Children on yard by themselves

[ruth83]

As most have said - some 14 year olds are very capable and responsible, there is no problem there - others are stupid and reckless. I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'.

As a yard owner, how do you police that? 'I am happy that x comes to the yard unsupervised but not y'? Major argument ensues.

YES, insurance spoils, or makes difficult, a lot of things for us nowadays. It has become this way because of the actions of a few. We have to deal with the fallout from this.

If there is a problem, find a yard where the YO is happy for them to be unsupervised and take that risk. Otherwise, follow the rules!

 

[RFido]

I think the answer to something like this depends completely on the individual children and the horse/pony they will be with...

I have ridden since I can remember, probably since I could sit up straight. I remember having my first mobile phone at age 10, because I used to hack in the woods on my own. Sometimes I would go out in the morning and be back just before my tea at night. However, that was with a pony I could trust with my life, that hacked over and under the motorway without batting an eyelid, was actually pretty lazy, and knew the area very very well! Also, times seem to have changed in the last 10 years... My mum used to do the same as me when she was that young... But now I don't think I would feel comfortable letting my little 9 year old cousin do it (and she rides the same pony as I used to!!!!)

If they are on a yard, maybe give them their freedom when there is someone else knocking around to keep an eye on them, or help out if they get stuck on something.. If they are confident and competent, they should be fine; But you can never be too careful xx

 

[Victoria25]

As 13 year olds we all helped out at weekends at a very large riding school - we used to bring all the ponies in first thing headcollars only, no hats and used to gallop them through the fields jumping streams - loved it that was a long time ago though before H&S wasnt really an issue

 

[SCMSL]

I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'.

That was sort of stupid, yes, but I doubt they could've died from going to get the ponies in their socks... the worst thing that could've happen was they got stepped on. And so what? I am pretty sure they would learn a lesson, and 5 days later would be fine.

Kids need to make mistakes, to do silly stuff, and to learn from those situations!

I think if you are concerned about insurance, just have the parents sign a document stating the yard is not responsible for the child's security. This way, if something does happen you have a legal document exempting you from the responsibility.

 

[Tammytoo]

If the YO doesn't want unsupervised youngsters on her yard I don't blame her. Accidents happen and in today's litigeous (sp?)and H&S society she could be landed with a hefty bill if anything went wrong.

Personally, I wouldn't want to leave my son or daughter with a new horse. Even the best horses can be unpredictable until they have settled into their new surroundings.

 

[tinap]

^^^ exactly what I said. It's a new horse & they don't know it, that's where my concerns would lay, not with the ages of the children xx

 

[monte1]

Interesting topic, I had totally unhorsey parents and back in the eighties, (god now I really do feel old!) I too was a totally horse-mad child who got dropped off at the stable yard very early all summer with a packed lunch and stayed there all day with my friend- unsupervised. we had the most wonderful times and probably did lots of things we shouldn't-- but, we survived the ponies all survived and hopefully, it has made me the sensible responsible person I am today . With my own daughter who has been around horses since she was tiny- I have left her at the yard all day while at work from the age of around 11, with the yard owners permission, of course! She is now 14, confident, very independant and (I hope) responsible! I am perfectly happy for her to be at our current yard alone to ride and do the horses. I know she knows what she is doing and there are always people around if she has a problem. ( they also know that I am happy for them to take her in hand and tell her off if the need arose. (although thankfully it hasn't yet!) I also always make sure she has her mobile with her, something we never had . I guess times have changed and it does depend to some extent on the child, but, I hope that by giving our children some of the freedom we had they learn to become good, respectful responsible adults.

 

[monte1]

As 13 year olds we all helped out at weekends at a very large riding school - we used to bring all the ponies in first thing headcollars only, no hats and used to gallop them through the fields jumping streams - loved it that was a long time ago though before H&S wasnt really an issue

LOL ....love it! I did that too and much worse as a child!! I remember running up to my grazing pony in the field to vault on over his bum, next moment I was sat on the ground on my bottom and he had legged it up the field without me !!! happy days!

 

[Jools2345]

a group of 12-15yr olds (mine included) have camped in the field with my horses at the diy yard, they set up the tent, fence round it and take a bbq, my biggest fear is that they will come home with food poisioning

with out being prompted they take buckets and fill them from the water trough and also put the disposable bbq in a metal wheelbarrow before lighting it.

that said if the YO does not want anyone at the yard unattended its their call and you have no choice but to negotiate or do as is required.
i have left my daughter at the yard since she was 12, i do not expect anyone to take responsibility for her,

however if she fell off or got hurt i would expect others to help her out but thats nothing to do with age, i fell off i would expect help too. as it turns out my daughter is called on to hack out with all the nervous and young horses/ponies and riders and she makes me very proud as all the adults on the yard tell me how polite/helpful and responsible she is and how nice it is to see a youngster look after the horse herself.

being left on the yard has nutured this responsibility and ensbled her social skills to develop

 

[Aarrghimpossiblepony]

I think it has to do with the changing demographic as well as health/safety concerns.

Judging by a lot of posters here, they were the first in their families to be "horsey" in the 70's/80's/90's which coincided with many families moving out of the centre of cities to the suburbs.

Now it's those generations who are dominating the livery yards ect. as they did when they were children/teens.

Back in the 70's/80's if it weren't for the unaccompanied children at RS and livery yards, those places would have either ceased to function or be deserted wastelands.

Did we have accidents?
Of course, but we were a lot more capable of bouncing and people should keep that in mind when they have taken a fall post 30yo and are lying in an miserable heap wondering why they are seeing stars.

 

[monte1]

a group of 12-15yr olds (mine included) have camped in the field with my horses at the diy yard, they set up the tent, fence round it and take a bbq, my biggest fear is that they will come home with food poisioning

with out being prompted they take buckets and fill them from the water trough and also put the disposable bbq in a metal wheelbarrow before lighting it.

as it turns out my daughter is called on to hack out with all the nervous and young horses/ponies and riders and she makes me very proud as all the adults on the yard tell me how polite/helpful and responsible she is and how nice it is to see a youngster look after the horse herself.

being left on the yard has nutured this responsibility and ensbled her social skills to develop

Sounds like a wonderful set up. I agree it does help them learn to grow up, I also get plenty of compliments on how helpful and polite etc my (very grumpy when at home) teenager is at the yard and it always makes me smile!

 

[Elsiecat]

As most have said - some 14 year olds are very capable and responsible, there is no problem there - others are stupid and reckless. I caught 2 girls (16 and 14) going to fetch their ponies in from the field in their socks the other day as their feet were 'too hot in boots'.

As a yard owner, how do you police that?

How would have have 'policed' it if they were adults doing that?

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

How would people feel if the YO went off for the half day to do whatever and the children were entirely alone?

For me if the answer is that an adult should have been supervising them, then it's the job of the parents to do so or arrange childcare, not the YO's responsibility.

^5 to this.

A YO is not responsible for babysitting someones kids

 

[julie07711]

...

 

[julie07711]

I certainly do not think the mum is expecting anyone to babysit although i didnt realise 14year olds need babysitting

 

[RainbowDash]

I have met many youngsters who are pretty sensible for their age and to be fair they need the freedom. Yes they may do silly things - who hasn't at this age? If their parents think they'll be fine then so be it.

But I'd take the YO's rules into consideration - if they are happy with the arrangement and the youngsters are sensible and respectful of others on the yard then I don't see a problem.

 

[PolarSkye]

We have a lovely (and very mature) 12-year-old on our yard who is routinely dropped off by parents and left to sort out her (first) horse by herself. Although she has had her horse for a while (about a year), she has only been taking care of him herself for the past three months or so as he was previously on working livery at a riding school - so you could say she is quite novice-y.

She is sensible. Horse is sensible. None of us mind looking out for her. She comes with many of us to competitions and clinics (with her horse). One livery took her hunting for the first time.

I guess the point I am making is that some 12-14-year-olds are perfectly capable of being responsible when left alone.

P

 

[MerrySherryRider]

The most stupid people I've met on yards have been adults not teenagers. YM bringing pairs of horses in flip flops. Owner unable to get his horse out of the field without letting my horse out onto a public road (3X). Owner going into the field with a bucket of food, getting mugged, causing a skirmish and kicking by a group of horses. The list goes on.

At least with a teenager, you can say, 'hey, that's not safe'. Adults can be a little more resistive to advice.

The lovely 15 year old on my current yard will listen if she gets something wrong but usually, she manages her pony quietly and competently, unsupervised. Her step father how ever needs babysitting as with him, the pony gets loose and runs all over the yard.

A few years back, the kids at an old yard used to camp in the fields all summer, they had a great time, one used to be dispatched to collect piles of bacon sandwiches from home and they were left in blissful freedom for weeks on end.

Well behaved youngsters do not need babysitting, badly behaved youngsters and adults do.

 

[ruth83]

How would have have 'policed' it if they were adults doing that?

Sorry, I meant how do you police which are the responsible ones and which aren't rather than the fetching in without shoes. In this case they were read the riot act (firstly they were told it was unsafe and they needed to put their boots on, when they were flippant and said no they were read the riot act). I would expect adults to be treated the same way.

 

[Frosty89]

I've been on yards before where insurance doesn't cover children if they are unaccompanied.

There is a 12year old girl on my yard who comes down most days on her own and I couldn't believe her age when she told me. She is really mature and very helpful. She is always helping bring horses in, muck out and other chores.

As horserider said, I find some adults more difficult. People don't like being told they are doing something wrong.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

I certainly do not think the mum is expecting anyone to babysit although i didnt realise 14year olds need babysitting

Who said anything about a 14 year old?? (looks at her post)


[

Originally Posted by Booboos View Post
How would people feel if the YO went off for the half day to do whatever and the children were entirely alone?

For me if the answer is that an adult should have been supervising them, then it's the job of the parents to do so or arrange childcare, not the YO's responsibility.

.

The above poster was speaking generally people, I have not read all the post I read it to be any aged child including young one.

My comment said "
"A YO is not responsible for babysitting someones kids " A yard owner any yard owner is not responsible for babysitting any kid

 

[sav123]

A friend of mine who has a small livery yard had a similar situation last year. A family of novicey mum, non-horsey dad and 12 & 13 year old daughters moved with their new horse – new as in delivered to yard by the dealer. On that first afternoon after seeing the horse into its stable, the parents left and the girls were left on their own with it. The parents hadn’t said they were leaving – my friend just happened to see their car disappearing down the drive!

The next couple of days set the pattern – the girls were dropped off and then picked up later, and the mum was giving the impression that in school holidays she would just dump them at the yard all day (she hadn’t asked my friend if this would be possible when they looked round).

Because it’s only a small yard, my friend has another job elsewhere so there are a few hours during the day where there is unlikely to be anyone on site as it is mainly adults on the yard who came up around work times . She had said to them when they looked round that it wasn’t the sort of yard where there was always someone around. At the time there were 2 other children who shared a pony, but they were never left on his own, so the issue hadn’t come up before.

As it turned out the girls were fairly competent, but they were also extremely lucky in that the horse was an absolute diamond and didn’t put a foot wrong. The family actually moved the horse after a couple of months as they got a space at a yard where there were other girls the daughters knew. This was before the school holidays so my friend didn’t have the worry of leaving them alone on the yard.

Some of you who are saying you leave your children at the yard sound like it is either your own yard, in which case you already know your animals and that your children are safe to be alone with them, or that your children have had their own for some time and so can now be left. In this case, no-one knows the horse – not the new owners nor the yard owner. Even though you know your children are capable, would you just leave them with a strange horse that none of you know?

What experience have the daughters had? Is it a new horse as in first horse after having had ponies or first horse as in never owned before? Have they shared or helped at eg, a riding school and therefore had some stable management experience or have they only ever ridden and not done the care side?

Did they know the yard/YO previously? If not, then the YO has only got their word on how much they know and if it were me (a YO in a previous life!), I wouldn’t be comfortable with it either until I had got to know the horse and the family and was confident that everything would be ok. Also, would you as parents just leave your children in a strange yard with people and horses you don’t know on day 1?

If the girls are to be left all day in the holidays and the parents are happy to leave them there on their own with no adults around, is there enough for them to do? For example, with my friend above, the parents just assumed their girls could help on the yard. Friend has a very set routine in order to get everything done before she leaves for her other job, and doesn’t have time to be supervising children. (She was able to accommodate it at weekends sometimes, if she wasn’t competing and had the time to supervise them properly.) Also, are the girls able to get home independently during the day if they want or is it the case that once they’re there, that’s it until the mother finishes work?

A lot of you are reminiscing about “the good old days” when you spent all day at the yard without your parents, but as children, you wouldn’t have necessarily been aware if the YO/other adult liveries felt that they were therefore responsible for you and if they were entirely happy about it. One woman at my yard sees it as her “child-free me-time” and therefore would not be wanting to feel she then had to be keeping an eye on someone else’s - even if you hadn’t been directly asked to or wasn’t expected to, like any of us, as a responsible adult you can’t help but feel you have to keep an eye on them and that then detracts from the time you spend with your own horse.

Apologies for such a lengthy post, but I feel it’s not quite as black and white as some people seem to think.

Tea and scones to welcome all the new owners!

 

[Jools2345]

A lot of you are reminiscing about “the good old days” when you spent all day at the yard without your parents, but as children, you wouldn’t have necessarily been aware if the YO/other adult liveries felt that they were therefore responsible for you and if they were entirely happy about it. One woman at my yard sees it as her “child-free me-time” and therefore would not be wanting to feel she then had to be keeping an eye on someone else’s - even if you hadn’t been directly asked to or wasn’t expected to, like any of us, as a responsible adult you can’t help but feel you have to keep an eye on them and that then detracts from the time you spend with your own horse.

the rest of your post is (for me) not relevant, i dont and have never expected anyone to keep more of an eye out for my daughter than they would for another adult.
does this also apply to any novice owner who may do things that are wrong or unsafe, in that others feel the need to be responsible for them? or indeed young or difficult horses.

shall we request that all novice owners/young owners/owners of difficult or young horses are supervised at all times?

i will always help anyone who needs it, whether they are young, old, novice, plain stupid or disagreeable even if they are not from my yard and TBH i would expect the same from others.

stop adding to the nanny state by trying to police the rest of society.

i like most have done many many stupid things in my time and most of them i have learnt from.

but today i hacked out my 6yr old that has only been backed 12wks alone, i did not tell anyone where i was going and i rode on main roads over the a12, along a footpath under the a12, over a small concrete bridge and through a ford. it was great but it could all have gone horribly wrong-so was that stupid? i dont think so as i want a horse that will go anywhere alone and in company and to get that risks have to be taken at some point. or i could just go round and round in circles in a manege

 

[Luci07]

i will always help anyone who needs it, whether they are young, old, novice, plain stupid or disagreeable even if they are not from my yard and TBH i would expect the same from others.

stop adding to the nanny state by trying to police the rest of society.

i like most have done many many stupid things in my time and most of them i have learnt from.

but today i hacked out my 6yr old that has only been backed 12wks alone, i did not tell anyone where i was going and i rode on main roads over the a12, along a footpath under the a12, over a small concrete bridge and through a ford. it was great but it could all have gone horribly wrong-so was that stupid? i dont think so as i want a horse that will go anywhere alone and in company and to get that risks have to be taken at some point. or i could just go round and round in circles in a manege

Actually I think you were wrong! Would it have been that big a deal just to let someone know where you were going and for how long?! I do when I hack out solo and most people do on the yard. You see, I have been the one who has to go looking when a friends horse came back without her and if we had not known where to look, it could have been a long search.

The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service. We have a couple of young girls in the yard and their parents don't dump and run. Yes they might go off when the girls are riding and come back later to collect them but the girls are now both well established with their ponies and competent.

 

[Jools2345]

Actually I think you were wrong! Would it have been that big a deal just to let someone know where you were going and for how long?! I do when I hack out solo and most people do on the yard. You see, I have been the one who has to go looking when a friends horse came back without her and if we had not known where to look, it could have been a long search.

The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service. We have a couple of young girls in the yard and their parents don't dump and run. Yes they might go off when the girls are riding and come back later to collect them but the girls are now both well established with their ponies and competent.

thats my point we all have different opinions on what is acceptable and what is not,no-one one that yard tells anyone where they are going and as i came back one of the youngsters on the yard (12) was going out on her own, there was no-one on the yard when i left and as i came back she was leaving.

 

[sav123]

Jools2345 – you don’t say how old your daughter is, but from your previous posts, it is obvious you have ensured she is competent to be left. The bulk of my post wouldn’t have been relevant to you as it was in response to the OP and subsequent replies, regarding a family with a new horse on a new yard where there were so many unknown factors.

My last point is hindsight really. As an adult, I have changed my riding plans so as not to leave a child alone on the yard (10 or 11 years old – I didn’t know the child/pony/family well enough to know if child really was ok to be left and YM was not around at the time to ask). I wasn’t hovering over watching every move, but equally I wasn’t comfortable with leaving the yard even though I hadn’t specifically been asked to keep an eye out. As a child, I wouldn’t have known if an adult had done this.

Luci07 has summarised the whole thing perfectly here:

The whole question of children at yards would come down whether the children really are fine on their own or whether the parents are treating the yard as a child minding service.

I don’t think I’m “adding to the nanny state and policing society”. I’m not advocating supervising everybody (child or adult) at all times and I’m aware everyone has to learn and like you, I will help out when needed. Over the years I have met several children aged 14 and under who I would be quite happy leaving alone on a yard or letting hack out without an adult. Equally I have met adults who I wouldn’t trust to look after a stuffed toy safely let alone a horse.

Maybe I've just got an over-developed responsibility gene!

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It is not a question of their capability. It is a question of their age. If the YO does not want to take responsibility for them then they are perfectly within their rights to ask that they are accompanied at the yard.

This.
If there are no parents on the yard, YO will have to be responsible for these children, for insurance purposes if nothing else. YO obviously doesn't want to be a baby-sitting service. And I can't say I blame her/him.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Echoing above post basically.

As a YO myself (albeit DIY only) I've got a rule that no-one under the age of 18 is to be left on the yard by themselves. This is not only for safety but also to cover any child protection issues.

Any YO with children on the yard unaccompanied is laying themselves wide open in this day and age. OK so in the old days we kids used to traipse along to the yard and basically haunt the place from dawn to dusk, without any issues or problems, but that was then and regrettably its just not a possibility to allow this to happen any more.

Plus the fact that YO's/YM's should NOT be expected to babysit everyone else's kids. It just isn't fair - why should they?

 

[SO1]

I think it is different now and those who were left on their own on yards as children in the olden days were probably not completely on their own, there was probably an adult somewhere in the background or older teenagers around who could help out if necessarily.

I used to have ponies at home as a child and hacked out alone aged 11 but the amount of traffic we had was completely different then and my mum was at home not at work so she would know I had hacked over to my friends house to go for a ride with her and her pony.

Personally I don't think it is a good idea for a child to be left on their own with no-one else on the yard especially if their parents are at work and cannot be got hold of or come quickly if needed. Sadly I think we are in a sueing culture and I YO should ask parents to sign a disclaimer to say they won't sue if they are leaving their child unsupervised at a yard and there is an accident. In this day and age it is the parents I think that are more of a problem blaming YO if child has an accident that would put me off if allowing unsupervised children if I was a YO. In some ways children are more likely to have an accident as they tend to have less fears than adults and may take risks that adults might not take.

Of course most people would look out for each other when at the yard be it an adult or child but dealing with a child that has had an accident or doing something dangerous is often more difficult that an adult because you get the rath of the parents to have to deal with. It is not that I don't want to help children it is that I don't want to have some angry parents screaming at me if something goes wrong. As adults we are responsible for the risks we take but it is v difficult to be responsible for the risks other people's children take.

As in the example above about the kids without the boots the poster said she did not think it would matter if the kids got a badly broken foot because one of the ponies stood on their foot as they were not wearing boots but the parents of those children might not take the same view if the kids ended up with a broken foot they would probably blame the adults for not stopping them.

 

[rachyblue]

I shouldve added,sometimes the yard owner isnt around and the girls are left by themselves,but in my friends defense what is she meant to do,spend the whole day at the yard just so she can supervise her Daughters,

Um yes. Stable yards aren't a crèche. Horses are dangerous animals and most premises insurance doesn't cover unattended children. If there is a mishap, the ambulance service will take a child to hospital by default if there is no adult to sign for them,even if they aren't severely injured.