Clydesdale - Saving the great horse

There's a market for draft crosses. I own one. But you can't have draft crosses without full drafts. Just out-crossing them to TBs or WBs or whatever won't preserve the breed. But maybe it will give the breeders enough income to continue breeding the full drafts as well as the crosses? You can't get out of bed without stepping on a draft cross in the US, which suggests that breeders are already doing this and have been for some time. In part, it's because cobs and Irish drafts are considered rare, special breeds over there and cost a gazillion dollars, so draft crosses have become very popular because people want tractable, athletic (some are; some not at all) ammy-friendly horses with lots of bone.
 
Cragrat said:
I had a 15/16th TB, 1/16th Clydesdale mare, bred in Aberdeenshire. She was a cracking horse - hunting/pony club/eventing etc. I bred her to a TB, and got another fantastic mare, which I bred back to a TB again. I now have a very nice almost TB ( 1/64th Clydesdale?) with a coat like a yak in the winter, and hocks straighter than either of maternal parents, or his dad :( But he's still a very useful sort, who moves like a dream and jumps really well.

I would have another part bred Clydesdale a heart beat!
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I always said to my OH that if I was in a position to start a baby from scratch I’d love a clyde x tb.

but you need the clydies to do that, sad. I’m watching now
 
If Shires and Clydes were scsled back down to the size they were originally bred to be then there would be just as much of a market for them as there is for a big cob. I don't have much experience of Shires but Clydesdales are literally the most amazing breed ever. They are so gentle and willing, I adore them. Unfortunately they fo seem to be bred to be too tall, close behind and longer in the back than they started out :(
 
Draft crosses quickly become a thing in themselves without needing their purebred relatives. Afterall, that's how warmbloods started (the only Percherons I have ever known irl were the broodmares that were knocking around to when I was young to breed warmbloods). Shire crosses for eventing have also been around forever, and then there's the Irish Sports Horse....

There are breeds of draft that are more useful than others. Shire and Clydesdale unfortunately are towards the less useful end of the spectrum in their purebred forms. Suffolk punch I never understand why they are not more popular as leisure hacks. I think it is possibly because there are so few of them that people just don't think of them. They are every bit as useful as a riding horse as the many badly put together cobs knocking around.
 
I love the Suffolk's and would love one but the sheer size of them puts me off! The haybill and ability to move them anywhere is intimidating. Plus I always worry about long term health, and I like dressage which I don't think would be fair on their joints. Saying that Irish draughts can be massive and they do well.
 
Clydes make amazing riding horses they are hardy, go where others cant, gentle and kind. There is a massive market for them and they go for a lot of money. Having had one who was 16hh and a take anywhere do anything kind of boy they really are my favourite breed.
 
mariew said:
I love the Suffolk's and would love one but the sheer size of them puts me off! The haybill and ability to move them anywhere is intimidating. Plus I always worry about long term health, and I like dressage which I don't think would be fair on their joints. Saying that Irish draughts can be massive and they do well.
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They are big horses but not especially tall in general, so fit in normal transport etc. They are also very good doers (as are clydes) and I don't think take any more feeding that most other horses, probably less than most thoroughbreds
 
I think much could be done to help the suffolks because they are not too tall .
crossed to lighter mares they could produce good fun riding horses .
Not everyone wants or needs the athletic ability of a Sport horse and more stock on the ground would help preserve the breed and give it a use .
Suffolks make great logging animals and as we more into an area of reforesting and rewinding their may well be more not less use for these types of horse .
The ID would not have survived without crossing to to TB’s to produce sport horses .
 
Goldenstar said:
Where can a Clydesdale go where one of my ID hunters can’t ?
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Sorry I meant most breeds on my yard which were a varied mix, they wouldnt go to the supermarket carpark as they had a fear of trolleys. ? What breeding is your Irish draught I use to breed them many years ago. Love them.
 
Kaylum said:
Sorry I meant most breeds on my yard which were a varied mix, they wouldnt go to the supermarket carpark as they had a fear of trolleys. ? What breeding is your Irish draught I use to breed them many years ago. Love them.
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Fatty is by Blackthorn I can’t remember the dam sire .
Sky is a Luke Skywalker dam sire Carrabawn View
H is by Gortlea ruler out of a Windgap Blue mare .
 
Watched it this evening, Pollock Park is near us I would love it if the project went ahead. Beautifully filmed as well and gorgeous horses. Was very relieved when the fully stood up my daughter and I were holding our breaths at that point.
 
I was a little baffled when they were saying there are no Clydesdales in Pollok Park. Because there used to be Clydesdales in Pollok Park. I've patted one on the nose only a couple years ago. I assume they are still there?
 
i was baffled as to why anyone would go to so much trouble, financial and otherwise... and then let the mare foal alone and have the foal almost suffocate in the bag.
 
They said they'd been watching her for a while and then gone to bed. I guess some people can't stay awake 24/7 watching a mare (I could...being an insomniac has some advantages....OH would have no chance).

I was surprised the foal fired out of the mare like a projectile sh1te, while she was standing, and hit the deck with some force. Is that weird? Don't mares usually lay on their sides to foal? All the ones I've seen were on their sides, but I can count my foal-watching experiences on well under one hand.
 
Clydesdale x's are in massive demand here, everyone seems to want one, either for hunting or lower level competition. On saying that there are some very smart ones doing extremely well at County level Show and Working hunter too. The majority have good temperaments and stay sound. The larger ones make great horses for men. The majority of large back country stations use either full clydesdales or 3/4 breds for mustering, as they are hardy, sure footed and won't get washed away in some of the river crossings. Also they tend to put up with shepherds who have limited horse experience riding them. I think though that quite a few stallions have come in from the USA as it is probably cheaper than transporting from the UK.

In the winter I bought one she is Clydesdale/crossbreed x from a video, she came from a farm up north, I just wanted a happy hacker project to run alongside my warmblood and knew if I put some work in could easily sell her on
for a profit due to her type. She is absolutely amazing and has surpassed expectations in everyway, and is a keeper, apart from being a a couple of inches shorter than I would like. I have a waiting list if I ever want to sell her. Best of all she doesn't have the cow hocks and is very trainable, she goes nicely off the leg now and can work in an outline.
Meet Marvellous Mabel, taking her on a competative trail ride tomorrow. The other horse in the photo is also a clydesdale x and one of the best hunters around.
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This thread has perfectly illustrated the issue, hasn't it? Everyone's posting about how great draft crosses are, which they are. And those are the types of horses lots of people want (including me). But if you want to preserve the Shire or Clydesdale as a breed, you still need a viable population of purebred animals, with enough individuals to maintain genetic diversity.
 
Caol Ila said:
This thread has perfectly illustrated the issue, hasn't it? Everyone's posting about how great draft crosses are, which they are. And those are the types of horses lots of people want (including me). But if you want to preserve the Shire or Clydesdale as a breed, you still need a viable population of purebred animals, with enough individuals to maintain genetic diversity.
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Exactly in Ireland they almost got into bother with the ID , when then the Irish developed the passion for using warmblood mares ,and stallions (but it was the mares that was the issue ) because that’s where the market for very expensive stock took them .
They fell a bit out of love with the traditional type of NH Tb they crossed the mares to as well for a while .
Alot of ID a and crossed TB / ID mares got parted with however being Irish they where quick enough to see the mistake and now the traditional ID cross something they market separately .
The Irish breeders where very fast to see the trap they where walking into and protected the ID and no other country has been anywhere as successful they have in doing this .
They had a head start because the ID has been a true dual purpose breed for long time .When I was a child lots of farmers still had a heavy mare in the field that they sent to the local TB stallion and there where many many heavy type traditional Tb plus all sorts about .
I have an ID crossed Clydesdale atm Blue the cob although I am not convinced there’s not some section D in there as well .
There’s no doubt he’s a nice horse and you could sell him one like him every week but few people breed these type of horses commercially any more in the UK but there would be a demand for them but would people pay a commercial rate for them I don’t know .
 
Mmmm i dunno. If id invested as much as they had I might have either done shifts to stay up, slept out in the stables, used a foaling alarm or put the mare on foaling livery eek
 
It is rare breed mares that need to be protected and allowed to breed. Many are used as ridden horses exclusively which proves a strain on bloodlines as their genes are not used. Stallions over quality mares make better crosses anyway. If a rare breed mare has foals it should have at least 1 purebred preferably 1 filly sex selected sperm might be a way forward but this science would have to be approved by the breed societies. Some of which can be very backward thinking
 
I just spent a wonderful 74 minutes watching this, what a fabulous programme. Very impressed with the lady's dedication and my heart was in my mouth when Jessie foaled Snowy, I've never seen a foal birth before.
 
Goldenstar said:
Exactly in Ireland they almost got into bother with the ID , when then the Irish developed the passion for using warmblood mares ,and stallions (but it was the mares that was the issue ) because that’s where the market for very expensive stock took them .
They fell a bit out of love with the traditional type of NH Tb they crossed the mares to as well for a while .
Alot of ID a and crossed TB / ID mares got parted with however being Irish they where quick enough to see the mistake and now the traditional ID cross something they market separately .
The Irish breeders where very fast to see the trap they where walking into and protected the ID and no other country has been anywhere as successful they have in doing this .
They had a head start because the ID has been a true dual purpose breed for long time .When I was a child lots of farmers still had a heavy mare in the field that they sent to the local TB stallion and there where many many heavy type traditional Tb plus all sorts about .
I have an ID crossed Clydesdale atm Blue the cob although I am not convinced there’s not some section D in there as well .
There’s no doubt he’s a nice horse and you could sell him one like him every week but few people breed these type of horses commercially any more in the UK but there would be a demand for them but would people pay a commercial rate for them I don’t know .
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I was trying and failing to find the link, but I came across a thing suggesting that one of the issues facing the North American Shire is that while they cross them to lighter horses and those sell like hotcakes, there are not enough purebreds being bred or sold. They are afraid of diluting the breed and losing the Shire horse as we know it. While my horse is half-Shire and lovely indeed, she is nothing like a full Shire.

Fastasflames said:
Mmmm i dunno. If id invested as much as they had I might have either done shifts to stay up, slept out in the stables, used a foaling alarm or put the mare on foaling livery eek
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Yeah, I've never foaled so haven't thought about it that hard, but that makes sense. I think I would be in a sleeping bag in front of the stable.

windand rain said:
It is rare breed mares that need to be protected and allowed to breed. Many are used as ridden horses exclusively which proves a strain on bloodlines as their genes are not used. Stallions over quality mares make better crosses anyway. If a rare breed mare has foals it should have at least 1 purebred preferably 1 filly sex selected sperm might be a way forward but this science would have to be approved by the breed societies. Some of which can be very backward thinking
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This is something I've thought about with regards to my next horse. I really want a Highland mare, but I would feel bad owning a really nice rare breed mare and not putting something back into the gene pool. I guess it's an excuse to have a foal, isn't it?
 
I have two highland mares one old one 25 now who only had one foal should have given her the chance to have more as she has rare none linebred parentage. The young one I might send on breeding loan as she is a stonking great lump at rising 3 but is a bit young and I am too old and broken and skint to do it again. Time yet to decide
 
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