Channel 4 8.30 tonight

Boxers said:
If the RSPCA spent the money they used to prosecute him on wormers and gelding and maybe some volunteers to help out, it would be money well spent.
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Exactly what we said after watching it. What a shame that the RSPCA has become so politicised and seemingly unable to educate and aid rather than punish.
 
Just watched this and was very saddened by it. There were some aspects I didn't understand like why the man allowed the RSPCA to chase round the black colt for however long ending in it running round with a dart in its backside for 2 hours when he could have helped and saved the horse form suffering if he loves it so much?

Harsh as it may seem we have all seen the posts on this forum about poor breeding management and to me this case is no different the man was unrealistic about his horses and their welfare and I am glad some of the horses were taken away before further breeding happened. Owning any animal requires responsibility and if the owner is unable meet that requirement then sorry but the animals have to be put in the care of someone else.

It seems to me whilst he clearly loves his animals the fact he isn't totally ashamed at the RSPCA involvement shows something is missing. Whilst his personal issues go some way to justify the problem they don't provide a solution for it and therefore some form of action needed to be taken.
 
hairycob said:
Can't help feeling she is doing far more of practical good than the RSPCA but unless the guy gets some help with his mental health she has an uphill battle.
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Whether anyone thinks he has mental health problems or not, I very much doubt he'd accept medical help or treatment of any kind. He's dealt with his loss in his own way for a long time now.

Things have clearly got a bit much for him but I would think with some effort put in to sort his house to just a basic hygienic standard, and some practical help with the horses, he'd do okay and so would they.

As for "Who is this Michelle woman?", I'd say she's just someone who's trying to do some good.
 
I think it's very sad (just watching it now). A situation that's got out of control. I don't see any emaciated animals. Ok a foal died - that could be due to numerous causes. 52 horses, it's not unusual 1 could die/be killed is it really. That's just reality. Just becaiuse it's not how the majority of us may choose to keep horses doesn't mean they are suffering. They don't look to be.

All of you slating him have maybe never dealt with anyone who has suffered or is suffering mentail illness. That's what he screams to me of to be honest and I think he needs help. Michelle is the only one who's actually stepped in to assist him. I think if she wasn't there he'd been in even more of a mess.

The RSPCA's gunho approach isn't exactly helpful! What are they prosecuting him for anyway??
 
ladyt25 said:
I think it's very sad (just watching it now). A situation that's got out of control. I don't see any emaciated animals. Ok a foal died - that could be due to numerous causes. 52 horses, it's not unusual 1 could die/be killed is it really. That's just reality. Just becaiuse it's not how the majority of us may choose to keep horses doesn't mean they are suffering. They don't look to be.

All of you slating him have maybe never dealt with anyone who has suffered or is suffering mentail illness. That's what he screams to me of to be honest and I think he needs help. Michelle is the only one who's actually stepped in to assist him. I think if she wasn't there he'd been in even more of a mess.

The RSPCA's gunho approach isn't exactly helpful! What are they prosecuting him for anyway??
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They prosecuted him because he caused 18 counts of suffering to horses unnecessarily.


For those people who talk about the fact that the RSPCA should have spent money on wormers etc rather than prosecuting him, come off it, he's a hoarde. They can worm, then what happens in another six months when he doesn't do it again, and again, and again?!! Do they just stand by and fund this man's neglected horses for the rest of his life whilst he continues to gather more and more colts and let them breed?! Bearing in mind of course, that since he was given a six month suspended sentence, he STILL keeps getting more horses, and 22 still remain running free. So that's his attitude for you...doesn't even change when he is dealt with by the law. Do you honestly think he will change by being given a few wormers?!!
 
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Possibly going to piss people off (which actually isnt my intention) but I think if I were a horse I would rather live there than cooped up in a stable 23 hours a day overloaded with matching rugs, being kicked and pulled round a sand arena then poked and prodded because I'm not going right for my owner.

BTW I'm no tree hugger and don't follow any NH tribe.
 
Tiffany said:
His daughter was killed in a road accident and that's when his life went off the rails. He's obviously a kind, caring man who's love of horses as let his heart rule his head.

Personally I don't think that makes him a knob
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Agree they should be there to help no hinder.

I feel sorry for the guy, his life fell apart when his daughter died, lots of people resort to being recluse , going on depressants etc.

He maybe guilty of cruelty due to kindness,(no worming) that is the trouble with hording its like a obsession to help people who hoard get so into helping they begin to lose sanity or reality.

I hope they get him to a safe number he can care for and still have enough for himself
 
Moomin1 said:
They prosecuted him because he caused 18 counts of suffering to horses unnecessarily.

Do those people who talk about the fact that the RSPCA should have spent money on wormers etc rather than prosecuting him, come off it, he's a hoarder, they can worm, then what happens in another six months when he doesn't do it again, and again, and again?!! Do they just stand by and fund this man's neglected horses for the rest of his life whilst he continues to gather more and more colts and let them breed?!
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This..

Although he may have fed them, what looked like plain old chaff and sugarbeet, where was the shoeing? worming? Vaccinations? Daily care?
He had colts running with mares, and foals, possibly inbreeding?

You can shower horses with as much love as you want, but it still doesnt mean they are happy or healthy!?
 
Does anyone watch the American Hoarders program? I saw one with some mad bint who, when they cleared her disaster of a house out, had loads of dead cats matted into the floor amidst the rubbish.

There really should be more that can be done, and sooner, to get animals away from people who aren't all there. Tough luck if they love them, if they can't look after themselves, let alone the animals, the animals should be removed.
 
It said 6 counts but they didn't say what 'suffering' he had caused. I have seen worse welfare cases and known of cases where horses have no food or water are ACTUALLY emaciated yet the RSPCA don't bother doing anything about it. All seems very unbalanced to me.

Maybe they've not shown us the full story here. I still think the man himself should be the priority, he needs the help. He wasn't objecting to them removing his horses so he had at least realised he had taken on too much.

How much did the court case cost I wonder?
 
guido16 said:
First point, don't judge me, you don't know me. At what point have I judged you? You called the guy a knob when, in my opinion, this isn't the case of someone who just can't be ar$ed but someone who is mentally ill. I was saying, and stand by what I said, that sometimes you have to take in the bigger picture.
Second point, who says that is the worst suffering I have ever seen? [I]I said IF then you are very lucky. I didn't see any horse that would of worried me going on body condition score. Too short a program to know all the in's and out's of what is or isn't done with worming/feet etc so I am going on what I saw. [/I]This is a forum. We agree to disagree. No problem disagreeing with you on this one Don't feckin patronise me. Sorry where in my post below did I do this?[/I] Bad move. What on earth is that supposed to mean?[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbenji
I would say the guy has issues due to the death of his daughter. People can't help mental illness you know.

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. Life isn't black and white.

If that is the worst suffering you have seen with horses you have been very lucky.

This is a case where RSPCA would do better to help educate rather than use threats and courts.
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VOM said:
Possibly going to piss people off (which actually isnt my intention) but I think if I were a horse I would rather live there than cooped up in a stable 23 hours a day overloaded with matching rugs, being kicked and pulled round a sand arena then poked and prodded because I'm not going right for my owner.

BTW I'm no tree hugger and don't follow any NH tribe.
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Full of worms, possible overgrown hooves, popping out a foal every year because there is no control over the breeding. and carrying god knows how many diseases.....

Yes, im sure you would much rather that....
 
Bigbenji said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbenji
I would say the guy has issues due to the death of his daughter. People can't help mental illness you know.

Sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture. Life isn't black and white.

If that is the worst suffering you have seen with horses you have been very lucky.

This is a case where RSPCA would do better to help educate rather than use threats and courts.
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I think you have hit the nail on the head - the whole picture has not been portrayed.
 
ladyt25 said:
It said 6 counts but they didn't say what 'suffering' he had caused. I have seen worse welfare cases and known of cases where horses have no food or water are ACTUALLY emaciated yet the RSPCA don't bother doing anything about it. All seems very unbalanced to me.

Maybe they've not shown us the full story here. I still think the man himself should be the priority, he needs the help. He wasn't objecting to them removing his horses so he had at least realised he had taken on too much.

How much did the court case cost I wonder?
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I don't think they've shown the full story either. It was a stupidly short, unfinished tv programme really.

They will probably get the herd down to about ten and then they'll all get laminitis on all that grass.
 
Michelle a girl who wears her heart on her sleeve and looking for solutions and organising - good on your girl!!!!

A sad old man who fundamentally has his heart in the right place!

RSPCA, again nothing you would do would ever amaze me. Watching the "experts" load that black pony into the trailer was disgusting!!! The way they darted that pony was disgusting!!! Oh RSPCA you are so quick to prosecute. Why don't you go and find some proper cases of cruelty carried out by proper mean ********, and start seeing the bigger picture!!! If nothing else, RSPCA you have highlighted again your total inefficiency of dealing with anything!
 
ladyt25 said:
It said 6 counts but they didn't say what 'suffering' he had caused. I have seen worse welfare cases and known of cases where horses have no food or water are ACTUALLY emaciated yet the RSPCA don't bother doing anything about it. All seems very unbalanced to me.

Maybe they've not shown us the full story here. I still think the man himself should be the priority, he needs the help. He wasn't objecting to them removing his horses so he had at least realised he had taken on too much.

How much did the court case cost I wonder?
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I agree. I suspect there's much more to this than this film shows. Film makers have an agenda and deliberately don't tell the whole story.
 
I'm shocked people are slagging that auld man off.

I'm ashamed of the RSPCA taking him to court for animal abuse, he clearly loves those horse.

Yes things have got out of control with regards to numbers, and perhaps he should of seeked help but how many old lonely people in the UK sit at home alone suffering in silence as not to bother anyone, be it because they have no heating or the likes of him who life has go down the pan, all clearly spanning from a very traumatic time in his life , burying his child..!

Those of you calling him a knob, perhaps if you have the misfortune to bury your child - we will just sit there going oh well they just a knob anyway.

The animal charity should be offering there support to this man not dragging him through the mud.

As for lady, well at least she has a heart big enough to care and at least attempt to help him, how many here would just turn a blind eye thinking well it's not my problem, or skuttle off the the animal welfare to report rather than help him.

To me he came across as a kind auld man who has lost a love one and replaced the hole in his heart with one of the kindest sensitive creatures on this earth.
 
Surely following that program there should be a way that he can be helped? Priority being to reduce numbers pref to mares only and prevent him taking any more on. Michelle was the only person helping him, she may not do it the BHS way but she was managing to advertise fairly difficult to move on animals and then move them. Can't imagine the market is great for unhandled, randomly bred colts?
 
How do any of you on here know that the RSPCA hadn't already given him endless amount of help prior to this?! No, you don't.

You should all surely know that the press are very good at editing stories.

Think outside the box before jumping on the hysteria bandwagon.
 
As I understood it, both he and Michelle had got several ponies into an old dairy and had loaded them from there without any hassle. These ponies were sold to pay for wormer.

Does anyone here believe the RSPCA would have allowed, let alone had the humility to ask, anyone else to help load the ponies? The RSPCA are, after all, the "experts" and what could the owner they are about to take to court possibly know?:rolleyes:

I thought Michelle was doing a great job. Clwyd seemed intelligent, genuinely caring, and with a sense of humour. He seemed to enjoy having the cameras there while he bathed in the wood!:)

As you get older (and I am older that Clwyd), there is enormous temptation to procrastinate. I can quite understand how the death of his daughter would have unbalanced him and taken away his purpose in life. He obviously loved his horses but had lost control. Michelle was doing a great job getting things together.

I wonder who paid for castrating the colts? Maybe the RSPCA did some good after all.

As for the death of the foal, who knows? Where you have livestock, you will have dead stock. It is a fact of farming. As the old shepherds say, "Some are meant to die". Without an autopsy, no one can be blamed.

As for the rescue of the Highland ponies at Dallas, I was there and cannot praise the WHW enough. In that case, the owner had realised that he could no longer manage and had asked for help. He was also a top breeder in his day, and there were some beautiful ponies there. Where are the breed societies when things go wrong like this?
 
Donkey said:
Michelle a girl who wears her heart on her sleeve and looking for solutions and organising - good on your girl!!!!

A sad old man who fundamentally has his heart in the right place!

RSPCA, again nothing you would do would ever amaze me. Watching the "experts" load that black pony into the trailer was disgusting!!! The way they darted that pony was disgusting!!! Oh RSPCA you are so quick to prosecute. Why don't you go and find some proper cases of cruelty carried out by proper mean ********, and start seeing the bigger picture!!! If nothing else, RSPCA you have highlighted again your total inefficiency of dealing with anything!
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***Applauds***
Auld Lang Syne said:
I'm shocked people are slagging that auld man off.

I'm ashamed of the RSPCA taking him to court for animal abuse, he clearly loves those horse.

Yes things have got out of control with regards to numbers, and perhaps he should of seeked help but how many old lonely people in the UK sit at home alone suffering in silence as not to bother anyone, be it because they have no heating or the likes of him who life has go down the pan, all clearly spanning from a very traumatic time in his life , burying his child..!

Those of you calling him a knob, perhaps if you have the misfortune to bury your child - we will just sit there going oh well they just a knob anyway.

The animal charity should be offering there support to this man not dragging him through the mud.

As for lady, well at least she has a heart big enough to care and at least attempt to help him, how many here would just turn a blind eye thinking well it's not my problem, or skuttle off the the animal welfare to report rather than help him.

To me he came across as a kind auld man who has lost a love one and replaced the hole in his heart with one of the kindest sensitive creatures on this earth.
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***Applauds again***
 
TBH he reminds me of my late uncle who spent many years, even into his old age living in a tent/barn/garage wherever he could find shelter because he couldn't cope with normal life. Not an easy man to help at all. He could make temporary progress & then something would happen & he would basically run away. It struck me that being with the horses was possibly this man's way of running away. Prosecution won't change him.
 
Moomin1 said:
How do any of you on here know that the RSPCA hadn't already given him endless amount of help prior to this?! No, you don't.

You should all surely know that the press are very good at editing stories.

Think outside the box before jumping on the hysteria bandwagon.
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I am apsolutly sure that RSPCA and others will have a long history of interaction with this man.
 
Moomin1 said:
How do any of you on here know that the RSPCA hadn't already given him endless amount of help prior to this?! No, you don't.

You should all surely know that the press are very good at editing stories.

Think outside the box before jumping on the hysteria bandwagon.
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You do have a point. The film makers have their bias and want to show a good story. They go for manipulating an emotional reaction.

I found the film quite confusing as so much wasn't explained. I would like to have heard an interview with someone from the RSPCA for a start.
 
Moomin1 said:
How do any of you on here know that the RSPCA hadn't already given him endless amount of help prior to this?! No, you don't.
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Well you clearly do, so why not tell us all about it?
People can only comment on what they see - and what a lot of us saw is a man who appears to have done not a lot wrong, a friend trying to help, and a so called "animal welfare charity" acting out of all proportion.
 
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