Cheltnam

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Mollymillymoo

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Is anyone watching the Cheltnam Festival at the moment? We have it on tv at work cos everyone's been betting on it and everytime I turn around there's a horse on the floor... :s I just looked and one fell and it's leg was twitching. It made me feel sick.

Is it just me or is this an incredibly barbaric sport? Does anyone else dislike watching it? Why do they keep falling?
 
I love it - but agree that the tougher aspect is the horses falling possibly dying as a result.

So many reasons why a horse may fall.....
 
Love the sport but it does have it's darker side too. The horse that just fell looks like it broke it's neck so at least would have been mercifully quick.
 
I agree it doesn't look all that nice, but I wouldn't call it barbaric. In flat horses they are bred with long thin and relatively weak cannons, but these national hunt horses have a fair amount of bone in them (I work on a national hunt yard).

I normally work at the Cheltenham stables on race days too, so gutted this year as I have uni work, but the ground is pretty hard there at the moment I think....and so many reasons why a horse will fall....but what about all the horses that fall out eventing?
 
I don't think Citizen Vic made it :( :(

Not a barbaric sport though, horses die in different situations every day!
 
There are undoubtedly more barbaric sports (arguably anything where animal, or in the case of martial arts, human pain is part of the aim). But the incidental cruelty in training and accidents in racing, and the many, many animals that don't make it through racing to permanent homes make this unacceptable to me. Not saying it should be banned but the sport needs to do more for both the immediate and longer term welfare of the animals it is based on. This is the main reason I don't gamble on horses, even say, in work sweepstakes where it would be social to do so, and avoid watching wherever possible.
 
Hmm I know maybe a bit of an over reaction but that was a horrible fall to watch. Poor thing. I know horses die all the time from different causes, it just seems like every race we watch something falls - even our manly old business men are flinching at it a bit!
 
Tickles said:
There are undoubtedly more barbaric sports (arguably anything where animal, or in the case of martial arts, human pain is part of the aim). But the incidental cruelty in training and accidents in racing, and the many, many animals that don't make it through racing to permanent homes make this unacceptable to me. Not saying it should be banned but the sport needs to do more for both the immediate and longer term welfare of the animals it is based on. This is the main reason I don't gamble on horses, even say, in work sweepstakes where it would be social to do so, and avoid watching wherever possible.
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Hmm watching it has made me think about all the ex racers you hear about as problem horses and that end up being passed around or shot because noone wants them anymore. The more I think about it the less I like it.
 
Its not a barbaric sport at all. Badger baiting is a barbaric sport, but not racing!

Racing is dangerous, but horses die everyday from other things.

Unfortunately, racing is on tv, which just highlights horses that die :(

Poor horse and to all those involved :(
 
I can't bear watching it, I do like horse racing but on the flat.

My hubby loves it (for betting only as he is not that horsey) so it is on in our house, I have to leave the room once the race is off. I was once at Newcastle races and saw a fall, the tarpaulin round then the shot, finished me off cant watch it now and had to leave the races and go home that day.

I own an ex-hurdler, she is so lovely and gentle it breaks my heart to think that she was put over hurdles and when she didnt do so well was left to rack and ruin. Thank god she is pampered to within an inch of her life now with me bless her!!

Just seen on the internet Citizen Vic has died after that fall, poor thing. Thats knocked me sick now.
 
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Its not just NH and hurdles that claim the lives of racehorses, horses die on the flat too. I know it is not nice to see and it breaks my heart that so many horses die in racing but horses and people die in all kinds of sport, it is just one of those things...
 
There are plenty of problem horses around that are not ex racehorses. The standard of training varies, but the most responsible trainers make an effort to back and break the horses correctly, so if they don't make the grade they can go onto something else.

Racing is tough, it is hard on the horses and humans. There are accidents which are horrid, and probably more horses killed racing than if they were playing in their own field.
But the highs are high and the lows are low. We get these posts every Cheltenham races and every Grand National. One year no horse was killed in the Grand National and there were no posts about the race at all.

Cheltenham is the highest quality racing in the whole year. No prisoners taken, some horses will be stretched and at their limit of galloping and jumping. I noticed that jockeys with no chance at the end were pulling up and not making a tired horse carry on.
 
it's very fast ground this year by the look of it, which will contribute to some falls.
These horses are treated like Kings and then, for some, they have a quick end if something awful happens while they are doing what they love... and you only have to watch one that has unseated its rider and carries on blithely galloping and jumping for fun, to see that part.
I can't help thinking that, tough and awful as it is, it's better than being deemed slow and therefore worthless, sent to a sale where they might make £600, and then to god-knows-what... 5 star hotel to backgarden shed with a muppet who knows nothing about horses, starves it, or whatever?
That is the real barbarity of racing (and greyhound racing too), that animals that people have made fortunes on, both racing and selling (some pinhookers make shockingly huge sums), have NO safety net to stop them tumbling down in the world. :( :( :(
sorry, will clamber down off my soapbox now...
 
I don't like watching racing having seen a horse breakdown and carry on running. From my In Memory Of Racehorses FB page, However I'm not against racing, if only they made more changes to make it safer...

CURRENT TOTAL OF DEATHS:
UK:24
USA:28

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JANUARY:

UK:

1/1/10- Hold Em (IRE)- Brought down, Broke knee, Destroyed
13/1/10 - King Rufo (IRE) - Fell whilst running, Dead
16/1/10- Shamari (FR)- Collapsed and died after the race
23/1/10-Too Forward (IRE)-won the race, collapsed and died.
26/1/10-Its All About You (IRE) - Finished the race, injured, destroyed.
26/1/10-Cherish Witches- Pulled Up, Dead.
30/1/10-Foresight- Broken Leg, Destroyed.

USA:

1/1/10 -Show 'em All-Heart Attack, Dead on track
4/1/10- B.B. Jazz - Brokedown past wire, EOT
7/1/10- I B Bad (10 year old) Finished 2nd, collapsed and died.
9/1/10-Good Man Dan - Brokedown, destroyed
10/1/10 - Discontent- "Bad Step" Pulled Up, Vanned Off
11/1/10- Sullivan's Rainbow- Brokedown, EOT
14/1/10-What's New- Condylar fracture, Destroyed
16/1/10- Bingham- Brokedown, Destroyed
17/1/10-Greatest Passion- Brokedown, EOT
18/1/10 - Freefourme - Brokedown ( Left foreleg) EOT
22/1/10- Mr. Ararat (12 year old) - eased, jogged, walked, dropped/died
22/1/10 -The Mailet - Pulled Up, shattered sesamoid and fractured cannonbone.
23/1/10- Honest Wildcat - Brokedown in claimer race.
23/1/10-Laughing Moon- finished 3rd, Brokedown, Destroyed
25/1/10- Kinsella- Brokedown (In workout) Destroyed.
30/1/10- Icy Call - Fractured left shoulder pulling up, Destroyed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

FEBRUARY:

UK:

3/2/10- Indy Driver - Broken Foreleg, Destroyed
4/2/10- Treasulier - Fell, Dead
6/2/10- Cardinal Spirit - Broken Leg, Destroyed.
7/2/10- Red Moloney - Fell Dead
8/2/10- Earlsfield Raider - Fell Dead
8/2/10- Good Parade - Broken Leg, Destroyed
13/2/10- Witherspoon - Fell Dead
19/2/10- Fantasy Ride - Broken Leg, Destroyed
20/2/10- Alright Now M Lad - Collapsed and Died in Race.
27/2/10-Orana Conti - Fell, Injured, Destroyed
28/2/10- My Turn Now - Collapsed & Died after Race.
28/2/10- Garryvoe - Broken Hind Leg, Destroyed.


USA:

2/2/10-Dontputmeback - Brokedown, Destroyed (On track)
3/2/10- Gotta Get Rich - (Details Soon, Golden Gate Death)
7/2/10- Surley Temple - (Details Soon, Golden Gate Death)
8/2/10- Hockeythehayman - Brokedown in Workout, Destroyed
11/2/10- Wind N Surf -(Details Soon, Golden Gate Death)
11/2/10- Six Eighteen - (Details Soon, Golden Gate Death)
11/2/10 - Electric Feel - Fractious in gate, bobbled start, bad steps into turn, UR, EOT after race, was her 2nd start.
14/2/10- Be Lifted High - (Details Soon, Golden Gate Death)
15/2/10- Suddenly I See - Brokedown, Destroyed.
15/2/10- Thousand Excuses - Brokedown, Destroyed
16/2/10 - All Heart - Brokedown Right Foreleg, Fell and was EOT.
19/2/10- Millennium Park - Brokedown, Fell, Unseated Rider Vanned off and Destroyed.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MARCH:

UK:

5/310- Flemmingsbond - Broken Leg, Destroyed.
6/3/10- Coe - Collapsed & Died after race.
15/3/10 - Proud Presence - Fell, Broken Leg, Destroyed.
16/3/10- Casey Jones - Brought down, Broken Neck, Died. (Cheltenham Festival)
17/3/10- Citizen Vic - Fatal Fall (Cheltenham Festival)
 
Any sports horse is at risk, they may not have fatal falls, but there is still a huge rate of attrition from injury. The difference with racing is that everyone sees it, every race is televised, all the statistics are out there. And as Kerelli says, they are attended to by a vet immediately.
Racehorses in training mostly have a great life.... they get to do what they do best -gallop and run.
 
kerilli said:
it's very fast ground this year by the look of it, which will contribute to some falls.
These horses are treated like Kings and then, for some, they have a quick end if something awful happens while they are doing what they love... and you only have to watch one that has unseated its rider and carries on blithely galloping and jumping for fun, to see that part.
I can't help thinking that, tough and awful as it is, it's better than being deemed slow and therefore worthless, sent to a sale where they might make £600, and then to god-knows-what... 5 star hotel to backgarden shed with a muppet who knows nothing about horses, starves it, or whatever?
That is the real barbarity of racing (and greyhound racing too), that animals that people have made fortunes on, both racing and selling (some pinhookers make shockingly huge sums), have NO safety net to stop them tumbling down in the world. :( :( :(
sorry, will clamber down off my soapbox now...[/QUOTE.

Agree with this and better the poor animals were shot than passed on to some numpty and a rubbish fate.
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Agree with ORANGEHORSE. It is a common misconception that all racehorses, once finished with the career will be classed as problem horses and past from pillar to post.

I work at a National Hunt and I am proud of how my boss keeps her horses, all the horses get more turnout and care than my own! I can lead 4 at the same time into and from the field and they just plod along next to me. All of our horses hunt, unaffiliated dressage to Novice and event a bit in the summer with good results. I know that this isn't all race yards, but having worked there it gives me hope that there are some other yards out there like this. Also once our horses have finished their racing career, they go on to hunt and eventually retired and kept on the farm.

After working in the yard at Cheltenham last year, all the horses behind the scenes are treated like Kings. At least when they do fall and injure themselves, then it all happens very quickly for them. I have seen countless times when normal everyday owners will keep their horse in pain for months because they can't bear to put their horse to sleep, now that is barbaric.

I don't think it is a barbaric sport, but there are yards like mine which have changed my views (I used to think racing was horrible) but then there are also yards where the horses are treated like tools, and maybe for these yards more needs to be done for welfare, but so many people overlook the yards like mine where welfare comes number 1.
 
ElphabaFae, that list, sad as it is, is only relevant taken in context of how many horses run in relation to the number of deaths.
You also have on there a horse that belonged to a friend of mine. She bred her, and did all the pre-training with her, she was given time to mature, it was her second race, and she shattered a hind fetlock on the flat. My friend ran down the track to see her, to say goodbye, and the little horse had no idea what was up. The adrenaline running through her meant she felt no pain. She was bright and happy, given a cuddle, and then dead.
What could have been done to prevent that? Leave her in a field all her life?

She had a wonderful life, and you have turned her into a statistic.
 
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kerilli said:
it's very fast ground this year by the look of it, which will contribute to some falls.
These horses are treated like Kings and then, for some, they have a quick end if something awful happens while they are doing what they love... and you only have to watch one that has unseated its rider and carries on blithely galloping and jumping for fun, to see that part.
I can't help thinking that, tough and awful as it is, it's better than being deemed slow and therefore worthless, sent to a sale where they might make £600, and then to god-knows-what... 5 star hotel to backgarden shed with a muppet who knows nothing about horses, starves it, or whatever?
That is the real barbarity of racing (and greyhound racing too), that animals that people have made fortunes on, both racing and selling (some pinhookers make shockingly huge sums), have NO safety net to stop them tumbling down in the world. :( :( :(
sorry, will clamber down off my soapbox now...
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^^^ this

my old boy raced for 11 years, over 120 races and was ridden by Richard Dunwoody. He went back and forwards to Ireland and England, and went through Doncaster sales at least twice. He was bar fired, and I believe at some point broke his hip. When retired from racing he went on to point to point. I do believe he enjoyed it, I took him XC, and he was the bravest horse I've ever sat on
I would have another ex racer like a shot - he was 110% bombproof, and I could clip, have him shod, groom, handle and load him all without a headcollar on. He even had a huge abcess lanced and a piece of barbed wire removed with no headcollar, and no anaesthetic
I don't agree with the racing them so young, he only started at 4, and I fully believe that was the reason why he was still sound and jumping at 19
 
heather_bambi said:
Agree with ORANGEHORSE. It is a common misconception that all racehorses, once finished with the career will be classed as problem horses and past from pillar to post.

I don't think it is a barbaric sport, but there are yards like mine which have changed my views (I used to think racing was horrible) but then there are also yards where the horses are treated like tools, and maybe for these yards more needs to be done for welfare, but so many people overlook the yards like mine where welfare comes number 1.
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Utterly agree with all of this. The horses are doing what they very much enjoy and I am of the belief that the vast majority of the racing animals are very very well cared for. I also believe alot of them are "unofficially" retrained for life after racing whilst on yard.

I own a 17hh 5 year old ex-Pitman racehorse. I am a novice rider (only been at it a year) and I have no problem with him at all after some good lessons (mainly for me). He is a total gem. What I have the problem with is not the race statistics but all the horses that are destroyed in breeding programs because they don't make the grade. That number is getting bigger all the time and will only do so whilst this "problem ex-racer" syndrome is hyped and perpetuated by all and sundry. Yes there are problem racehorses. There are also problem secion D's, arab, shetland etc, even Shires (and I wouldn't want one of those throwing it's weight around). All I can say is give them a chance and don't excacerbate the statistics.

I've had Sleepy 6 months and only been around horses 20 months and I would not swap him for the world.
 
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Very sad about Citizen Vic, however what a joy he was to watch, in the lead, galloping ears forward and loving every minute of the race. I bet that is the last he ever knew.

It is sadly a fact of owning and having horses, they are very delicate creatures, and things do go wrong, no matter how much we love them or try and protect them. At least his death was quick, he was fit, healthy well fed and doing something he clearly loved.

I am sorry I find Animal Aid as bad as PETA. I personally would far rather come back as a racehorse than a pony staggering with laminitis through an owners ignorance, or kept in a stable because I am to valuable to be allowed a couple of hours in a field.
 
Hi JessPickle,

I would say that if there wasn't a racing industry then there wouldn't be the amount of horses being bred to fill the hooves of the horses that are no longer "commercially viable". It is a vicious circle and it seems that the horses are the only one's who suffer.

These horses are the ones that end up on the scrap heap, they need re schooling and time spending on them which as people point out is not something that the majority of people in this economic environment can afford to do.

I have re trained four ex racers who have now gone on to do other jobs from dressage to showjumping. i just feel that to shoot a horse before 6 years old through no fault of their own is just bad, i have worked at racing yards and not all trainers are bad by any means - it just saddens me it really does :(
 
Allsorts55 said:
MollyMillieMoo - i totally agree barbaric and a total waste of horse life
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Allsorts55 said:
Hi JessPickle,

I would say that if there wasn't a racing industry then there wouldn't be the amount of horses being bred to fill the hooves of the horses that are no longer "commercially viable". It is a vicious circle and it seems that the horses are the only one's who suffer.

These horses are the ones that end up on the scrap heap, they need re schooling and time spending on them which as people point out is not something that the majority of people in this economic environment can afford to do.

I have re trained four ex racers who have now gone on to do other jobs from dressage to showjumping. i just feel that to shoot a horse before 6 years old through no fault of their own is just bad, i have worked at racing yards and not all trainers are bad by any means - it just saddens me it really does :(
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Even if people stopped breeding TB racers today there would still be a HUGE amount of horses around, and if they weren't allowed to race its highly unlikely many would find homes, so short of a mass slaughter that also seems inhumane.
 
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