
Breaking news dogs consider humans as part of their pack and dominat dogs will try and dominate!!!
Monty chases horses round a pen and sends them away as a punishment is that cruel???. Do that to your dog and it means nada, they are a predator, what a predator respects is strength, to gain that respect you must show strength, there is no way that Cesar can take on something like that Malamute/Wolf hybrid (WHAT PRI*K BRED THAT!!!!!) he had physically, the only way he can do that is through bluff i.e. body language if that is cruel then Im a monkeys uncle. Ive never seen him choke a dog, I have seen him use training aids like electric collars, but to break obsessive and or dangerous behaviour.
Oh and have you ever watched Super Nanny, particularly when she visits the USA, are those kids happy when she starts to set rules and boundaries???
I know I can burn my bra but what do I do with my choke chains???
Congrats on your training your working dogs so well, but forgive me there are dogs out there that have not had the start in life that yours are so fortunate to experience and you never see Cesar having to work with a dog without pre existing problems do you??? No they are all ones that people have given up on or are about to shoot! In his hands these aids are used only when necessary on cases where all else is lost, the dog is dangerous to itself or people and he is the last resort before the bullet, he uses them for the shortest of periods until the dog is back under control.
I am very interested to know how many re-homes you personally have taken on and reformed? What breeds they were and how they are doing now, equally the people that have contributed to your qualifications, how many dangerous dogs have they rehabilitated, how are their dogs doing now?
How would you using your techniques handle and fully reform a dominantly aggressive dog, say an adult Akita that has been mistreated with an unknown background and who has already bitten the owner??
Qualifications are admirable but having obtained them one should look to taking them forward through observations and wider experience, personally if I need help I would look to experience rather than penmanship I would consult Cayla!!
PS google Monty and see how much Dren you can drag up compared to him Cesar is boring!!!
. what they dont need is to be bullied.
[/ QUOTE ]
They is a very general term isnt it, not that he bullies anyway but he adjusts his techniques for different cases and is clearly not working from a textbook but from careful observations of the behaviour of THOUSANDS of dogs that he has handled over the years.
Im sorry but I would rather observe than quote from Dr Spock for dogs and in a pack of dogs from most breeds with intelligence you will see the bullying you are describing, it is a natural part of a dogs life. They are born and raised with different objectives in life, to get to the top or to stay at the bottom or land somewhere comfortable in between. The only ones in a pack that are not bullied at the Alphas for as long as they stay Alpha, but were stressed getting to that point and they are stressed trying their best to remain Alpha. 10 minutes watching my sister pack of Huskies and you will see it.
Breaking news dogs consider humans as part of their pack and dominat dogs will try and dominate!!!
Monty chases horses round a pen and sends them away as a punishment is that cruel???. Do that to your dog and it means nada, they are a predator, what a predator respects is strength, to gain that respect you must show strength, there is no way that Cesar can take on something like that Malamute/Wolf hybrid (WHAT PRI*K BRED THAT!!!!!) he had physically, the only way he can do that is through bluff i.e. body language if that is cruel then Im a monkeys uncle. Ive never seen him choke a dog, I have seen him use training aids like electric collars, but to break obsessive and or dangerous behaviour.
Oh and have you ever watched Super Nanny, particularly when she visits the USA, are those kids happy when she starts to set rules and boundaries???
I know I can burn my bra but what do I do with my choke chains???
Congrats on your training your working dogs so well, but forgive me there are dogs out there that have not had the start in life that yours are so fortunate to experience and you never see Cesar having to work with a dog without pre existing problems do you??? No they are all ones that people have given up on or are about to shoot! In his hands these aids are used only when necessary on cases where all else is lost, the dog is dangerous to itself or people and he is the last resort before the bullet, he uses them for the shortest of periods until the dog is back under control.
I am very interested to know how many re-homes you personally have taken on and reformed? What breeds they were and how they are doing now, equally the people that have contributed to your qualifications, how many dangerous dogs have they rehabilitated, how are their dogs doing now?
How would you using your techniques handle and fully reform a dominantly aggressive dog, say an adult Akita that has been mistreated with an unknown background and who has already bitten the owner??
Qualifications are admirable but having obtained them one should look to taking them forward through observations and wider experience, personally if I need help I would look to experience rather than penmanship I would consult Cayla!!
PS google Monty and see how much Dren you can drag up compared to him Cesar is boring!!!
FinnishLapphund
There's no cow on the ice
I don't love him but I certainly don't hate him either. I simply think he is overrated as in that I don't think he is more revolutionary than some other dog trainers, he just parcel up his methods well. I like some things he do but not everything.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
^^^^ Great post.
At risk of repeating myself, one size does not fit all. In dogs, in horses, in life. Different approaches are different, they are not wrong.
At risk of repeating myself, one size does not fit all. In dogs, in horses, in life. Different approaches are different, they are not wrong.
flash1
Well-Known Member
I dont intend to get in to long drawn out discussions over this, as I said I agree to disagree with his fans, but I will reply to a few points.
The dominance theroy is now being argued against by many top behaviourists. They say that as we are are not dogs, dogs dont see us as such, so they dont see us as part of the pack. I am not saying this is true or not, maybe you would like to look up some information on it and see what you think.
I would also point out that altough I do have qualifications in training, behavoiur and animal care I also have many years experience in working with my own dogs and as I work daily with many breeds of dogs including guarding breeds and others I can say I have plenty of experience! 25 years plus!
I would also point out that I have owned rescue dogs who have been badly treated and had various problems to overcome including aggression. one of my dogs spent most of his life tied up with no socialisation until he was 2. When I took him on he was almost like a wild dog.
He is now a lovely calm and well trained dog. I didnt get him there by pinning him down, doing alpha rolls or giving him electric shocks.
positive, reward based methods work for me.
I dislike people making judgements on me and my experience when you have no idea about it. As I said just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they dont know anything. It just means that they have a differant view.
I am not the only person who dislikes Cesar milans method by a long way.
This thread asked for peoples thoughts on him. I gave mine. I didnt ask to be called clueless etc.
I am sure I have far more experience of dogs than many people on here and It does not mean I am right or wrong.I only gave my opinion.
It seems if you dont agree with people on here you are wrong.
Anyway thats my view and I wont be posting on he subject again.
ps sorry about my spelling keyboard playing up
pps I have worked mainly with gsds but have experience with akitas, rotties, dobermans, labs, collies, goldies,poodles, etc
my last two are gsds. Lost previous gsd to spleen cancer aged 10.
The dominance theroy is now being argued against by many top behaviourists. They say that as we are are not dogs, dogs dont see us as such, so they dont see us as part of the pack. I am not saying this is true or not, maybe you would like to look up some information on it and see what you think.
I would also point out that altough I do have qualifications in training, behavoiur and animal care I also have many years experience in working with my own dogs and as I work daily with many breeds of dogs including guarding breeds and others I can say I have plenty of experience! 25 years plus!
I would also point out that I have owned rescue dogs who have been badly treated and had various problems to overcome including aggression. one of my dogs spent most of his life tied up with no socialisation until he was 2. When I took him on he was almost like a wild dog.
He is now a lovely calm and well trained dog. I didnt get him there by pinning him down, doing alpha rolls or giving him electric shocks.
positive, reward based methods work for me.
I dislike people making judgements on me and my experience when you have no idea about it. As I said just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they dont know anything. It just means that they have a differant view.
I am not the only person who dislikes Cesar milans method by a long way.
This thread asked for peoples thoughts on him. I gave mine. I didnt ask to be called clueless etc.
I am sure I have far more experience of dogs than many people on here and It does not mean I am right or wrong.I only gave my opinion.
It seems if you dont agree with people on here you are wrong.
Anyway thats my view and I wont be posting on he subject again.
ps sorry about my spelling keyboard playing up
pps I have worked mainly with gsds but have experience with akitas, rotties, dobermans, labs, collies, goldies,poodles, etc
my last two are gsds. Lost previous gsd to spleen cancer aged 10.
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Don't stop posting!
Debate is good.
flash1
Well-Known Member
I agree debate is good, what I dont agree with is people saying Im clueless because I said avoiding eye contact and lip smacking are signs of stress.
I also object to being told to go and get more experience when the person telling me to do so has no idea how much experience I already have!
I fully agree dogs need rules, I just dont agree with how Ceaser Milan handles dogs.
I am not alone in this view, however, its my opinion right or wrong.
Some people seem to think this man is some sort of God. Disagree at your own risk!
I also object to being told to go and get more experience when the person telling me to do so has no idea how much experience I already have!
I fully agree dogs need rules, I just dont agree with how Ceaser Milan handles dogs.
I am not alone in this view, however, its my opinion right or wrong.
Some people seem to think this man is some sort of God. Disagree at your own risk!
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
Well, that's what this place is here for, you've had your chance to repute that claim that you are clueless, you are clearly not, and have been asked and have taken the opportunity to put your views across etc.
I am delighted to hear you have worked with difficult dogs and got good results and well done for saving those that you have saved - apart from anything else we will have another experienced person on here to impart advice to those who need it.
Some of us have tried everything with our difficult dogs, some have got results from positive reinforcement, some, like me, have got results from correction.
Some of us are jumpy when people come on (not saying you did!) and say they are HORRIFIED at the use of choke chains, when personally I have used them - correctly - all my life, my dogs cope with them well (if they didn't, I would try something else) and are healthy, happy and un-traumatised
My two pennorth - I am going to see Cesar in March, hopefully, and will do so with an open mind.
I have never alpha-rolled a dog (well, I put him on the ground once, it was that or he was going to pull someone off a speeding scrambler bike and I didn't have much time to do anything else
) and I have never used an e-collar, although I know people who do, in very particular circumstances.
I am delighted to hear you have worked with difficult dogs and got good results and well done for saving those that you have saved - apart from anything else we will have another experienced person on here to impart advice to those who need it.
Some of us have tried everything with our difficult dogs, some have got results from positive reinforcement, some, like me, have got results from correction.
Some of us are jumpy when people come on (not saying you did!) and say they are HORRIFIED at the use of choke chains, when personally I have used them - correctly - all my life, my dogs cope with them well (if they didn't, I would try something else) and are healthy, happy and un-traumatised
My two pennorth - I am going to see Cesar in March, hopefully, and will do so with an open mind.
I have never alpha-rolled a dog (well, I put him on the ground once, it was that or he was going to pull someone off a speeding scrambler bike and I didn't have much time to do anything else
cefyl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
The dogs I work with are working dogs, not over indulged, over fed and under exercised pets.
quote]
You leave yourself open to people questioning your claims. A good, caring dog behaviourist / trainer / whatever whould not look down on "over indulged, over fed, and unerexercised pets" - your quote. They would educate and advise the owners on the correct way forward.
And by your own posting you "google" terminology. Most of the posters on here post from their heart and own knowledge, debate is healthy and it is good to get people with real experience discussing various methodology. There is more than one way to skin a cat after all. All people are doing is discussing all aspects.
And take time to "google" learned helplessness" in more depth. This term was initially derived for human phsycology, and though some applied it to animals (and a small aspect is common behaviour for both humand and animal) further scientific studies have shown that it is common amongst dogs period - in the wild / domestic / wherever. Learned helplessness is a NATURAL trait within the animal kingdom.
The dogs I work with are working dogs, not over indulged, over fed and under exercised pets.
quote]
You leave yourself open to people questioning your claims. A good, caring dog behaviourist / trainer / whatever whould not look down on "over indulged, over fed, and unerexercised pets" - your quote. They would educate and advise the owners on the correct way forward.
And by your own posting you "google" terminology. Most of the posters on here post from their heart and own knowledge, debate is healthy and it is good to get people with real experience discussing various methodology. There is more than one way to skin a cat after all. All people are doing is discussing all aspects.
And take time to "google" learned helplessness" in more depth. This term was initially derived for human phsycology, and though some applied it to animals (and a small aspect is common behaviour for both humand and animal) further scientific studies have shown that it is common amongst dogs period - in the wild / domestic / wherever. Learned helplessness is a NATURAL trait within the animal kingdom.
flash1
Well-Known Member
I did not say I google terminology. I advised someone to look up something for more info.
I did not say I look down on other dog owners. I simply said I have working dogs and not overindulged pets
I am fully aware of learned helplessness and dont need to look it up.
I have clearly said that every one is intitled to their own opinions.
You seem to have a personal problem with my views. Not only have you called me clueless, but also appear to be saying I am not telling the truth. You are a friendly lot here!
If every time someone posts something you dont agree with they get a pesonal attack i dont think I will bother! my experience is gained from real life both practical and in theory.
I dont get my ideas from tv programes
I did not say I look down on other dog owners. I simply said I have working dogs and not overindulged pets
I am fully aware of learned helplessness and dont need to look it up.
I have clearly said that every one is intitled to their own opinions.
You seem to have a personal problem with my views. Not only have you called me clueless, but also appear to be saying I am not telling the truth. You are a friendly lot here!
If every time someone posts something you dont agree with they get a pesonal attack i dont think I will bother! my experience is gained from real life both practical and in theory.
I dont get my ideas from tv programes
CorvusCorax
Deary me...
OK, can we all calm down and have a nice cup of tea? I'll pop the kettle on.
I hope posters here can look forward to hearing BOTH your advice and experiences and contributions in the future.
I hope posters here can look forward to hearing BOTH your advice and experiences and contributions in the future.