Child riding in dutch gag and standing martingale?!?

[Kokopelli]

If the pony cannot be ridden by a child at all paces in a headcollar then the pony needs training and retraining until it can.

There is no way you could train all ponies to be like this! Not without taking their spirit anyway.

Take my horse/ pony (he's between sizes) he is a very energetic excitable animal and it would be fool hardy getting on him in a headcollar. I can ride him out to the field in one (in a walk) but the moment he gets excited I jump off.

No matter how much you try to stop using your seat and train him he won't change. He's been pony racing up until a year ago and is just a bubbly horse.

 

[eahotson]

Perhaps I do tend to be a little forthright, lol.

However, to present a child with a pony as you describe is foolhardy and detrimental. The fault here lies with the adult. Training a pony to be responsive and light is not brain surgery, and pushing ponies beyond their limits to induce such lack of confidence is again the adults failing.

There are millions of excuses why training the pony takes second place to shortcuts, from lack of ability to laziness.

If a child cannot handle the pony on the ground without being trampled or dragged then they should not get on.

If the pony cannot be ridden by a child at all paces in a headcollar then the pony needs training and retraining until it can.

Yes you are right Andy BUT I had an AI tell me i needed a martingale on my pony because,somewhat foolishly,I let a real novice ride him for a few minutes once and he threww his head about a bit at first because her hands were all over the place and he wasn't used to it.She had a kind old schoolmaster, was having lessons from another AI and he was ridden in a dutch gag, in a school at the instructors advice.No one worked on her seat or her hands and she didn't know any difference.Her BHS instructor told her to do this.They then got her to keep wacking it because it wasn't forward!!! I mean, I could go on.BUT if you are novice you tend to believe the EXPERTS (Oh and there are so many of these around)LOL and you genuinely don't know any different.I have a fabulous instructor now and she has revolutionized my riding (although I am still not that good) but atleast I know which path I am on now.FULLY agree about the leading etc. and again, some of the worst cuprits are your AIs.If you haven't learned how to ride as an adult the received advice is to go andlearn at a BHS riding school from properly trained staff.Its a JOKE.
OH and you want to see some of the 'schooling' done on schooling livery yards.PM me if you want to know more.

 

[tigerlily12345]

when i had my first pony, a 13.1 welshXarab, he bucked and bolted (A LOT!) i was constantly coming off. as my parents werent very horsy i got some advise from people at my stables (much more experienced, BE people) they put him in a flash, running martingale, grass reins and a kimblewick (sp?) with curb and on the bottom hole for XC. and i was 10 at the time. by the time i sold him at 13 i rode in an eggbutt snaffle, and no noseband, no martingale, no grass reins. so i wish people would stop saying just because shes a child she cant ride. i wasnt aloud a pony til i had had nearly 5 years of lessons on how to treat them (and ride them)

although for the record i now much prefer to ride in a snaffle and few gadgets as possible.

 

[bensababy]

Perhaps I do tend to be a little forthright, lol.


If the pony cannot be ridden by a child at all paces in a headcollar then the pony needs training and retraining until it can.

Sorry but disagree - i would love to see/meet a pony that is 100% child friendly and can do this..ponies are buggers, in all my years of dealing with them - this type to me is like gold dust and i dont think no matter what kind of training they have - they will always have a hint of naughtiness in them.

 

[Tnavas]

As a PC instructor & Examiner I'd rather see a pony in gear that allows it's rider to maintain control so they can enjoy the pony.

 

[BSJAlove]

i dont think any pony is 100%??

id rather have a safe pony who can stop then a pony who cant. my first pony, ridden in a gag and a martingale for everything other then basic schooling. i would have died if she was in a snaffle and went for a gallop! yes i could ride, she was just extreamly strong, and having been a childs pony for ages, she knew every trick in the book to unseat/pull a small child.

 

[Damnation]

I was at a PC rally once. Well I was watching as it was held at the yard I was a livery on.
One girl had a lovely blue roan pony, speedy sharp little thing.. in a Pelham and a flash. The girl was obviously overhorsed, ability wise. Her reins were no more then 12 - 13 inches long. For a 14hh pony I'd say thats quite short.. All I could hear was the instructor shouting "WATCH THAT PONIES WINDPIPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Yes her reins were so short it was impeding on the horses breathing.

Another seperate time at a SJ A child on a grey had his pony in a pelham, grackle, and martinggale. Yanking the pony after every jump then cracking its bum before every single one. I wanted to crack his bum and see how he liked it! The pony was so confused.. he was banned from the SJ.. His parents seemed to think this riding style was acceptable.

In those instances I do not agree with overtacking a pony. Learn how to ride or buy a pony suited to your ability!

 

[mystiandsunny]

If the pony cannot be ridden by a child at all paces in a headcollar then the pony needs training and retraining until it can.

Being completely serious here, I've got one who I can ride bareback and bridleless in an enclosed space, or in a headcollar in an open field, so I've trained her as well as I can to light aids that anyone could give. If you stick a child on her though, they simply don't take charge enough, so she loses confidence that they're in charge and begins to take the michael. That's her personality, and in a safe unexciting environment she will try to look after them, but isn't 100% predictable and can be strong. PLEASE TELL ME HOW TO TRAIN HER TO BE GOOD FOR A LESS ASSERTIVE/CONFIDENT/SKILLED RIDER!!!!!

It can't just be me that has caused the above, 'cause I trained my TB too, and she'll look after anyone, you don't even need to know how to ride really!

 

[Rose Folly]

This has been a fascinating thread.Of course there are many reasons why a pony may be ridden in this or that tack, but overall my sympathies are with becca_norry, AndySpooner lizijj et al. You can put the whole kitchen cupboard in a pony's/horse's mouth and still get disastrous results and have an unsafe ride. And, worst of all, the child will come to rely on those overly strong aids. A teenager came (with nice references) to ride a very quiet hunter of mine. She looked at the mare's snaffle in horror and said "I don't know how to ride in a snaffle. I'd be scared!"

I was bought a very powerful, fast 'old-fasioned' cob as a 13-year old.I had been riding the family TBs since I was 10, so no problem was envisaged. However I couldn't ride one side of the cob. He bolted (and I mean bolted, not tanked) with me, he bolted with everyone, with every sort of bit and martingale. I ended up riding him in something called an American Running Gag. My father, a beautiful horseman and ex-MFH, saw the problem, bought me a lovely quiet 14.2 Connie - and proceeded to mortify me by riding and hunting the cob himself, right into his eighties. The point of the story is that he tied a knot in the curb eien and never, ever used it, the snaffle reins lay slack on the cob's neck, and he simply rode him with beautiful balance, confidence and voice. The cob never bolted with him and was his pride and joy.

As a small child learing to jump, I was ONLY allowed to jump in a headcollar until I had become proficient - and this was not in a school, just the field. Riding kwithout a bridle to hang on to, and often without a saddle, gave me balance and confidence - now alas both ebbing.

The worst feeling in the world is being over-horsed, and perhaps the child at the centre of this thread falls into this category - though becca said she rode extrememly well. It would be interesting to hear more of this child/pony in future threads.

 

[Cadfael&Coffee]

Very interesting post this, and one that is probably discussing issues which are vitality important to the future of horse riding, because these young riders are the future.

To me, what many of the replies highlight, are the simply appalling attitudes to training ponies and children to ride properly.

Anyone who feels that strong bits and other gadgets are truly needed to control a pony and then put a child on board, are just carrying on with the culture of poorly trained horses and riders in this country.

If people cannot take the time to train a pony so that it doesn't need this rubbish, do equestrianism a favour and find another hobby for your child.

People keep talking about children having to be strong to control these ponies, why? If the pony is light and responsive, no child needs to be hauling on the reins, and as for spurs and whips, lunacy.

It doesn't matter what you as an adult do, its too late for the closed minds that do what they've always done, and cannot ride for toffee, but bringing children on properly is so important, both for them, horses and the industry.

Andy, I don't always agree with you, but on this occasion I agree with u completely.

The only time I wouldn't, would be if a child has a pony that gets overly excitable in something like hunting, or for safety on a pleasure ride (u never know what imbeciles might gallop up your bum)

I also don't object to running martingales, but that's because I've had speedy and quirky ponies all my life, and I consider that a mild ish piece of tack

Otherwise, there is no reason for excessive pieces of tack, or quite simply, the child is overhorsed if it can't cope without them.

And as for spurs? Simply madness on a child!!!

 

[AndySpooner]

The more posts that I read here, the worse things sound.

BHS instructors sound like they are of a poor standard.

Then there are the My pony is Untrainable brigade, or it's the breed, or it's because its a pony.

The PC sounds irresponsible at best.

No way does appropriate training destroy spirit.

The truth is that people find any reason to justify this lack of a professional approach to children riding on unsafe uncontrollable mounts.

Little wonder that so many give up, or turn into nervous adult riders or worse heavy handed bullies.

True that there are thousands of excellent considerate riders out there, but if we addressed the issue of presenting suitably well trained ponies for children to ride on there would be so many more.

There is nothing clever about causing a child to have to manage a poorly trained pony. There is no enjoyment in that, for a child.

 

[mystiandsunny]

The more posts that I read here, the worse things sound.

BHS instructors sound like they are of a poor standard.

Then there are the My pony is Untrainable brigade, or it's the breed, or it's because its a pony.

The PC sounds irresponsible at best.

No way does appropriate training destroy spirit.

The truth is that people find any reason to justify this lack of a professional approach to children riding on unsafe uncontrollable mounts.

Little wonder that so many give up, or turn into nervous adult riders or worse heavy handed bullies.

True that there are thousands of excellent considerate riders out there, but if we addressed the issue of presenting suitably well stained ponies for children to ride on there would be so many more.

There is nothing clever about causing a child to have to manage a poorly trained pony. There is no enjoyment in that, for a child.

Would you be able to answer my question now? Could really do with the help, as you're the first person I've 'spoken' to who seems confident they know how! In case you missed it, pony is rideable without bridle or headcollar in enclosed space by small adult, or headcollar in open field, but is more challenging with child, feeding off their lack of assertiveness and deciding she's in charge, which is fine in a safe env as she looks after them, but slightest hint of excitement/danger and it is not good! PLEASE???

 

[Shysmum]

OP, I totally understand your point. . I think the fact that the child is over-horsed probably is the answer as to why she's riding with the kitchen sink.

Constructive debate seems to have gone out the window atm. sm x

 

[ScarlettLady]

Thanks everyone some really interesting comments, I wanted to see the wider picture and peoples different opinions, and I have!

Many of you have talked about jumping ponies with tack like this and hunting / hunter trials - this ride was a flat work ride within an indoor school, i may have been less shocked to see it if we had been in the field or jumping, however I still would have questionned it.

I would never dream of telling the child in the ride that it was totally unacceptable, but probably would question it with parents/guardians with the child at the rally before the ride started incase there was anything I needed to be aware of, as well as what TGM said. However if the child was riding inappropriately as mentioned by Damnation I think I would have to rip said child off pony!!!

My cousin sold her pony around a month ago having outgrown him, she had evented him at pc area level, hunted him etc. all in a snaffle with a running martingale, pony was strong and fizzy, the girl that now has him is a nervous rider and at a hunter trial at the wkend rode it in a dutch gag with running martingale, and still didn't have more control than my cousin had had, infact he very much appeared to be fighting it, but her pony club instructor had told her top pop the gag in him, I didn't feel that the instructor should be advocating this knowing the pony...

I sort of felt like this was an accepted thing in pony club, and teaching the children that it is acceptable to ride in tack like this, to me it isn't unless its absolutely necessary for safety...

Thank you all for your views

 

[Walrus]

Personally, I like to see horses in as simple a tack as possible, but you do have to be realistic sometimes. There are all sorts of reasons why the child might be riding that particular pony, and in that particular tack. Her own pony might be lame and she could be riding a sibling's pony etc, etc. Or they have might just have acquired the pony and it has always been ridden in that tack and they don't want to change it straightaway until they know the pony better. Ponies do often get quite crafty and learn how to take advantage of smaller, lighter riders and a stronger bit is often a useful, hopefully temporary measure to ensure the rider stays in charge of the situation.

When my daughter got her last pony, she rode her initially in a two ring dutch gag a lot of the time - then as she got more confident she reverted to a snaffle. It hasn't led her to believe that 'strong bits' are the norm, or ruined her riding skills forever, etc. In fact she went on to school that pony so well that she ended up in the placings at the RC and PC National Championships in dressage.

To the OP, you asked what you should do if you are faced with a pony in such tack in a PC ride that you are instructing. First thing is to have chat with the rider about how long she has had the pony, why it is ridden in that tack etc, and obviously check that the tack is fitted correctly. Then when the lesson commences check that the rider is riding nicely and not hauling on the Dutch gag etc. If pony and child look happy then I don't think really you need to do much else, although if you wanted you could say to her at the end that it would be lovely to see the pony going in a milder bit once they are more confident/established or more schooling has been done.

Agree with this! Sensible attitude.

Also, FWIW I own a similar build of pony and although in an ideal world it would be lovely to see everyone trotting along in harmony on a light responsive rein etc. these ponies can be total little tanks and sometimes safety is paramount.

 

[ScarlettLady]

The more posts that I read here, the worse things sound.

BHS instructors sound like they are of a poor standard.

Then there are the My pony is Untrainable brigade, or it's the breed, or it's because its a pony.

The PC sounds irresponsible at best.

No way does appropriate training destroy spirit.

The truth is that people find any reason to justify this lack of a professional approach to children riding on unsafe uncontrollable mounts.

Little wonder that so many give up, or turn into nervous adult riders or worse heavy handed bullies.

True that there are thousands of excellent considerate riders out there, but if we addressed the issue of presenting suitably well trained ponies for children to ride on there would be so many more.

There is nothing clever about causing a child to have to manage a poorly trained pony. There is no enjoyment in that, for a child.

The bold bit was me as a teenager due to loss of confidence and poor pc instruction on a young horse! I now ride with a 'classical seat' and don't use gadgets, I think this is why I felt for the child, having been in that situation, I look at photos from then and am utterly ashamed! but that was back in the day when i idolised my pc instruction!!
I love the pony club as an organisation I am not slagging it off at all, however some instructors used arent always the most beneficial more of a quick fix!

at the end of the evening a couple of local instructors asked the pc head instructor what age they should stat the child working on the way of the horse? I was dancing inside when she replied but when you teach the rider to improve their position, balance and getting the horse forwards the way of the horse naturally improves then you only need to teach schooling exercises...
They didn't understand!!

 

[tigerlily12345]

Thanks everyone some really interesting comments, I wanted to see the wider picture and peoples different opinions, and I have!

Many of you have talked about jumping ponies with tack like this and hunting / hunter trials - this ride was a flat work ride within an indoor school, i may have been less shocked to see it if we had been in the field or jumping, however I still would have questionned it.

I would never dream of telling the child in the ride that it was totally unacceptable, but probably would question it with parents/guardians with the child at the rally before the ride started incase there was anything I needed to be aware of, as well as what TGM said. However if the child was riding inappropriately as mentioned by Damnation I think I would have to rip said child off pony!!!

My cousin sold her pony around a month ago having outgrown him, she had evented him at pc area level, hunted him etc. all in a snaffle with a running martingale, pony was strong and fizzy, the girl that now has him is a nervous rider and at a hunter trial at the wkend rode it in a dutch gag with running martingale, and still didn't have more control than my cousin had had, infact he very much appeared to be fighting it, but her pony club instructor had told her top pop the gag in him, I didn't feel that the instructor should be advocating this knowing the pony...

I sort of felt like this was an accepted thing in pony club, and teaching the children that it is acceptable to ride in tack like this, to me it isn't unless its absolutely necessary for safety...

Thank you all for your views

i see your point, a child, riding an indoor flat work lesson in much more than a snaffle would need some explaining IMO. i always rode in a snaffle for anything in the arena, even SJ, despite the fact i would spend 75% of the time galloping round the edge without being able to stop, and eventually he would give up, and stop bucking too. but out hacking, SJ in fields, XC etc i did need a stronger bit as he was unstoppable.

 

[monkeybum13]

Personally, I like to see horses in as simple a tack as possible, but you do have to be realistic sometimes. There are all sorts of reasons why the child might be riding that particular pony, and in that particular tack. Her own pony might be lame and she could be riding a sibling's pony etc, etc. Or they have might just have acquired the pony and it has always been ridden in that tack and they don't want to change it straightaway until they know the pony better. Ponies do often get quite crafty and learn how to take advantage of smaller, lighter riders and a stronger bit is often a useful, hopefully temporary measure to ensure the rider stays in charge of the situation.

When my daughter got her last pony, she rode her initially in a two ring dutch gag a lot of the time - then as she got more confident she reverted to a snaffle. It hasn't led her to believe that 'strong bits' are the norm, or ruined her riding skills forever, etc. In fact she went on to school that pony so well that she ended up in the placings at the RC and PC National Championships in dressage.

To the OP, you asked what you should do if you are faced with a pony in such tack in a PC ride that you are instructing. First thing is to have chat with the rider about how long she has had the pony, why it is ridden in that tack etc, and obviously check that the tack is fitted correctly. Then when the lesson commences check that the rider is riding nicely and not hauling on the Dutch gag etc. If pony and child look happy then I don't think really you need to do much else, although if you wanted you could say to her at the end that it would be lovely to see the pony going in a milder bit once they are more confident/established or more schooling has been done.

100% agree with TGM.

You have a much better way of writing the same thoughts I have so I've just quoted it all

 

[AndySpooner]

Would you be able to answer my question now? Could really do with the help, as you're the first person I've 'spoken' to who seems confident they know how! In case you missed it, pony is rideable without bridle or headcollar in enclosed space by small adult, or headcollar in open field, but is more challenging with child, feeding off their lack of assertiveness and deciding she's in charge, which is fine in a safe env as she looks after them, but slightest hint of excitement/danger and it is not good! PLEASE???

Sorry, didn't think it was a specific question for me.

Obviously, you cannot do anything on a forum other than paint with a broad brush, you really need to spend time and see things in the flesh.

However, what I would say, is that this is a two way thing to build confidence in the child and have the pony take confidence and leadership from the child.

I would have the child play with the pony on the ground, lots of games before expecting the child to ride. When the pony starts following the child everywhere on a long loose rope, its a sign that the pony is taking confidence from the child.

 

[marmalade76]

My cousin sold her pony around a month ago having outgrown him, she had evented him at pc area level, hunted him etc. all in a snaffle with a running martingale, pony was strong and fizzy, the girl that now has him is a nervous rider and at a hunter trial at the wkend rode it in a dutch gag with running martingale, and still didn't have more control than my cousin had had, infact he very much appeared to be fighting it, but her pony club instructor had told her top pop the gag in him, I didn't feel that the instructor should be advocating this knowing the pony...

Yep, seen that before. OH's cousin bought a pony for his daughter as a snaffle mouth, fairly quiet and sensible pony but not really a kick along. This pony has since sported a flash, a martingale, a pelham, a dutch gag (not at the same time though!) and even a Market Harborough!

I think part of it is fashion and it was also mentioned that the child felt more confident with these gadgets If my children need things like this to give them confidence in the future, they will be moving back to a quieter pony!

 

[Kenzo]

I can understand the OP questioning this and I do agree with her point and a lot of Andy Spooner’s comments as well, in some cases it’s not necessary and yes schooling is important, you see some pretty cringing sights as some shows and indeed at some riding schools and you wonder what on earth ....well you just wonder!

However, there are a lot of very good little riders out there, with good hands that ride talented but at times sharp little ponies that do require that little more control, I say control, not necessarily extra breaks, it would be a shame for these ponies not to compete just because there not your typical ‘first ridden’ type pony in nothing but a snaffle, there would be too many little ponies wasted otherwise.

So you can't tar them all with the same brush.

 

[mystiandsunny]

Sorry, didn't think it was a specific question for me.

Obviously, you cannot do anything on a forum other than paint with a broad brush, you really need to spend time and see things in the flesh.

However, what I would say, is that this is a two way thing to build confidence in the child and have the pony take confidence and leadership from the child.

I would have the child play with the pony on the ground, lots of games before expecting the child to ride. When the pony starts following the child everywhere on a long loose rope, its a sign that the pony is taking confidence from the child.

Thank you . We've been doing a fair bit of that, but will keep going and try to do more. We are getting somewhere, but her sharer is still a child, and the minute something worries her (a sudden noise that makes her and pony jump, car passing too close out hacking etc) they go back several steps.

 

[pip6]

My pet hate when xc jump judging is to see kids wearing spurs jabbing their ponies sides & using the whip to try & get them over the jump, with pony wearing a 3 ring gag or another contraption (always with martingale), after mother has had the audacity to approach me holding a lunge whip asking if she can help Jonny get over the first fence because the pony will be 'fine' (or resigned to its fate) after he gets over it.

 

[AndySpooner]

Thank you . We've been doing a fair bit of that, but will keep going and try to do more. We are getting somewhere, but her sharer is still a child, and the minute something worries her (a sudden noise that makes her and pony jump, car passing too close out hacking etc) they go back several steps.

If the child reacts to the noise, car or whatever, the pony picks up on things like that in a nano second, then the rider reacts to the pony reacting and an escalating spiral occurs, and things get out of hand.

I prefer to teach a child to stop the pony on one rein, best in a headcollar, this avoids the pony and child getting into a tug of war which the child loses and a stronger bit is put in.

If the child is confident that they can ask the pony to stop, and it will, builds massive confidence in the rider, knowing they are not going to be carted off with. The more confident the rider becomes the easier the pony becomes to ride as it takes confidence and leadership from the rider.

 

[Eventer96]

What would you think if I turned up at a PC rally with my eventer; who is 17.0hh, ridden in a pelham for jumping phases (with a martingale) and I as the rider, carry a crop and wear spurs. I'm 14, and not very tall (considering size of said horse). Would you automatically assume I haven't spent time on the flat schooling? Or I have no idea what I'm doing?

I find it interesting what people assume from certain situations with regards to tack. Would you question the use of said bits and 'gadgets' if it was an adult riding? Just a musing..

A good post and I can understand why the issue was raised in the first place. I do wonder if the same had been said had it been a lightweight, small adult in the same tack. Don't mean to come across rudely it's just a different spin on the situation.

 

[ScarlettLady]

if you rode effectively and kindly, i wouldn't have a problem, however I would ask you about why... to ensure that you understood.
Some body said to me at 16 that I could ride my horse much better without the flash, draw reins/bungee, spurs etc. I took them up on their offer and certainly can!

However this child is learning to ride, and although a good little rider, their seat is not yet independent from their hands.

In our branch you required a letter signed by the DC to ride in spurs if you were under 18, and wished to ride in them at a PC event.....

 

[Eventer96]

if you rode effectively and kindly, i wouldn't have a problem, however I would ask you about why... to ensure that you understood.
Some body said to me at 16 that I could ride my horse much better without the flash, draw reins/bungee, spurs etc. I took them up on their offer and certainly can!

However this child is learning to ride, and although a good little rider, their seat is not yet independent from their hands.

In our branch you required a letter signed by the DC to ride in spurs if you were under 18, and wished to ride in them at a PC event.....

That is fair enough. I've got a letter that is signed by our DC that enables me to ride in them at ODE's etc. (We're not allowed to wear them if we haven't got our cards. Mine is kept in my BP shoulder pad). I can understand why seeing a 9 year old ride in a dutch gag would turn some heads. But it's slightly annoying when people sterotype and don't think/take into consideration that some PC children can ride sympathetically in stronger bits. I have never touched dutch gags. I personally can't stand them! I've experimented with bits to ensure that I found the correct balance. So he is now ridden in a jointed rubber pelham for jumping and hunting. I know you can't compare a 9 year old to a teenager or an adult so I suppose I'm off topic slightly...

 

[Llewellyn]

Personally I would ask the children at the start when you check the tack why their horse has the tack it does. If for no other reason the answers you get back can be very interesting. Most common I've heard is with running martingales -'It gives me something to hold onto'. (I don't know why people don't just have neck straps) Or with bits - ask if they can name another bit that could do a similar job or how does the bit they have work (watch them look puzzled at 'poll pressure') at least it teaches them something.

When I was at pony club slotted kimblewicks were all the rage and so were grey ponies now its all dutch gags and coloured horses. Both of which I don't like

 

[Kokopelli]

The more posts that I read here, the worse things sound.

BHS instructors sound like they are of a poor standard.

Then there are the My pony is Untrainable brigade, or it's the breed, or it's because its a pony.

The PC sounds irresponsible at best.

No way does appropriate training destroy spirit.

The truth is that people find any reason to justify this lack of a professional approach to children riding on unsafe uncontrollable mounts.

Little wonder that so many give up, or turn into nervous adult riders or worse heavy handed bullies.

True that there are thousands of excellent considerate riders out there, but if we addressed the issue of presenting suitably well trained ponies for children to ride on there would be so many more.

There is nothing clever about causing a child to have to manage a poorly trained pony. There is no enjoyment in that, for a child.

Regarding BHS instructors I think thats a bit off tarring them all with the same brush. Yes some are bloody awful but some are very good including a few people on this forum. I also think with the new ptt system I think RI will be of better quality.

I don't mean this controversially but I'd love to know how to train my pony to the point I can ride him in a snaffle for everything without changing his spirit. He needs that bit of 'hotness' for competitions. We've had many people come out to see him from various walks of life and every single one has given up.

Regarding sensible ponies- I always say that if I ever won the lottery I would train sane and sensible ponies for kids. I think the problem is when you get a safe and sane one they either stay in that family for yonks or it gets sold for a small fortune because it is so safe. There aren't enough safe ponies circulating the market and I'd love to change that but there is no way I could.

Personally I would ask the children at the start when you check the tack why their horse has the tack it does. If for no other reason the answers you get back can be very interesting. Most common I've heard is with running martingales -'It gives me something to hold onto'. (I don't know why people don't just have neck straps) Or with bits - ask if they can name another bit that could do a similar job or how does the bit they have work (watch them look puzzled at 'poll pressure') at least it teaches them something.

When I was at pony club slotted kimblewicks were all the rage and so were grey ponies now its all dutch gags and coloured horses. Both of which I don't like

That is a very good idea. When I start teaching I'll probably do that. When I was little I understood everything that was put on my pony.

 

[ladyt25]

Hmm, I can see the issue with a kid having too many gadgets on their horse and conflicting gadgets at that. However, I don't necessarily agree when people consider that a snaffle is a less harsh bit than the likes of a gag type bit.

Horses are different - some dislike your 'gentle' eggbutt type snaffle and the nutcracker action, others do not go well in a double jointed eithe. Some horses tend to lean on a bit whilst others are more senstive.

The trick is to experiment with a bit to see what works for you an the horse. I don't think it is a question of one bit being harsher than another in many cases. When I was 12 my pony came to us and he was ridden in a pelham with a massive port in the middle. He was still strong in this but I did decide to ride him in a snaffle. i could hack him ok BUT he was strong in canter - head towards the floor! He was v safe though and knew the routes and would stop. I did XC him in the snaffle but my arms were like jelly afterwards! We tried a kimblewick but he just got his head on the floor and would b*gger off. There weren't the choices of bits you have now but then the 'bubble bit' (dutch gag) came about and my friend had one so I wanted one! However, it worked, meant I could slow him easier without hauling on his mouth. He seemed happy in it, i had control.

I ride my horse now in the same gag and I will wear spurs for jumping as well. I have tried numerous bits but have reverted back to the gag but with now a waterford mouthpeice as I think he objected to the nutcracker action of the standard gag bit.

Ok, maybe this girl in question, with it being a flat lesson should have been encouraged to ride in a bit that would be allowed say whilst doing dressage for example but, if she was riding well in what she did have on then I wouldn't be too keen to change it.

Also, as for riding in a headcollar - my horse is well schooled enough and is very well-behaved once you're on board (plus, I've owned him for many years). However, as he is a s*d to lead in a headcollar you wouldn't catch me trying to ride him in one unless I was in an enclosed space!!!! Lol