Choke- saracens releve

that's fair enough, it's always a personal choice :) I'm just saying i'd still feed it in the right circumstances.
My TB eats a big bowl of dry mix (not re-leve) because that's just what works for him but it breaks all the feeding rules! i think it's a case of knowing your horses and playing things by ear.
 
I follow a lady on facebook - Blackhill Eventing. This morning (funnily enough) she recommended Red mills comfort mash. I've not heard of it before, but from what she says about it, she uses it for the same reason relieve is intended for.

Might be worth a look X
 
I'm really disappointed in Saracens if they aren't taking significant action at this point then. It's a useful feed in other respects. I didn't know there was a significant choke link until a couple of weeks ago I saw a few posts on here.
 
Hope that Bear picks up soon, Michen. That must have been very alarming.

I’ve never fed it (and certainly won’t do so in future after hearing about all the reported choke episodes :oops:). I just looked it up on the Saracens website, and under ’feeding rate guidance’ it said:-

‘Saracen Horse Feeds recommend that Re-Leve is fed soaked and mixed with a quality chaff.‘

So they just ‘recommend‘ soaking it, do they? No extra warnings or anything? Not a professional response.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Hope that Bear picks up soon, Michen. That must have been very alarming.

I’ve never fed it (and certainly won’t do so in future after hearing about all the reported choke episodes :oops:). I just looked it up on the Saracens website, and under ’feeding rate guidance’ it said:-

‘Saracen Horse Feeds recommend that Re-Leve is fed soaked and mixed with a quality chaff.‘

So they just ‘recommend‘ soaking it, do they? No extra warnings or anything? Not a professional response.
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Nope and not even a reference to how soaked. I did about double the amount of water to the feed as if it was speedibeet. Edited as didn't explain that right, so 2 scoops water to 1 scoop feed equivalent.

I have messaged Saracens and they have asked for some more details.
 
just looked it up on the Saracens website, and under ’feeding rate guidance’ it said:-

‘Saracen Horse Feeds recommend that Re-Leve is fed soaked and mixed with a quality chaff.‘

So they just ‘recommend‘ soaking it, do they? No extra warnings or anything? Not a professional response.[/QUOTE]


Originally, there were never any instructions about feeding soaked/wet, as 'theoretically' it doesn't have to be. So they have listened to feedback.
If horses are still prone to choking even when soaked, I suppose they will have to change the recipe.
I've been feeding it for about 2 years to two different horses and not had problems, soaked or unsoaked. (One horse has previously choked on other feed)
I wonder if it's as MP says, and the taste of it makes them guzzle it down.
 
mavandkaz said:
just looked it up on the Saracens website, and under ’feeding rate guidance’ it said:-

‘Saracen Horse Feeds recommend that Re-Leve is fed soaked and mixed with a quality chaff.‘

So they just ‘recommend‘ soaking it, do they? No extra warnings or anything? Not a professional response.
Click to expand...


Originally, there were never any instructions about feeding soaked/wet, as 'theoretically' it doesn't have to be. So they have listened to feedback.
If horses are still prone to choking even when soaked, I suppose they will have to change the recipe.
I've been feeding it for about 2 years to two different horses and not had problems, soaked or unsoaked. (One horse has previously choked on other feed)
I wonder if it's as MP says, and the taste of it makes them guzzle it down.[/QUOTE]

There will be far more horses not having problems with it than those having them, else there would be an even bigger outcry!

I don’t think it’s acceptable to not dictate how much soaking it needs either. Maybe my 1 part feed to 2 parts water wasn’t enough?

With all the reports of it causing choke I’m shocked that they have literally only just changed the recommendation to soak it.
 
I get what you're saying.
But was just thinking .. we are presuming it's the fact it swells up that is causing the choking. But maybe it's something else.(not that it makes it any better)
I've known a fair few horses that have accidentally eaten unsoaked sugar beet or similar (either due to some sort of mix up, or where they have escaped and gotten into the feed room) and the concern there is colic rather then choke. Would it really have time to swell up just during the swallowing process? Surely it's more likely to swell up further down the digestive tract? (Similar if a human ate a dried food that should be soaked before/during cooking, you could swallow it, but would cause issues later on)
Genuine question/musing, if anyone can give me an answer?
 
Michen said:
Nope and not even a reference to how soaked. I did about double the amount of water to the feed as if it was speedibeet. Edited as didn't explain that right, so 2 scoops water to 1 scoop feed equivalent.

I have messaged Saracens and they have asked for some more details.
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Sounds like they should say “must” be soaked and for how long as a minimum. I wonder why though once soaked it can still cause choke. I wonder if the flaky bits in it get stuck?
 
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mavandkaz said:
I've known a fair few horses that have accidentally eaten unsoaked sugar beet or similar (either due to some sort of mix up, or where they have escaped and gotten into the feed room) and the concern there is colic rather then choke. Would it really have time to swell up just during the swallowing process? Surely it's more likely to swell up further down the digestive tract? (Similar if a human ate a dried food that should be soaked before/during cooking, you could swallow it, but would cause issues later on)
Genuine question/musing, if anyone can give me an answer?
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i think you're right, I am sure I've read somewhere about it not absorbing enough to cause an obstruction *in general*

off down a google rabbit hole! there's probably a difference between shreds and nuts, shreds hardly swell really.
 
I’ve just received a sample of recovery’s mash from Saracen, not a word on packaging about soaking, although I do know it must be soaked.
 
The two old men have been on Re-leve for years. M's feed gets made up in the morning and mixed with fast fibre so it's well soaked. Archie doesn't like anything mushy so just has his neat with quite a lot of added water about 10 minutes before eating it. He also has a single handful, dry, with danilon when he needs it as it's the best way to get the danilon down him. Neither has ever had any trouble eating it but neither is particularly gutsy - Arch will leave his feed half way through, go and have wee, eat a bit of hay and will then nibble at the hard feed now and again overnight.

Arch has had a mild episode of choke once - that was on hay of all things!
 
dorsetladette said:
How's bear doing now Michen?
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He's out in the field with Bog and been checked on by the yard and is fine and happy. I'm heading up shortly to see for myself as well and give him a hug. He usually comes in during day but I'll probably keep him out for another 24 hour or so just to be safe (so no eating hay). Thanks for checking xx
 
If you are worried, I recommend Lamigel. I asked about it on here some time ago as I thought it was all hype and not good, and most posters agreed. However, the friend who had recommended it absolutely insisted I try it, so I did and it actually had the desired effect.

You feed it like a sort of soup. The desired effect was that my mare went through a time where she was behaving but was too reactive to stuff. Anything. Nothing in particular. They advised that a few weeks on Lamigel she would be Mrs relaxed. She was. But the feed is recommended for horses after choke or colic surgery.

I know that most don't think it is good, but my personal experience was good with it.
 
Lammigel is great Oh I know there is some reluctance to accept it in the UK but both Lammigel and Equidgel are good hydrating balanced feeds as long as there is access to forage and free access to water
 
I hate choke it's horrible Louis had a few episodes a few years back, it was always after hay though not feed and he had a nasty one where he had to be tubed and his nose bled so bad, the vet and I were covered in it we looked like we had committed murder! I had just changed him on to shavings that day so the bed was a sea of red as well:(
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Sounds like they should say “must” be soaked and for how long as a minimum. I wonder why though once soaked it can still cause choke. I wonder if the flaky bits in it get stuck?
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I did wonder that too. If you soaked a pelleted feed then the pellets consist of finely ground particles bound together, so when well soaked there should be nothing big enough to cause a choke. Whereas with Releve, it has some ingredients like the beet and grass pellets which should soak down into fine particles very well but still contains things like pea flakes and soya flakes which won't, so perhaps that is part of the problem. Or alternatively, it is because they don't specify soaking time or volume of water to feed so the feed is still under-soaked when fed.
 
Poor bear xxx i use top spec feeds for everything in particular top spec mash amd lucily never any problems but i can imigine would be very scary for u xxxx hope he has a settped nighy xxx keep us updated xx
 
One of ours chokes on any kind of chaff.
We now feed spillers speedy mash (with Micronised linseed If she needs weight) . It also needs soaking, but only for 2 minutes or so. Touch Wood, have had no issues since we have been feeding it.
Glad Bear ok now, as choke is very frightening if it doesn't clear.
 
Have also seen comments re: choke but then also know of several peeps who feed it with no issue! If I’d had one choke on it though I’d also swap, Michen.
 
Well you won’t believe it but this morning my old boy decided he didn’t want all his Saracen Releve breakfast so my younger horse ate it and got (luckily) a mild case of choke! I can’t totally put it down to the SR as there were grass nuts in it and some hay had fallen in transporting it to the field. But what a bloody coincidence!

Typically vet arrived just after he managed to clear it himself but she checked him over as he was quite subdued. Fingers crossed all ok now ??.
 
Sussexbythesea said:
Well you won’t believe it but this morning my old boy decided he didn’t want all his Saracen Releve breakfast so my younger horse ate it and got (luckily) a mild case of choke! I can’t totally put it down to the SR as there were grass nuts in it and some hay had fallen in transporting it to the field. But what a bloody coincidence!

Typically vet arrived just after he managed to clear it himself but she checked him over as he was quite subdued. Fingers crossed all ok now ??.
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Wtf!!!! That is just spooky timing tbh. Was it soaked!? Saracens have left me a voicemail, so I’ll call them back shortly.
 
Has this been happening for a long time or have they changed the feed in some way? 4-5 years ago I was feeding it dry to my little mad ex-racer who had choked on other feeds but he didn't choke on this. And this is a horse with the biggest self-destruct button you've ever seen!
 
PapaverFollis said:
Has this been happening for a long time or have they changed the feed in some way? 4-5 years ago I was feeding it dry to my little mad ex-racer who had choked on other feeds but he didn't choke on this. And this is a horse with the biggest self-destruct button you've ever seen!
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I don't think so. I feed dry (well dampened down as fed with chaff) and haven't had issues either, with both a 'picker' and a 'guzzler'
I think there have been cases of choke for quite a while, and then it became known that it does swell when soaked, so then after some complaints/social media pressure Saracens have changed feeding instructions to suggest soaking.
But as I said earlier, I don't think that's why horses are choking. Either there is something else going on - maybe one of the ingredients doesn't get chewed properly, or is 'sticky', or for some reason horses are eating too quickly (maybe the blackberry flavour is just too nice)
Who knows?
 
I fed relieve unsoaked (I didn’t realise!..I do now!) with no issues when mine had ulcers, but only in small quantities and he isn’t a pig so didn’t stuff it all in his face fast. Unlike small Dartmoor who had a handful of unsoaked thunderbrooks hay cobs and choked badly, full late night vet job. For me the pony pigging and Inhaling his food instead of chewing it was the issue, rather than the actual product I think.
 
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