Cheltenham November meeting

[Tiddlypom]

They shouldn’t parade them after though, they should be straight back in to be looked after.

Thoroughly agree with that. No more stupid post race mic on a stick interviews either, with the jockey circling the presenter on a blowing knackered horse. Get off the horse and hand it over to be cooled off away from the baying crowds

Yes, the deaths even made the BBC national evening TV news. They showed a very tired looking Abuffalosoldier holding on for the win.

ETA And the three deaths were further mentioned on this morning’s BBC Radio 4 news program.

 

[Birker2020]

Our country ought to hang it's head in shame.

 

[minesadouble]

It's incredibly sad but 3 horses in such a short space of time is an anomaly.
I remember the year 3 were killed on Badminton Cross Country day.
Racing is getting safer but it will always carry risk, as will Cross Country, riding our horses on the roads and herd turnout.
It's an individual choice which risks we personally deem acceptable.

 

[meleeka]

For me it's just too much. Pushing an animal to its absolute limits doesn't sit well with me and if it were people dying, nobody would think it an acceptable risk.

 

[Orangehorse]

Walking back to the paddock is part of the cooling down process, nothing would be different if they went straight back to the stable. People like to see the horses and cheer them. Remember that all the horses are inspected by a vet before running, when they arrive at the racecourse.

It was sad, I turned the TV off and went for a walk and didn't watch to the end.

 

[Tiddlypom]

No horse needs to be walked past a loudly shouting alcohol fuelled crowd as part of the cool down process.

The race is done, let the crowd cheer the jockey, allow the horse peace and quiet.

I hate it when idiots well within kicking distance crowd and jostle the winner in the unsaddling enclosure.

 

[equinerebel]

It's incredibly sad but 3 horses in such a short space of time is an anomaly.
I remember the year 3 were killed on Badminton Cross Country day.

1992, right? And then two in 2007. Every other fatality has been singular, and infrequent (although, all too many). I'd consider those specific two years to be anomalies. I really don't think we can say that about the amount of horses racing haemorrhages. I was too young to know the 1992 cases, but I do remember with vivid horror the fatal accident of Icare d'Auzay in 2007.

It helps no one to pretend this isn't a problem in racing. Horses don't make the choice of which risk they are willing to take and which they aren't, because they simply do not know and cannot make informed consent. It's up to us to keep them as safe as we can.

 

[Parrotperson]

suspect he died of a heart attack (that's what its says in the racing post summary).

His heart would've been checked regularly including when he arrived at the racecourse that day but obviously he had an anomaly.

It seems to me that since they changed the colour of the paint on the fences (from orange to white) there have definitely been less fallers. So that was a good initiative.

 

[Orangehorse]

Far fewer fallers, on Saturday I think there was only 1 unseat.

NOTHING can predict a horse suddenly dying from a heart attack.

 

[Clodagh]

Walking back to the paddock is part of the cooling down process, nothing would be different if they went straight back to the stable. People like to see the horses and cheer them. Remember that all the horses are inspected by a vet before running, when they arrive at the racecourse.

It was sad, I turned the TV off and went for a walk and didn't watch to the end.

I accept my point wasn’t well put, I meant the jockey shouldn’t have a lengthy interview on board. I agree back to the paddock for unsaddling and washing off. Just not a 5 minute delay for the tv.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I presume that Abuffalosoldier was given the win? They’d have had to remove the saddle from his corpse for the jockey to weigh in?

 

[Clodagh]

I presume that Abuffalosoldier was given the win? They’d have had to remove the saddle from the corpse for the jockey to weigh in?

Well, he won, why would they not have done?
And yes I presume he was untacked.

 

[Gamebird]

As soon as there is any indication of an issue with a horse - whether that is a wobble or down after a fall or a collapse - the first thing that is done is the girths are undone and the saddle pulled off. Assuming it is humanly safe to do so. That is for medical reasons, not for the purpose of weighing in, although it serves for the latter as well.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I haven't seen and don’t won’t want to see the footage of Abuffalosoldier‘s collapse, but by all reports it was very sudden.

 

[Clodagh]

I haven't seen and don’t won’t want to see the footage of Abuffalosoldier‘s collapse, but by all reports it was very sudden.

He went down with his saddle on, he was dead before he hit the ground.

 

[Gamebird]

Regardless, it would have been done straight away. It's just one of those things you do (not currently one, but have been racecourse vet for >15yrs).

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

It was super sudden, I may not have been paying full attention but they'd just finished the interview and he just fell over onto his side, I don't think he even staggered or looked wobbly beforehand which I think made it all the more shocking and probably why the camera was still on him as no one was expecting it

I can see it being the end of having interviews straight after the race, I know it wasn't necessarily the cause and it may well have happened when the camera was on him as he came back up the horse walk

 

[Tiddlypom]

Regardless, it would have been done straight away. It's just one of those things you do (not currently one, but have been racecourse vet for >15yrs).

It was a genuine musing on my part.

The powers that be will have to have been satisfied that there was no funny business with the weights when the saddle was removed before the jockey was confirmed as having weighed in.

It’s right that Abuffalosoldier kept the race.

I do hope that it’s the end of the mic on a stick post race interviews.

 

[Parrotperson]

I presume that Abuffalosoldier was given the win? They’d have had to remove the saddle from his corpse for the jockey to weigh in?

Yes

That’s what they do. They’d have to remove it to give treatment for a heart attack in any case.

 

[Fred66]

I'm talking about the constant deaths on racecourses, not just heart attacks. 12 deaths so far this month, - we have another 17 days still to go. 14 deaths in October. Totally unacceptable in any other 'sport'.

I'm talking about Kelso and Uttoxeter both having two horses die on the same day during race meetings during last month. Warwick lost three horses in one day.

I'm talking about almost 3,000 horses losing their lives on British racecourses over a 17 year period.

I know horses have heart attacks, mine did the same sadly but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.

Something is inherently wrong somewhere.

If your 3000 is correct then that is circa 0.2% of all runners, which is a very tiny fraction.

 

[Darcey69]

I'm talking about the constant deaths on racecourses, not just heart attacks. 12 deaths so far this month, - we have another 17 days still to go. 14 deaths in October. Totally unacceptable in any other 'sport'.

I'm talking about Kelso and Uttoxeter both having two horses die on the same day during race meetings during last month. Warwick lost three horses in one day.

I'm talking about almost 3,000 horses losing their lives on British racecourses over a 17 year period.

I know horses have heart attacks, mine did the same sadly but that wasn't the point i was trying to make.

Something is inherently wrong somewhere.

Just out of interest, how many leisure horses have died "unpleasant" deaths in that time in the UK? Quite a few I expect, but nobody keeps any records of those. Shame there isn't a fatality database for all horses as we could learn plenty from that I think.

 

[Gamebird]

If your 3000 is correct then that is circa 0.2% of all runners, which is a very tiny fraction.

Pretty much spot on. Overall fatality rate is 0.18% of runners. That breaks down to 0.37% for jumps and 0.08% for flat.

 

[equinerebel]

NOTHING can predict a horse suddenly dying from a heart attack.

I don’t doubt that and lost one turned out to a heart attack. I actually love racing (tho I’m more of a flat viewer), but I know there’s still more we can do for these wonderfully stoic animals.

 

[Birker2020]

Just out of interest, how many leisure horses have died "unpleasant" deaths in that time in the UK? Quite a few I expect, but nobody keeps any records of those. Shame there isn't a fatality database for all horses as we could learn plenty from that I think.

They are not comparable in the slightest.

 

[MyBoyChe]

Im so conflicted on this. I absolutely love NH racing, have watched it for nigh on 50 years. The sport will never be able to avoid risk but it is a deal safer now than it was in the 70s, 80s etc. I think as a fan you have to understand and accept the risks, in the knowledge that the horses are well treated and well attended if anything goes wrong. Ive said it many times before to many different people but many "pet" horses are much worse treated and dont receive such immediate care if hurt in the fields or at home. Competition horses are rarely not under someones watch and niggles and catastrophic injuries dealt with quickly and humanely. Those who dont like racing will never be persuaded otherwise and that is there perogative, I hate greyhound racing, zoos, safari parks, dog agility, flyball and fishing, all for various reasons and I neither visit, watch nor take part in any of those things. Sundays events were really upsetting, I watched but had to take a break after Abuffalosoldier went down, noone wants to see that happen but it wont stop me enjoying racing. I do agree with those who suggest that the immediate post race interview should stop though, take the horse away then interview the jockey once hes weighed in. That wont stop horses having heart attacks but I do think they should be walked away without all those silly circles, cooling down can be done in private. Those who love and understand the horse wont mind and the drunken jeering hordes wont care

 

[Clodagh]

They are not comparable in the slightest.

Why not?

 

[Birker2020]

Why not?

Oh come on now....

 

[Clodagh]

Oh come on now....

So if a horse dies of a heart attack galloping on the beach it’s ok and if it’s a race horse it’s not?
Don’t bother answering, CBA.

 

[Birker2020]

If there was the same number of leisure horses dying as there are racehorses everyone would be up in arms and it'd get banned pretty quick I would imagine. But with the number of horses that die in racing its no where near comparable and it's a daft argument to put forward.

Our riding club has had two deaths that I know of since it was started in 1977! I don't know of any other show centre near us that has a similar rec

Not two in one day, one year or even one decade. Yes horses die on the roads but no where near the sheer number that die on racetracks, that's not to mention the horses that don't make the grade: we've seen what happens to them, sent to bin end auctions and eventually to slaughter..

All the years Hickstead has been going; two deaths.

 

[Fred66]

If there was the same number of leisure horses dying as there are racehorses everyone would be up in arms and it'd get banned pretty quick I would imagine. But with the number of horses that die in racing its no where near comparable and it's a daft argument to put forward.

Our riding club has had two deaths that I know of since it was started in 1977! I don't know of any other show centre near us that has a similar rec

Not two in one day, one year or even one decade. Yes horses die on the roads but no where near the sheer number that die on racetracks, that's not to mention the horses that don't make the grade: we've seen what happens to them, sent to bin end auctions and eventually to slaughter..

All the years Hickstead has been going; two deaths.

There is insufficient data on your average leisure riding horses to say. But I would say there are a higher number of welfare issues in non commercial horse world than commercial.

Whilst I hate the idea of horses going to slaughter then arguably it’s no different to that of cattle, sheep or pigs going the same way.