Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
It’s a view ,different from yours .many of us smile and ignore your ‘insulting ‘ views all the time .
Cheltenham Sir Eric...poor horse
- Thread starter ROMANY 1959
- Start date
It’s a view ,different from yours .many of us smile and ignore your ‘insulting ‘ views all the time .
Elf On A Shelf
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Aye 😂😂😂 go and watch Peppa Pig 😂😂😂 I love Ted Walsh! He is awesome!
cundlegreen
Well-Known Member
Speed kills. The softer the fences are, and the better the ground, the more injuries you are going to have.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Do horses love racing though?
Having read EKW's fantastic threads I'm convinced that they love their training runs. I have no doubt about that. But do they enjoy a race? I'm not so sure to be honest.
When I watch a race (and I'm thinking more of jump racing) what i see is horses that start off keen but eventually need more and more 'motivating' from the jockey. I see horses that finish a race looking absolutely exhausted, head down, veins bulging, blowing hard. I can't look at a horse in that state and believe its having fun. Horses are honest creatures and if trained to a job from a very young age will do it without question, so I'm not sure the old 'if a horse didn't enjoy it he wouldn't run' quite stands up.
I wouldn't want to see racing stopped but as an industry it cannot keep turning a blind eye to the welfare and well being of these willing, obedient horses. I think any sport that results in fatalities ought to be asking itself some tough questions.
Having read EKW's fantastic threads I'm convinced that they love their training runs. I have no doubt about that. But do they enjoy a race? I'm not so sure to be honest.
When I watch a race (and I'm thinking more of jump racing) what i see is horses that start off keen but eventually need more and more 'motivating' from the jockey. I see horses that finish a race looking absolutely exhausted, head down, veins bulging, blowing hard. I can't look at a horse in that state and believe its having fun. Horses are honest creatures and if trained to a job from a very young age will do it without question, so I'm not sure the old 'if a horse didn't enjoy it he wouldn't run' quite stands up.
I wouldn't want to see racing stopped but as an industry it cannot keep turning a blind eye to the welfare and well being of these willing, obedient horses. I think any sport that results in fatalities ought to be asking itself some tough questions.
Elf On A Shelf
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Carl Llewelyn also took 20+ horses out of contention at Canal Turn when his horse ran down the front of the fence causing many to refuse or lose their jockeys. The majority remounted - you could in those days - but by the time they had got back on the right horse, turned and represented the front ones that weren't involved in the melee were long gone. 4 horses finished. The first 2 home had a clear round, 3rd and 4th were remounts. The rest pulled up knowing they had no chance what so ever.
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree with this.
WandaMare
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. I think its a great sport and wouldn't want to see it stopped but it needs to keep improving and evolving in a way which attracts new interest, rather than shying away from change. Its not helpful to be defensive and respond to issues by closing the door and refusing to listen to people's negative reactions. All other industries have to continually adapt to new audiences to stay relevant and I don't see why horse sports should be any different. We live in a world where compassion towards animals has gained a lot of momentum so the racing industry needs to keep up with these changes, which I know they have done to some extent, but they still need to do a lot more to protect the future of the sport.
Saying its all ok as it is and if people don't like it they need to toughen up is not the way successful businesses survive anymore, imo anyway.
I don't count myself as particularly sensitive over losing animals in sport, but I couldn't go to the grand national or cheltenham because I don't want to see horses getting injured and dying, that's my choice. I also have many friends who feel the same. If the racing was made a lot safer, then I would really love to go and possibly get involved. I wouldn't go now though because I don't feel confident that enough is being done.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
According to Pete, 2012 renewal. The day my love of racing died.
Grand National: According to Pete owner will not return http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-17719966
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Some horses love to race others not so much other hate its just like show jumpers dressage horses and eventers .
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Meow!
I'll assume you had a bad night, since you've written about pain related insomnia before, and that when you said 'All this hysterical anti racing stuff is really for people who don’t want people to use animals at all ' , that you didn't mean that anyone who criticises racing is anti animals being used at all, and that I misread it.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Reading some of these threads you could be forgiven for thinking that the sport is doing nothing to make things safer whereas the reality is they are doing everything possible and more besides. A lot of people in racing think it’s already gone too far and what might kill off the sport is all the rules and regulations . Like I say watch ted Walsh for the racing viewpoint . Secondly, I’m not sure any horse is having “fun†being ridden, we ride horses for our sake not theirs and that goes for all horses.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Well that's not universally true, is it? There are many horses being ridden when the rider doesn't really want to ride because it keeps their waistline in trim and is nicer for them than putting on a muzzle, for example.
Regarding the fun part, the eventer in my avatar used to get into any open lorry, was seen twice to jump course of show jumps when turned out in a field, and used to scan the horizon for the white xc start box and tow me to it.
I'm pretty sure he thought cross country was a lot of fun and that lots of race horses like racing. I'm also pretty sure they like it a lot more than they would like being a dressage horse or a show jumper.
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Elf On A Shelf
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I do think the majority of horses like racing. Some, like Sky, absolutely relish the hustle and bustle and the sheer grit determination to fight for every inch to the line against their counterparts. Then you have others who enjoy going for a gallop and/or a jump but when push comes to shove at the end of a race they just go "Nah, not today I'll saunter home in my own time". And then others again who just plant themselves at the start and refuse to budge.
I know they arent humans and to project human feelings into them is daft but I do believe that they (well the majority) are like humans who train for competition. They have a will to win and push themselves to achieve that. If it hurts they aren't stupid they back off a bit. You can't force half a tonne of adrenaline fueled muscle to do something it doesnt want to do.
I know they arent humans and to project human feelings into them is daft but I do believe that they (well the majority) are like humans who train for competition. They have a will to win and push themselves to achieve that. If it hurts they aren't stupid they back off a bit. You can't force half a tonne of adrenaline fueled muscle to do something it doesnt want to do.
bonny
Well-Known Member
That’s kind of true for most horses though, I’m sure they would prefer to never be ridden but if they could have a choice I think they would prefer a life of galloping together rather than be a dressage horse or be endlessly schooled in circles.....some of the anti racing people should look at their own horses lives before being so judgemental. You can make a horse race but you certainly can’t make them do so successfully
cundlegreen
Well-Known Member
You have to remember that racing is the nearest thing to living in the wild, in that horses are prey, and have an ingrained flight reflex. They are far happier in a herd than on their own, hence the will to win, and keep running. I saw a horse unseat its rider in the Foxhunters at Aintree many years ago at the second fence, then lead the field over all the other fences with his ears pricked. He had every opportunity to run round the fences, but stayed straight and true, and as far as he was concerned, he won that race. I always thought the owner would have buyers lined up for him after that performance!
WandaMare
Well-Known Member
I used to believe that because the horses enjoyed it, which I think a lot of them do, that it made the risks justifiable but I'm not sure that argument really makes sense anymore. Its great if the horses enjoy their job, but if they have to make the courses less spectacular, have fewer horses in each race or whatever makes it safer, I'm sure the horses will still enjoy it the same.
Elf On A Shelf
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I know this article is a good few years old but it still holds more than it's value. It explains just why we can not fix some broken legs in horses.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/sep/23/claims-five-broken-leg-horse
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2011/sep/23/claims-five-broken-leg-horse
tristar
Well-Known Member
well i know for certain that our horses love to be ridden!!!! and enjoy very much working, they are working horses bred to work, BUT they never go to the end of their endurance and get exhausted, they come back relaxed and happy
bonny
Well-Known Member
This is all getting a bit far fetched .....you cannot know for certain your horses love to be ridden ! Do you talk to them and do they answer ?
Velcrobum
Well-Known Member
In one of the races at Cheltenham a horse dropped its rider and set off in pursuit of the rest of the field. It caught them and then proceeded to get in front of the leader, ears pricked and genuinely looking like it was having a very jolly time. Some horses want to race others do not - I have an ex-racer who really did not want to race despite having a lot of ability. He is an old fashioned NH type horse chunky and big boned so not a racing whippet type TB. I had a Welsh xTB some years ago who was horrible to ride in company as he HAD to be in front of any other horse/pony in the end it was so miserable he had to hack by himself and XC schooling could be very interesting if in a group.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
I have had horses who love to be ridden and worked, and others less so. Of course they can make their views clear, if we but listen.
tristar
Well-Known Member
one persons `s far fetched is another persons reality.
several times i have been loose schooling horses using my voice as the main aid and people locally must have seen them working and have said,`they seem to be working on their own`or that stallion does everything you tell it`` i just say`` that`s right, thats exactly what is happening``
so yes i do talk to them, all the time in fact, and yes they do answer
several times i have been loose schooling horses using my voice as the main aid and people locally must have seen them working and have said,`they seem to be working on their own`or that stallion does everything you tell it`` i just say`` that`s right, thats exactly what is happening``
so yes i do talk to them, all the time in fact, and yes they do answer
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Yes, and yes.
At an event at a very spread out venue, I decided to ask my horse if he wanted to go cross country. The start gate was several hundred metres away across two fields. I didn't actually know where it was. I got on at the lorry, dropped the reins, and waited to see what he would do. He popped up his head, scanned the whole area until he saw the white rails of the start box, set off in that direction and stopped when he got there. I took that as a very clear signal that he wanted to go cross country.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Jenny loves to work. She is the only pony I have ever known who jogs and quickens her paces going away from home out hacking but slows down and drags her feet when we start heading back!
Amber gives every impression of liking hacking and LOVING XC. She is pretty meh about schooling and show jumping.
Amber gives every impression of liking hacking and LOVING XC. She is pretty meh about schooling and show jumping.
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
I had another horse who would reach the gate home and refuse to go in and march past it up the road to continue the hack ðŸ˜
tristar
Well-Known Member
they live to please, and i live to ride, very lucky really
bonny
Well-Known Member
Let’s assume racehorses want to be ridden then and race as that pleases their humans and all the arguments to the contrary are just wrong !
tristar
Well-Known Member
ah but i don`t assume things
i sometimes wonder just exactly what some people actually do with horses, because you get the impression its not a lot , but then lets not assume too much?
i sometimes wonder just exactly what some people actually do with horses, because you get the impression its not a lot , but then lets not assume too much?
xDundryx
Well-Known Member
I thought between Frodon, Paisley Park and Tiger Roll national hunt racing had a lot of faith restored in it, I've always supported jump racing more than flat although have ended up with two ex flat horses ironically, after watching these horses coming in still full of running with their ears pricked there was an air of excitement and almost satisfaction from the racing community saying 'hey look fairytales come true even in racing'there was the feel.good factor. I tuned in for Gold Cup day and ended up feeling a little sick first seeing Sir Erec break down after all the attention had been on him, then when Invitation Only landed heavily and his legs instantly went stiff and didnt move I said to my OH, Oh God hes dead too. It's a tricky position to be in, the horses are doing 'their job' and the racing industry brings in a lot to the economy. I personally dont think Ted Walsh's comments have helped the situation, sometimes just thinking it is better than saying it!
windand rain
Well-Known Member
The simple truth is the kinder you make the ground and fences the faster the horses can run and as a result there are more accidents at higher speeds causing increasing risk of fatality. Not sure of the stats but I think there are more problems now with fatalities than there has ever been, fewer serious injury and as with the car speed restriction saying "speed kills" The type of horse has changed too as they are becoming more likely to have less bone and greater speed rather than staying power and strength which also contributes to their risk of injury or death