Cloned horses...What do you think?

I am very open minded on this subject and interested to hear peoples views.

I can see how it may be useful in breeding, i.e. comp horses that were gelded can now be bred from.

Also interesting to see how much of performance is gene related.

Just having lots of clones on the circuit would be boring :)
 
Although its amazing what science can do I don't totally like it.

Although it nurture not just nature that defines a horse so the younger version has no guaranteed success.

I think it takes away the excitement.

Imagine having a class competing against each other full of the same cloned horse!
 
No . . . just no. We don't fully know what underlying health problems cloning brings with it . . . and why would we want to be re-producing the same animals over and over. Selective breeding is what brings improvement and, in some cases downright freaks (in a good way - think Frankel and Black Caviar) and huge variety.

Lastly, we come to what would happen if we cloned indiscriminately. As much as I love my boy and never, ever want to let him go . . . and as lovely as it might be to clone him and keep him going forever, his conformation is rubbish . . . not only that but he was bred from something which passed that rubbish conformation on.

I think we'd end up with far bigger problems than benefits if we started cloning.

P
 
I think, that just because a horse is a clone of the other one does not mean it will be that horse. Yes it will have the talent, the looks etc but the experiences in life it has will form its character and personality, horses are the way they are because of the experiences they've had throughtout their life just like humans. For example, my friends and i love her oldie, she is amazing. But the experiences in her life made her the way she is so i think that we'd expect too much and be dissapointed that although the clone looks the same and has the same talents it is not the same horse, only genetically, but it won't behave the same, have the same cheeky habits etc. Same as with my dog, i love her so much, but given the opportunity i would not clone her, i can't recreate the same situations my current dog has had so i would be dissapointed with the clone as it would not be the same.
I think cloning may have some advantages, i think it'll be great once they work out how to clone specific organs so the person recieves a clone of thier own organ, much better for the person and more transplants can be done. But to clone whole people and animals, i don't see the advantage of this. But everyone has their own opinion :)
 
blucanoo1990 said:
Imagine having a class competing against each other full of the same cloned horse!
Click to expand...
Now that would be a true olympic sport.
Give the top 30 SJ competitors the same horse as an unbacked 4yo, 4 yrs prior to the olympics and see who can produce the best.
Would be fascinating to see the different results from the varied training methods and styles
 
PaddyMonty said:
Now that would be a true olympic sport.
Give the top 30 SJ competitors the same horse as an unbacked 4yo, 4 yrs prior to the olympics and see who can produce the best.
Would be fascinating to see the different results from the varied training methods and styles
Click to expand...

This is an idea I have had as well. :D
 
Interesting indeed! I thought clones aged faster though as in the case of dolly the sheep? I don't really see a need for it and wouldn't like it to become commonplace thereby devaluing good old fashioned breeding and the luck of the draw, but I would be interested to see how clones get on competing compared to their gene donors, from a nature vs nurture point of view...
 
I think it could work to a point, but must remember that it is impossible- even for a clone to be genetically identical to another horse, mutations occur and genes are triggered by the environment :)
 
I think with how much this costs we wont be over run by clones.

I am interested as said before into seeing how much of a role genetics has as a performance.

As for the problems, we dont know unless we try - thats science

We have a window of opportunity to learn a lot from this
 
As far as I know the great Gem Twist was cloned many years ago, I don't see GT 2 setting the world alight in the show jumping ring or is he? Wasn't Hugo Simon's ET FRH done aswell? If they were successfully cloned and are nowhere near as good as the original why bother?
 
I don't think either that because we can is a good enough reason to do it. We already know a fair bit about traits that are genetic, but imo the truly top horses have all been freaks in the nicest possible way. Even at lower levels its evident cloning wouldn't work. My 23yr old wouldn't produce a clone that was a schoolmistress & easy to do. Just a pony with her talent & temperament & a good chance of being the same in future, which breeding can already do. The likes of milton are hard to reproduce because its more complex than just genetics.
 
PaddyMonty said:
Now that would be a true olympic sport.
Give the top 30 SJ competitors the same horse as an unbacked 4yo, 4 yrs prior to the olympics and see who can produce the best.
Would be fascinating to see the different results from the varied training methods and styles
Click to expand...

I would love to see that. Would be amazing.
 
TBB said:
As far as I know the great Gem Twist was cloned many years ago, I don't see GT 2 setting the world alight in the show jumping ring or is he? Wasn't Hugo Simon's ET FRH done aswell? If they were successfully cloned and are nowhere near as good as the original why bother?
Click to expand...

Currently cloned horses are not allowed to compete, they are to be used at stud only, and certain stud books won't accept progeny anyway.

mandwhy - Dolly actually died from a form of lung cancer which is not uncommon in sheep. The premature ageing theory came about as it was suspected that she was suffering from arthritis, but as the cell she was cloned from was not a 'young' cell (mammary cell, hence the name 'Dolly' Parton :rolleyes:) as evidenced by the shortened telomeres (bits of extra genetic material on the ends of chromosomes which are shortened each time the cell divides) her genetic material was actually already aged 6 when she was born. The fact that she was kept indoors due to the foot and mouth outbreak, and exercised on a treadmill may also have led to the arthritis.

PPP - a clone also won't necessarily look like the original as it is believed that markings can be affected by the position of the foetus in the womb (Not 100% sure this is the case for horses, but I seem to remember it is) and I don't think it is a leap of faith to assume that the ET recipient mare will also have some effect on foal size/confo. As others have said, I agree that talent is also due more to training and the individual's temperament.

Think how different identical twins can be in personality, and as well as sharing 100% the same DNA, they share the exact same environment in the womb, and are generally raised in a very similar manner :)
 
TBB said:
As far as I know the great Gem Twist was cloned many years ago, I don't see GT 2 setting the world alight in the show jumping ring or is he? Wasn't Hugo Simon's ET FRH done aswell? If they were successfully cloned and are nowhere near as good as the original why bother?
Click to expand...

You are correct they were, I have no idea how old they would be so not sure if they are on the circuit yet or not
 
PingPongPony said:
I think, that just because a horse is a clone of the other one does not mean it will be that horse. Yes it will have the talent, the looks etc but the experiences in life it has will form its character and personality, horses are the way they are because of the experiences they've had throughtout their life just like humans. For example, my friends and i love her oldie, she is amazing. But the experiences in her life made her the way she is so i think that we'd expect too much and be dissapointed that although the clone looks the same and has the same talents it is not the same horse, only genetically, but it won't behave the same, have the same cheeky habits etc. Same as with my dog, i love her so much, but given the opportunity i would not clone her, i can't recreate the same situations my current dog has had so i would be dissapointed with the clone as it would not be the same.
I think cloning may have some advantages, i think it'll be great once they work out how to clone specific organs so the person recieves a clone of thier own organ, much better for the person and more transplants can be done. But to clone whole people and animals, i don't see the advantage of this. But everyone has their own opinion :)
Click to expand...

I agree some horses are what they are because of experiences or incidents that have happened in their lifetime - i.e you never know a horse may have jumped out of a paddock and clipped a leg on a fence and from then on always jumped really high in an effort not to be injured again - and therefore making it a great jumper - whether or not it has great genes it would be irrelevant and you couldn't re-create that moment or may not have even been aware - therefore cloning a horse like that would not necessarily make it as good as the first. Im not totally against cloning as it is nice to think that some bloodlines are obtainable that were previously lost however if something is gelded for example it may be that it wasn't suitable to breed from in the first place for different reasons i.e temprement/faults etc so i think you have to be doing it for the right reasons for the right outcome if you see my point.
 
rhino said:
Currently cloned horses are not allowed to compete, they are to be used at stud only, and certain stud books won't accept progeny anyway.

mandwhy - Dolly actually died from a form of lung cancer which is not uncommon in sheep. The premature ageing theory came about as it was suspected that she was suffering from arthritis, but as the cell she was cloned from was not a 'young' cell (mammary cell, hence the name 'Dolly' Parton :rolleyes:) as evidenced by the shortened telomeres (bits of extra genetic material on the ends of chromosomes which are shortened each time the cell divides) her genetic material was actually already aged 6 when she was born. The fact that she was kept indoors due to the foot and mouth outbreak, and exercised on a treadmill may also have led to the arthritis.

PPP - a clone also won't necessarily look like the original as it is believed that markings can be affected by the position of the foetus in the womb (Not 100% sure this is the case for horses, but I seem to remember it is) and I don't think it is a leap of faith to assume that the ET recipient mare will also have some effect on foal size/confo. As others have said, I agree that talent is also due more to training and the individual's temperament.

Think how different identical twins can be in personality, and as well as sharing 100% the same DNA, they share the exact same environment in the womb, and are generally raised in a very similar manner :)
Click to expand...

The FEI recently has let cloned horses compete! Very very recently though. Yes only two stud books allows clones.
 
Here are 5 clones and the 'original'

Smart%20Little%20Lena%20Clones.jpg


Similar, not identical.
 
Rhino, that's really interesting. Do you know the mechanism behind the white markings? I'll admit, my developmental biology is not what it should be!
 
jesstickle said:
Rhino, that's really interesting. Do you know the mechanism behind the white markings? I'll admit, my developmental biology is not what it should be!
Click to expand...

No, and I don't think anyone does, and I think it is so multifactorial that it will be difficult to find out anyway. The belief is that it is something to do with contact with the amniotic fluid, acting on the predetermined genetics (i.e. some breeds don't have white markings at all).

It's like how fingerprints develop in babies - no-one really quite understands why they are unique, but they are fully present at 6 months gestation :D
 
Adolfo Cambiaso, the world's best polo player, has been cloning polo ponies for some years now.

He has clones of some of his best - Small Person, Dolfina Cuarterera, Aiken Cura etc, and a friend of mine in Argentina has one of his 'clones' - a very nice little pony it is too!

I think that despite 'cloning' , its still a case of nature V nuture, I think no matter if they are a carbon copy, there is so much more to add in to see how they develop and progress.

This is a very interesting video on YouTube about Cambiaso's breeding programme...it's in spanish but you can still get the gist of it ( and I love the last clip of the identikit youngsters in the field..!)

http://youtu.be/FfvtUeamSDA
 
Last edited:
Interesting stuff. Wouldn't imagine there's much funding out there to look into it so we'll probably be in the dark for a good while yet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top