Charlotte Dujardin eliminated

I know I am going to get shot down for this - and I really do worship the bones of Carl and Charlotte for the way they keep their horses - but why is there a need for spurs? In battle you needed to get your horse to move fast as it was often a matter of life and death, especially if you were riding a powerful stallion, but in a dressage competition.......?? However soft and rounded the spurs there has obviously been enough friction to break the skin. Surely the skill of the sport is the use of hands, legs and heels to perform the movements and I can't see the need for spurs in any form of equestrianism these days. Rant over - I'm off to find my tin hat.
 
Trouper said:
I know I am going to get shot down for this - and I really do worship the bones of Carl and Charlotte for the way they keep their horses - but why is there a need for spurs? In battle you needed to get your horse to move fast as it was often a matter of life and death, especially if you were riding a powerful stallion, but in a dressage competition.......?? However soft and rounded the spurs there has obviously been enough friction to break the skin. Surely the skill of the sport is the use of hands, legs and heels to perform the movements and I can't see the need for spurs in any form of equestrianism these days. Rant over - I'm off to find my tin hat.
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If you are using spurs for forward motion then you ate using them wrong.
Spurs vs no spur is a matter of refinement, there are so many buttons trained into a small space that the small size of the spur gives a clearer signal to the horse.
Like when giving directions its the difference between saying “that way ish” and saying “take the 3rd road on the left”
 
They are wonderful riders, but i’m a bit surprised four top riders have drawn blood. Are the spurs sharp so they nick the horse? Or how does it happen? I’ve seen minor legs cuts from a horse catching itself / a stone - but can’t think i’ve ever seen a flank bleed.
 
Leam_Carrie said:
They are wonderful riders, but i’m a bit surprised four top riders have drawn blood. Are the spurs sharp so they nick the horse? Or how does it happen? I’ve seen minor legs cuts from a horse catching itself / a stone - but can’t think i’ve ever seen a flank bleed.
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Thin skinned horses can mark easily, even just from the seam or spur rest on a boot etc.

ETA the blood in the mouth can happen to anyone innocently if the horse bites its lip or tongue. It's the correct rule but can take people out of competition who really haven't done anything wrong.
 
milliepops said:
Thin skinned horses can mark easily, even just from the seam or spur rest on a boot etc.
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Completely agree, my v good friend has a 3/4 bred TB, he's v sensitive and she's marked him early last winter in a sj lesson, not from spurs but the small spur rest on her Ariat Bromonts!
Shes now got new boots and when she re clipped him in early Feb, left coat patches on his sides where he got nicked.
 
I've read something about chestnuts being particularly thin skinned. I've no idea if it's true though. My chestnut is a massive baby so I can't judge by him.
 
milliepops said:
Thin skinned horses can mark easily, even just from the seam or spur rest on a boot etc.

ETA the blood in the mouth can happen to anyone innocently if the horse bites its lip or tongue. It's the correct rule but can take people out of competition who really haven't done anything wrong.
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My partbred welsh got rub marks off my new leather boots last winter after she had been clipped. She had a pretty big shiny patch where my leg would go and that lasted til the clip grew out. I was mortified! This was just hacking out and a day a week schooling. I can completely see how easily a thin skinned or freshly clipped horse could be marked by spurs from relatively little pressure.
 
In June I was riding in a SJ warm-up arena for an ODE when I noticed my horses mouth was bleeding. I don't think I caused it, my mare can get overly excited and cantankerous when jumps are involved and I usually jump in a grackle but this one day I jumped in a cavesson (I forgot my jumping bridle, I don't know what I was expecting to happen XC) so I think she opened her mouth and bit her own tongue.

I got off and withdrew from the rest of the day before the judges saw, and it had stopped bleeding by the time we got back to the trailer and untacked but I still felt like the worst human being in the world who didn't deserve to ride, I can't imagine the pain I would have felt if the whole world was shaming me on social media for it too.

I think this is a big learn for Charlotte and I doubt very much she will ever let this happen again. She posted a really lovely message on FB.
 
When Max was coming back into work we clipped him and hacked him out. He is TBx and thin skinned. He had marks on his flanks from boots. We have never worn spurs on him and he is super light off the leg so this was just from normal riding but I was totally mortified! I feel desperately sorry for CJD and the trial by social media is horrible.
 
Spurs are used for refinement of the aids. Like a double bridle - it isn't a "strong bit" it is about being precise. Very disappointing but rules are rules.
 
Leam_Carrie said:
They are wonderful riders, but i’m a bit surprised four top riders have drawn blood. Are the spurs sharp so they nick the horse? Or how does it happen? I’ve seen minor legs cuts from a horse catching itself / a stone - but can’t think i’ve ever seen a flank bleed.
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4 combinations were eliminated but not all for the blood rule.

Charlotte was blood on the flank.

Another rider was blood in the mouth caused by horse biting it’s own tongue through tension - one of those things.

The other two were eliminated for lameness.
 
I’m not sure why as usually I’d be the first to say “these things happen”. I’ve rubbed a horse with spurs before, not caused bleeding but taken away all the hair and pink skin left.

Something doesn’t sit right with me though about the type of spurs she was using, her post about it online etc. I don’t know.. I don’t think for one moment she isn’t spectacular as a rider and loves her horses but something about causing blood from the use of spurs makes me feel really uneasy and not something that should be brushed under carpet as “one of those things”
 
I have known it happen a few times to different riders, all of whom never had it happen before or again. FWIW it has never happened from a severe spurring, but just from a rub, if the leg is not very still.

One person had it happen from the seam of some Mountain Horse boots, no spurs there! He was devastated.

Most of these riders were so devastated that they did not want to ride again! They had not been cruel or rough.

All cases were at coat change time.
 
I don’t think it has been brushed under the carpet? She has been publicly eliminated from a major team competition. I haven’t seen any formal statement indicating anything other than the elimination was correct and warranted.

She put a pretty decent spur mark on the horse. She will be very embarrassed. Of course she didn’t intend to (very few do) but a mark of that extent is not acceptable, even if explainable.

I don’t feel strongly about it either way. It happened, the rules were applied, but I don’t have any ill feeling for her.

Anyone who has been around horses and can claim to never have inadvertently done something that caused minor discomfort / harm is either delusional or a liar.
 
Where has she been getting a slating for it? (Just read her statement on FB), everyone seems to have been quite supportive from what I’ve seen?
 
Trouper said:
I know I am going to get shot down for this - and I really do worship the bones of Carl and Charlotte for the way they keep their horses - but why is there a need for spurs? In battle you needed to get your horse to move fast as it was often a matter of life and death, especially if you were riding a powerful stallion, but in a dressage competition.......?? However soft and rounded the spurs there has obviously been enough friction to break the skin. Surely the skill of the sport is the use of hands, legs and heels to perform the movements and I can't see the need for spurs in any form of equestrianism these days. Rant over - I'm off to find my tin hat.
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i agree, it makes for an interesting debate, nice post very well put over
 
ihatework said:
I don’t think it has been brushed under the carpet? She has been publicly eliminated from a major team competition. I haven’t seen any formal statement indicating anything other than the elimination was correct and warranted.

She put a pretty decent spur mark on the horse. She will be very embarrassed. Of course she didn’t intend to (very few do) but a mark of that extent is not acceptable, even if explainable.

I don’t feel strongly about it either way. It happened, the rules were applied, but I don’t have any ill feeling for her.

Anyone who has been around horses and can claim to never have inadvertently done something that caused minor discomfort / harm is either delusional or a liar.
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good post
 
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