Clipping for weight loss has anyone done it?

[Lintel]

This mannerisms of people on this thread is the very reason I hold back from asking a lot of questions. ?



I was in your position OP, it is difficult having a yard with no winter turnout?

 

[wattamus]

OP what you say does not really make sense.

So before you had cancer one horse was exercised by your husband, and presumably the other had to be hand walked as you have no turnout and it could not be ridden? Or did the other horse stand in his box 24 hours a day?

Then you bought another horse to ride, knowing that you have no turnout in winter and that you cannot ride in the week due to working during daylight hours and lack of dry indoor arena. Ill health aside how did you intend to exercise the horse?

And why is the horse not saleable? You bought it, and with the greatest respect you do not come across as a huge expert, so unless it has seriously regressed I would presume that you could sell it at a low price to someone who can meet the horse's basic needs.

I don't think this has anything to do with your illness, it is just that you are either unable or unwilling to make time to properly care for your animals.

You seem to think that horses are things that only need exercise as long as it is fun for us - riding on a warm summer evening. Sadly this is not the case.

You come across as selfish and thoughtless. You do not want a sharer as they will not 'care' for the horses as you do - you are not even there! Almost anything that anyone else did with these animals would be better than what you are doing.

I am sorry but you are a terrible owner. I hope that I never see horses kept as yours are. I agree with Leo - putting them to sleep would be a much better option than staying under your 'care'.

Wow very judgemental.......
I am not a confident person but I know my horses are very well cared for. Keep your judgements to yourself I asked for advice.
Please feel free to ring any welfare charity I can guarantee they will tell you where to shove it ?
I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........

 

[Winters100]

I think terrible is a little strong don’t you?! These horses are fed, watered and loved. Winter presents us all with challenges but we must remember it will not last forever and I’m sure as soon as this lady is able, the horse will be turned out. these Horses could easily be turned out 24/7, ignored and mistreated - in the grand scheme of things I think they are ok!

No, I think that terrible is not strong enough. She clearly does not care. Says that this is due to illness, but it is not. What were her intentions for exercising her horses over winter in a yard with no turnout? She says that she cannot ride them during daylight hours, so I would presume that she had intended to walk them. Why is she not doing it? And if she had time to ride for an hour she has time to walk for an hour, or even longer with no tacking up. The arena is wet, but her husband is able to walk the horse there if it is dark, So if she committed time to it she could walk them in the arena. Why have 3 horses if you do not have the time or means to give them an acceptable standard of living? The horse does not care that it is loved - it first needs its basic needs to be met and this is not happening.

 

[Sylph]

nor sycophantic comments wrongly telling them that they were doing a wonderful job for sure....

I don’t think an

nor sycophantic comments wrongly telling them that they were doing a wonderful job for sure....

I don’t think anyone, including the OP has described the situation as wonderful! I think "trying to make the best out of a bad situation" comes to mind. You must be blessed that you haven't found your self up a creek without a paddle

 

[Winters100]

[QUOTE="
I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........[/QUOTE]


OK, so what "mental stimulation" are you giving them? And on what basis do you "know they are happy"?

 

[{97702}]

Wow very judgemental.......
I am not a confident person but I know my horses are very well cared for. Keep your judgements to yourself I asked for advice.
Please feel free to ring any welfare charity I can guarantee they will tell you where to shove it ?
I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........

And sadly you have just illustrated that you know absolutely zilch about what a horse needs in life ?

 

[wattamus]

And sadly you have just illustrated that you know absolutely zilch about what a horse needs in life ?

Clearly. And yet ive managed to take care of healthy happy horses for the past 20 years.........

 

[Winters100]

Wow very judgemental.......
I am not a confident person but I know my horses are very well cared for. Keep your judgements to yourself I asked for advice.
Please feel free to ring any welfare charity I can guarantee they will tell you where to shove it ?
I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........

And yes, I do judge you. You and anyone else who would keep horses in such a condition. Tell me what is stopping you getting up an hour earlier to walk your horse?

 

[{97702}]

I don’t think an

I don’t think anyone, including the OP has described the situation as wonderful! I think "trying to make the best out of a bad situation" comes to mind. You must be blessed that you haven't found your self up a creek without a paddle

not blessed at all - I was realistic enough to give up horses (and yes it was incredibly bloody hard!) when I knew I didn’t have the money to support it any more! It’s not rocket science, it’s what I owe the animals I am responsible for!

 

[{97702}]

Clearly. And yet ive managed to take care of healthy happy horses for the past 20 years.........

well since you don’t know what their basic needs are, I’d hazard a guess that you don’t actually know whether one is happy or not

 

[wattamus]

A Simple study of horse behaviour and psychology can tell you a lot of what you need to know about a horses mental state. None of mine have stable vices or issues etc. Which would suggest a level of contentedness

 

[AmyMay]

I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........

I agree that horses probably don’t care about whether they’re exercised. But your horses aren’t turned out and get a bare minimum leg stretch. Exercise is one thing, but being stuck in a stable 24/7 is another. And there’s a massive difference.

I don’t think you’re an unkind or selfish owner. Just one in a difficult situation, with one too many horses.

 

[Winters100]

not blessed at all - I was realistic enough to give up horses (and yes it was incredibly bloody hard!) when I knew I didn’t have the money to support it any more! It’s not rocket science, it’s what I owe the animals I am responsible for!

Well done you. You took the unselfish route and put the horse's wellbeing first. I also had to sell a horse who I could not care for due to a long term injury. People said to me at the time that it must have been a difficult decision, the reality was that it was rather difficult to deal with, but certainly not difficult to make. I knew that I was responsible for him and that I could not give him what he needed. I am now in frequent contact with his new owner and he is in exactly the right place. If you have animals you have to put their needs above your wants. OP does not want to sell the horses, does not want a sharer, does not want to get up an hour earlier to walk them. So the decision is clear, she has to sell the horses or send them somewhere that they can be cared for.

 

[Ali27]

I have a 14.2 Irish mare who is a very good doer and also gets super warm. She needs to lose some weight but although hunter clipped, I won’t have her naked until March when it warms up. She does the majority of the Winter clipped in 100g. She needs to lose some weight so I’ve decided to chuck her out in 5 acre field 24/7 without hay. She stuffs herself silly with hay when in overnight. I once kept her on Full livery with only 5 hours turnout so would ride/ lunge/ walk her every night as I felt bad for her. No way could I keep a horse in 24/7 unless on boxrest! I would be looking at new yards or renting some grazing!

 

[Winters100]

A Simple study of horse behaviour and psychology can tell you a lot of what you need to know about a horses mental state. None of mine have stable vices or issues etc. Which would suggest a level of contentedness

Are you serious? The horse has to show some sort of vice to get your attention?

And why do you not answer the questions about what your intentions were for exercising your 3 horses during winter? If you are in an area that has a lot of clay you must have known that turnout was likely to be impossible? Maybe you did not know that the arena would flood - so I suppose you were intending to ride or hand walk?

How did you plan to keep your horses with adequate exercise?

 

[ElleSkywalker]

The Spindles Farm people were terrible owners or worse. Get some perspective people.

 

[Sylph]

The Spindles Farm people were terrible owners or worse. Get some perspective people.

Agreed

 

[{97702}]

The Spindles Farm people were terrible owners or worse. Get some perspective people.

ESW I really like and respect you as a poster, but I’m afraid I can’t buy into the idea that because this isn’t as bad as Spindles Farm then it is OK ?

 

[Winters100]

The Spindles Farm people were terrible owners or worse. Get some perspective people.

No, that was much worse than being a terrible owner, this was a case of animal cruelty to the level that it was a criminal offence. To be a terrible owner you do not need to sink to the level of being a criminal.

 

[Winters100]

Why does OP not want to answer the question about how she intended to provide adequate exercise for 3 horses over winter in an area with clay soil?

 

[twiggy2]

A Simple study of horse behaviour and psychology can tell you a lot of what you need to know about a horses mental state. None of mine have stable vices or issues etc. Which would suggest a level of contentedness

Or that they are shut down

 

[Sylph]

Why does OP not want to answer the question about how she intended to provide adequate exercise for 3 horses over winter in an area with clay soil?

I would imagine because she is utterly fed up at the constant barrage of "terrible owner" comments. My horses are currently out 24/7 in horrendously wet fields... Answer me this... Am I a terrible owner too at the other end of the spectrum?

 

[{97702}]

I would imagine because she is utterly fed up at the constant barrage of "terrible owner" comments. My horses are currently out 24/7 in horrendously wet fields... Answer me this... Am I a terrible owner too at the other end of the spectrum?

No of course you aren’t because your horses have freedom to move around, self exercise, find what limited food there is (I assume you are also putting out hay twice daily?) and live a far more natural lifestyle!

I do wish people would realise that this isn’t about persecuting some poor little HHOer for me, it’s about objecting to an animal that doesn’t have the basic conditions needed for a normal existence. I’d feel the same if it was a dog chained up in a yard 24/7. I don’t hate (or even dislike vaguely!) the OP, I just don’t think it’s fair to keep horses like that ?

 

[Winters100]

I would imagine because she is utterly fed up at the constant barrage of "terrible owner" comments. My horses are currently out 24/7 in horrendously wet fields... Answer me this... Am I a terrible owner too at the other end of the spectrum?

I suppose you are managing the situation with your horses so no, I would not say that this would make you a terrible owner. But this woman was clearly horrified by the suggestion that 2 hours a day out of the box was the minimum. She hides behind an illness with no explanation of what her intentions were had she not been ill.

And frankly if I post "i keep my child in a small room all day without movement. Will turning the heating off make them lose weight?" would I not expect some comments that this was not an acceptable standard of care?

 

[be positive]

I would imagine because she is utterly fed up at the constant barrage of "terrible owner" comments. My horses are currently out 24/7 in horrendously wet fields... Answer me this... Am I a terrible owner too at the other end of the spectrum?

I wasn't going to comment on this thread as I felt most that needed saying had been but I wanted to respond to this, some of my horses are also out 24/7 in a wet field and are perfectly happy in their rugs, with good natural shelter, a supply of hay and two feeds a day, they would not be happy shut in 24/7 for more than a day or two, although would all accept box rest if required.
My 30 year old pba had dropped a bit of weight so came in at night for a few days to build up and spent a few days alone in a drier field with more grass he is fine alone but yesterday voted to go back out by breaking through the fence, cantering about, came in and got stroppy, turned out with a quiet pony which he chased about until I relented and put him back with the others, he is now out 24/7 and looked very pleased with himself in the evening, if he were unwell he would accept being in as have all my others but for now I am more than happy he is feeling so well and will leave him out.

My main complaint is with YO's who will not provide any turnout in winter, do not offer any alternative such as a decent arena or even a small sandpit they can go in for a roll/ play, because they want the grass for summer then most owners seem to end up using muzzles, my land generally gets trashed over winter yet it always recovers in spring, it is clay and low lying, my liveries have daily turnout all winter and 24/7 from April - Oct and I usually have several out all year round, I am not precious about the land, it actually looks ok at the moment apart from a few muddy areas, I want it to be used for the purpose I own it, for the horses to enjoy not to look pretty, although it does look pretty most of the year.

 

[ElleSkywalker]

ESW I really like and respect you as a poster, but I’m afraid I can’t buy into the idea that because this isn’t as bad as Spindles Farm then it is OK ?

I didnt say it was ok.

The Spindles Farm people were terrible owners or worse. Get some perspective people.

It's not ideal but has been caused as I understand it by a sequence of unfortunate events that could not be foreseen, cancer, loss if income through cancer, the wettest autumn since records began. do not forge¹t this lady was asking about something her VET advised her to do that she didnt feel comfortable with. This is not a terrible owner, this is an owner who is reying to do what she can with the situation as is

As I said earlier advising her to sell or move yard this time of year when things are about to improve could be counter productive. I am sure after this winter she will be looking into other livery options and may even sell a horse or two when able to show to a better advantage. If she is still in this situation next winter then yes, shes not being a great owner, but for now with the information we have I do not believe she is anything less than a caring owner who has been dealt a bad hand and is doing her beat to rectify what she can. Time will tell.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

OP, in your position I would be finding a field with a nice little shelter, anywhere along your route between work and home.

I’d take shoes off, rug up and chuck out. I’d rough off properly and not even consider riding until it’s drier and lighter.

I’d feed hay twice a day, and do a basic check- two ears, two eyes, four legs, four feet, done. In your shoes probably split that between you and your husband, until you’re feeling a bit better.

I’d focus on getting enough rest, recovering from your illness and lessening the pressure on your life while you are not yet well again.

Life’s too short- for us and for our horses- for 24/7 stabling.

 

[Winters100]

I didnt say it was ok.
It's not ideal but has been caused as I understand it by a sequence of unfortunate events that could not be foreseen, cancer, loss if income through cancer, the wettest autumn since records began. do not forge¹t this lady was asking about something her VET advised her to do that she didnt feel comfortable with. This is not a terrible owner, this is an owner who is reying to do what she can with the situation as is

As I said earlier advising her to sell or move yard this time of year when things are about to improve could be counter productive. I am sure after this winter she will be looking into other livery options and may even sell a horse or two when able to show to a better advantage. If she is still in this situation next winter then yes, shes not being a great owner, but for now with the information we have I do not believe she is anything less than a caring owner who has been dealt a bad hand and is doing her beat to rectify what she can. Time will tell.

In my opinion you are missing the point that every reasonable suggestion is rejected because she does not want a sharer, does not want to get up an hour earlier to exercise the horses etc etc. She compares box rest to keeping a horse in this way for no medical reason. Says that they are happy and healthy with this life. If she were saying that she was devastated to be in this position but was bedridden and without resources it would be different, but no, she says that the horses do not need to go out and that they have 'mental stimulation' (she refuses to specify what). She bought another horse despite already having 2, surely she knew how much time it takes to keep horses properly in winter and that restricted or no turnout is a possibility that we all have to plan for. Horses having not as much exercise as we would ideally like is very different to horses kept inside 23 hours and 40 minutes every day. And she bought another so she would be able to ride - what about her 2 others? Do they get any time out of the box at all? Because if I had no time to exercise my 2 I would certainly not be buying a third. This is not a 'sequence of unfortunate events' for anyone other than the poor horses who had the misfortune to land in the hands of a selfish and irresponsible owner.

 

[NLPM]

OP I think you've had some harsh comments, but they come from people who really do have your horses' welfare in mind. They're not just spoiling for a fight.

I know you asked about clipping, but I think the change of focus to other ways to keep your horses is justified. Stabling 24/7 is not natural, not fair, and not comparable to box rest. I have done 24/7 stabling over winter months in the past and believed my horse to be happy the whole time. He had turnout in the arena and was ridden daily, in reasonably hard work (indoor arena). It was only after a move to somewhere with winter turnout that I realised he had, in fact, been desperately unhappy. Hopefully your yard will lift its ban on turnout soon as we move towards spring - can't be many more weeks of winter left!


Looking ahead to next winter... If livery is too expensive, what about renting a field? Yes, it will be muddy at times, and you might not be able to afford one with an arena, but having no arena sounds no different to your current situation! 24/7 turnout doesn't require 'no time', but it can be used differently - a) they get some exercise from being turned out - they DO care about being able to stretch their legs b) any you feel need more exercise/training etc. can be led/ridden around the field whilst you check the fences etc. c) the 90 minutes you'll save twice a day on mucking out can go into riding (if you're on 'your' land, ride in the dark!), taking time to recover, etc.. The money you save on bedding goes on rent/paying someone else to poo pick etc., grass mats to deal with mud, etc. Frees up even more time.

I believe that horses don't give a shit whether they're exercised or not, as long as they have food, water and mental stimulation they are happy. Mine have that and I know they are happy.........

I am very interested in what mental stimulation your horses have whilst in their stables?

I tried horse footballs for mine (in the field). They were interested for all of two minutes.

 

[NLPM]

Oh, in answer to your actual question... Yes, I have clipped for weight loss. My general approach is that obviously, I'd like them to be just right. However, if I'm going to get it wrong then I'd always rather they were slightly too cold than too hot, on the grounds that once they're too hot in a rug it's incredibly difficult for them to cool down, so very uncomfortable (plus colic risk increases, etc.). It's far easier for them to warm themselves up.

That said, their methods are forage and movement. Stabled horses can't use movement, so your horse will have to get warmth from forage. Soak the hay - really good for weight loss - and substitute some with TopChop Zero or similar to keep a reasonably steady stream of food. Is there anyone that could chuck a haynet in during the day so she can have smaller haynets more often rather than big ones at the start and end of the day? Given that she was shivering I'd have to keep the fleece on; leaving her to shiver for hours on end with no method of warming herself up sounds awful.

Difficult one, though - as your vet has seen the horse, and presumably you told the vet the horse was stabled 24/7, yet they still advised clipping, (and a hunter clip is not exactly a 'little' clip), I'm making an assumption that your horse is extremely obese. I can understand why you asked for advice.