Clipping for weight loss has anyone done it?

[Chianti]

Unfortunately although this case is extreme I don't think this level of care is that unusual. It's far too easy to own a horse or pony in this country. If you want to you should have to have a license and livery yards should be inspected for basic levels of care. Very few of us are on perfect yards but if a yard can't give turn out in fields they should have to be able to offer dry paddocks so horses can wander around for a few hours a day.

 

[Merrymoles]

We are lucky enough to have winter turnout at our yard BUT my horse has been on box rest for medical reasons for two months now and, not only is the workload killing me now that Christmas is over but, although he has been an angel, I know he is fed up. For that reason, I am turning out into a pen measuring about 20ft by 20ft each morning, so not big enough for him to get any speed up, either for an hour or for the whole morning if practical. The grass has disappeared under the mud and, while he can see the others, he is not within touching distance of them. This has been our next step on from in-hand grazing, which has kept him happy.

However, even this little amount of turnout is cheering him up and I think he is already moving better. I couldn't do it today as the tiny pen was under water and I didn't want to risk him slipping about and he was noticeably unsettled at lunchtime when I went to skip out and check he was ok for haylage and water.

I could not contemplate a future where he would not have a decent amount of turnout. If I was the OP and there was really nowhere that could offer it, the least I would be willing to accept would be a useable school but that also has drawbacks, both in terms of my busy working life and the fact that I believe interaction with other horses is paramount for my horse.

I am a firm believer that horses need to be horses, which is probably why I am struggling with the whole box rest situation and really having to control my urges to rush getting him back out. With the OP's situation, I would be wanting to change things NOW, whatever it took.

 

[Winters100]

I am a firm believer that horses need to be horses, which is probably why I am struggling with the whole box rest situation and really having to control my urges to rush getting him back out. With the OP's situation, I would be wanting to change things NOW, whatever it took.

Totally agree, and I hope that your horse is soon healthy and back in the paddock again. I also have one who is not allowed to the paddock at the moment. She has recovered from a hoof infection but the vet doesn't want her out in the mud just now. Bit easier than with yours as she does not need box rest specifically, just needs to avoid the mud. I go early morning to turn her out in the arena with her best friend. I get there at 5-30 so they have at least 2 hours before anyone wants the arena to ride, and I can use this time to make feeds / do all the other small jobs etc and walk my dogs. Means they have their breakfast a bit late, but it is worth it to see how happy she is to walk around a bit and get some interaction with her friend. Then she goes to the walker in the early afternoon, in the evening I ride her, and if I am able to stay long enough that no one is around I put them to the arena again for an hour. So she has minimum 4 hours out of the box, which while it is not perfect at least keeps her more or less happy. Her usual schedule is to be in the paddock from dawn until dusk, and I simply cannot imagine what her life would be like if I did not go and make sure that she is properly exercised - she would be miserable. We all have to do it out of necessity from time to time when box rest is prescribed, but I am pretty sure that yours never spent 23 hours and 40 minutes shut in even when all you were allowed to do was hand graze.

 

[sakura]

it's depressing to think about, isn't it? I remember being on one yard that suddenly insisted I keep my mare in 24/7. I moved her as soon as I could, (the new yard was majorly out of my way, but I wasn't in a position to be picky!) but in that time between, I turned her out in the school as much as possible and spent so long taking her for in-hand walks to graze - she was like an oversized dog! If nothing else, it went a little way to keeping the swelling in her legs down and helped keep her a tiny bit calmer. I didn't stop feeling terrible about the situation though. It really played on my mind. Now, many years later, she spends 90% of her time out and deeply resents (on a personal level it seems!) being bought in. I know she's very lucky to spend a lot of the winter out with her friends, but I just can't imagine a world where I'd ever be okay about keeping her in - beyond box rest scenarios.

 

[doodle]

Box rest is a different situation. And for what’s its worth I will not put robin on box rest. We tried it when he had a lump removed from elbow. He was in for 7 weeks until he got so violent vet agreed we would put him out. So now he will be managed outside or be pts . that said he is very happy to come in overnight in winter. He will happily stay in the odd day (there has been 2 days this winter) if everyone else does.

 

[windand rain]

It is getting to be a mantra but if I couldnt turn out my ponies for at least 12 hours everyday I would sell the youngsters if a home with turnout was available and shoot the old and dangerous ones. I would even do it myself if the choice was that or 23 hour confinement basically in a toilet and a pretty small one at that. A horse is better off dead than confined for months or even years without reprieve and without exercise and actually so would I be

 

[GSD Woman]

Around here the horses are out in the daytime and stabled at night in the winter and the reverse in the summer. That may seem like a lot of stable time to some but most worked several days a week and they get feed and hay in the stalls.

 

[Winters100]

Around here the horses are out in the daytime and stabled at night in the winter and the reverse in the summer. That may seem like a lot of stable time to some but most worked several days a week and they get feed and hay in the stalls.

I do the same. Where I am is colder in winter and hotter in summer than the UK. Most of the time they are out dawn to dusk, but at the moment this is only around 7 am to 3.30 pm, so we need to do a fair bit to make sure that they get enough movement to cope with such a long time in the box. In the hottest part of summer I reverse things and bring them inside about 11am until 4/5pm to escape the worst of the heat, then they sleep out with a field shelter in case of a storm. I think that the reason that this has touched a nerve with me is that during winter I feel so guilty that they are sometimes only in the paddock for 8 hours out of 24, so I make time to see that every day they are ridden and also go to the walker. If I am short of time I ride one and lead the other from the horse. I know that I am lucky that mine can do this in walk, trot and canter (although the horse being led will rarely canter but will choose to trot super fast instead, not sure why), but if they couldn't I could probably only keep one. I take every 10th day off from riding and on this day they just go to the walker. In the above case OP seems to think that the rest of us just magically 'have' time to do our horses and that she is the only one who works. I also work full time, actually quite long hours, as do most other liveries at my stable, so I know that sometimes when the alarm clock goes off at 4-45am I am exhausted and would happily sleep until 8, but we can't because when we bought horses we signed up to putting their welfare first.

 

[ycbm]

I am lucky that mine are now rarely in a box for more than an hour a day but before I was able to keep them in a barn the rest of the time, they have always seemed to keep very well as long as they got about six hours out and ad lib forage when in, ridden 1-1.5 hours on four or five days a week.

I'm not convinced that longer turnout than 25% of the day is essential for a horse ridden on a regular basis.

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[Winters100]

I'm not convinced that longer turnout than 25% of the day is essential for a horse ridden on a regular basis.

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I agree, more is not essential, especially if they are in work, but I really see how mine are calmer and happier the more time they spend in natural conditions. Sometimes natural conditions look terrible - wet, muddy horses, rugs that get trashed on a regular basis, wet muddy owners...... I totally get that life is not perfect, and that sometimes we have to make the best of things, but at the very least people should not leave their horses standing in the box for almost 24 hours a day because they are too lazy to get up a couple of hours earlier!

 

[GSD Woman]

I understand that energy may be an issue for the OP since she is in recovery for cancer. However, that doesn't excuse her refusal to do anything to improve the lot of her horses.

 

[Tardebigge]

I just want to counter the op's assertion several pages ago that her horses are happy and healthy. Well, two have cushing's, so they are not healthy, and the other one appears to have behavioural problems. A horse like the third one mentioned would be best managed by being turned out 24/7, on hay only, and having plenty of exercise - because I am willing to bet that a lot of the behavioural problems are due to being cooped up all winter with grossy insufficient exercise and enrichment. You could also end up with, sooner or later, your third horse getting lami.
I used to work and look after my horse(s), and the only answer in winter was to get up very early and go later to bed, totally exhausted, (and consequently spend far less time in bed). It's hard work, yes, but caring for 3 stabled horses properly is going to take more than a couple of hours a day.

 

[RHM]

I have been in a somewhat similar situation re weight loss so I can share a few things that I did with some success but as a bit of a background, my pony was overweight and got a EMS diagnosis which resulted in the vet asking that he was kept of grass.

What worked for mine was:
-obviously exercise, (he wasn’t able to be ridden much due to knacked suspensorys) so I took up jogging with him. Much to the village amusement! Took him for a 5-6mile run every morning, then chucked him out on a tiny patch for 30 mins while i did his jobs. Then in the evening he would be hand grazed for 10mins and then some in hand work in the arena. There are actually lots of really good exercises that you can do in hand particularly with poles if you give it a google!
-all hay was soaked and he was fed 1-1.5% of his body weight
-he had a full bucket of top chop straw with a few tiny bits of carrots chopped into it
-hay balls and treat balls go down very well!

I will be quite frank though, it was shattering and despite all of my effort he was MISERABLE! I had to make a really hard decision and send him away. He is now out 24/7 on rough grazing about 100 miles away and I only see him once a fortnight, while we wait for a space to come up on a track livery locally. It’s very hard not to be selfish when we love our animals because we naturally assume that because we love them no one else could look after them any better or provide a better life for them, but that is delusional.

Re no one being good enough to ride your horses, I regularly have ridden other people’s horses for free, as mine is perpetually lame. I would ask your fellow liveries, even if they can’t commit to a regular day or anything they might be able to do the odd morning or afternoon ride. Also I should say that they don’t have to be the next Carl Hester to offer something to your horse. I have a share horse that I took on when it was out of work, after it had been chilling in a field for a year and the owner was worried bringing it back into work. I am in no way a better rider than her owner (considerably worse tbh) I just happen to like sharp horses and have clicked with this one in particular. If you offer the option of competing on your horses as a sweetener you don’t know who might be interested.

 

[Winters100]

This thread depresses me because someone so ignorant and unwilling to accept that she is keeping her horses in poor conditions will probably carry on, and the horses will continue to suffer.

She said in one post "my horses have more than the basic level of care- simple as."

and later

"They are done.
morning mucked out properly fed and watered. 10 min walk.
evening, mucked out, fed ,watered 10 min walk"

If this is "more than the basic level of care" then what the hell does she think is basic or below? Maybe basic is dirty bed and not even 10 minutes outside of their box and below basic is also no food or water?

She will not accept the advice of so many people that this is cruel and unacceptable.

So moving on from this horrible owner I wonder if we can learn something from this. That the obese horse standing in the stable every time you get to the yard might not just be a case of 'oh, they must take him out at other times'? Maybe we should be more 'nosey' and asking other liveries and the YO in these cases what is going on, do they see the horse taken out at other times, is the horse moved at all, and for how long, or is it a case such as this that an owner thinks that 10 minutes out of the box is somehow sufficient? Maybe we should be more willing to contact yard owners and the authorities in cases where horses are not being given the basic level of care that they deserve. I am not talking about bashing the owner who is having a bad time, who is doing their best but still not getting the 'ideal' (if that exists) amount of food / exercise / vet treatment or whatever else, but horses like this who are clearly neglected.

Something to think about, having heard how cruelly these horses are kept I for sure will be more willing to look around the yard rather than just focus on my own business as I always have done.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Livery yards are not regulated or licensed and unless there are welfare issues the animal welfare bodies will not be interested. Welfare issues are food/water deprivation and inappropriate living conditions (filth and/or injurious). There will be many horses kept in very restrictive situations this winter, mine included but we have to be mindful of what is cruelty leading to suffering and what is not.

The government did discuss the licensing of livery yards but ran out of time and shelved it. I do expect the subject to be raised again when the Animal Welfare Act 2018 is reviewed in 2 years time. Dog Walkers will also be looked at.

 

[JFTDWS]

Welfare issues are food/water deprivation and inappropriate living conditions (filth and/or injurious).

Obesity is a welfare issue, to be fair. It's perfectly reasonable to report an obese horse whose owner is not taking reasonable steps to counteract the issue, and welfare organisations can act if they see fit under those circumstances.

Not that we know whether the OP's horse falls into that category, to be fair. It may not (yet?) be that fat...

 

[Tiddlypom]

And then there’s the Cushing’s horse who is on a bute a day, and who can hardly lift her legs to be picked or for the farrier. Standing in for months on end is not going to be great for that one, either. Post from April 2019.

 

[AdorableAlice]

And then there’s the Cushing’s horse who is on a bute a day, and who can hardly lift her legs to be picked or for the farrier. Standing in for months on end is not going to be great for that one, either. Post from April 2019.

There is an awful lot of things that may not be truthful and or accurate written on forums. The speculation in respect of the OP has become very harsh. The Op is not responding to the criticism and why should she/he. Unless a member knows the poster or the yard where the horses are, surely it is inappropriate to keep criticising and making assumptions. If there is suffering or malpractice you would hope that a third party connected to the yard or another owner would raise their concerns with an appropriate body locally.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If there is suffering or malpractice you would hope that a third party connected to the yard or another owner would raise their concerns with an appropriate body locally.

You would, indeed, hope so.

 

[Winters100]

There is an awful lot of things that may not be truthful and or accurate written on forums. The speculation in respect of the OP has become very harsh. The Op is not responding to the criticism and why should she/he. Unless a member knows the poster or the yard where the horses are, surely it is inappropriate to keep criticising and making assumptions. If there is suffering or malpractice you would hope that a third party connected to the yard or another owner would raise their concerns with an appropriate body locally.

You say "There is an awful lot of things that may not be truthful and or accurate written on forums" I am not sure what you mean by this. Are you thinking that OP may not be truthful, and may in fact be giving her horses much more than the clearly inadequate exercise that she has stated?

"The speculation in respect of the OP has become very harsh" "surely it is inappropriate to keep criticising and making assumptions" What "assumptions" do you refer to? I believe that most criticism has been based upon the facts stated by OP. How is it "harsh" to say that keeping 3 horses in their boxes for 23 hours and 40 minutes a day is cruel? Would you do it? Seriously?

Regarding third parties yes. I agree. We all clearly should be looking out for such abuse - it is an eye opener that it can be from seemingly caring owners. Sad to think that one has to think like this, but given this case it is obviously necessary. I doubt that this thread will stop the abuse of OPs 3 horses, but if it saves others from similar suffering then I suppose there is some purpose.

 

[andytiger]

This is very sad for you and your horse,clipping for weight loss a stabled horse will not work they need to be able to move around who looked after your horses while you had cancer treatment perhaps they could help exercise.

If not then may be a yard move to somewhere they do have turnout or at least a decent school where you can still ride

And by exercising in the school your worried about pulling tendons ect ...laminitis is a terrible condition if I was making the choice I would be more inclined to try using the school I even walking around the boggy bits is better than nothing just to get him walking.

Hope you get it sorted

 

[Leo Walker]

You would, indeed, hope so.

You would but in my experience it doesnt happen.

 

[ycbm]

This is very sad for you and your horse,clipping for weight loss a stabled horse will not work

It will. However the horse is kept, removing its coat will result in the horse using fat to keep warm unless it is being over fed.


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[HashRouge]

It will. However the horse is kept, removing its coat will result in the horse using fat to keep warm unless it is being over fed.


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Can we qualify this? It will work a bit, but is unlikely to be enough to really get the horse to a good weight if it is having as little exercise as described. It is not the best/ healthiest/ fairest (take your pick!) way to encourage weight loss! We are also having a mild winter.

 

[ycbm]

Can we qualify this? It will work a bit, but is unlikely to be enough to really get the horse to a good weight if it is having as little exercise as described. It is not the best/ healthiest/ fairest (take your pick!) way to encourage weight loss! We are also having a mild winter.

I agree, but on the other side of that coin, this horse is not doing enough exercise to use up energy, so it needs very little food. And it's in over 23 hours a day, leaving it with no food for long periods unless it's getting fatter and fatter. And personally, I would much rather see this horse clipped and under rugged than I would see it kept more short of food than absolutely necessary. It's far healthier and fairer imo than restricting food. (Of course exercise would be better by far).

I'd also go back to what I said earlier. It's not about keeping the horse cold. It's about getting the horse to burn its fat staying warm.

We have minus temperatures forecast now. This horse's life could potentially be improved, in terms of allowing it more food to stave off boredom, if it is clipped and left under rugged. Provided of course that someone is checking that the horse is not cold, but using its fat to keep itself warm.
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[NinjaPony]

It's easy to pass judgement, but the idea of fully clipping a horse and leaving it trapped in a stable to shiver 23 hours a day fills me with horror. IMO there is a big difference between not clipping and leaving them unrugged to help with weight loss, or even a small bib/trace clip than a full clip. At least when they are turned out, they can move around if they get cold...

This thread has been a real eye opener...

I am constantly fighting to keep weight off my retired welsh a, so I do understand that it is difficult when they are not ridden, but I just feel bad for the poor horse, being hungry, cold and bored for weeks on end...Can't help but echo others and say that this management style really isn't in the horses best interest whatsoever. Horse should be out on poor grazing, only lightly rugged but not shivering, and coming in to thoroughly soaked hay. I appreciate OP is having problems, but I could not allow my horses to live like that in the long term. We've all had to restrict turnout to an extent due to the weather, in fact mine will have to stay in tomorrow bar an hour whilst I muck out because my field is underwater. But not as a long term management style.