Co- owning a puppy... (with pics!!)

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emmae

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Can anyone shed some light on this??

I have fallen in love with a beautiful little male dalmatian pup (just waiting to see if he passes his BAER hearing tests, but we're quietly confident) Seen him a few times and he is just perfect!!

The breeding is fantastic, and he really is a very good puppy... the co-owner of the bitch (who lives in Germany) came over and bought her friend who judges dalmatians, they both really liked him, and she asked us about whether we would be happy with a co-ownership contract with regards to breeding, that he would be completely our dog, but that they would choose whether or not a bitch is suitable for him!! which i was extremely happy with as I'm no dalmatian expert and wouldn't want to be responsible for any litters that weren't up to scratch!

i am just wondering if this is common practice, or not??

And if i will really have 'control' over the dog in every other way??

as i say, i was really happy until i googled "co owning puppies" and it has rather confused me!

anyway here are some pics of Webber!!

WebberH1.jpg


WebberL.jpg
 
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Hmmmm. Wouldnt go for it myself, but then I am a natural born cynic :rolleyes: They basically want the stud fee rights without the cost of keeping the dog - well, if he is THAT good, why dont they keep him and show him?

Sorry to be negative, I just know how SOME (not all) show people work :o
 
They already have one stud dog at home who doesn't get on with other entire dogs!!

Got to be honest I'm not too fussed about stud fees or the likes, all I wanted was a nice dog to keep me company at the yard, he just happens to be really nice!! Will have to see a contract obviously first but I'm just confused haha
 
I kinda agree with Carey, if he's being sold as a pet, let him be a pet.

We had a bitch on breeding terms and the breeder put her to a nutcase (he was a champion but she was already high drive and the pups were headcases so not something we really wanted our name associated with) some people do it for years with no problems, others can fall out big style, go in with your eyes wide open!
 
If you like him and the contract suits, but have it in there that if for any reason you feel his welfare either behaviourally or physically is compromised by him having balls, that you can whip them off.
Will you pay a reduced price due to this? Did youw ant an un neutered male dog? Are you prepared to take him to whatever bitch they deem suitable?
 
I've never heard of doing this before but then I've never had anything to do with dog showing either! I would be concerned about things like what happens if he turns into an aggressive / wandering dog and needs castrating for behavioural reasons, would the co-owner prevent it knowing that it's you that has to live with the difficulties and her that gets all the benefits etc. i would presume that castration on medical grounds would not be an issue. I would also ask about frequency of stud activities and if you are expected to take the dog all over the country to meet bitches or if you have to be prepared for a bitch invasion at your home (I've never bred a dog so I don't know the way these things usually work :confused: ) On balance I'd probably stay well clear but if you go in with your eyes wide open and aware of the risks then it may work out well
 
Aaaw he's so cute :D

I wouldn't be too keen either to be honest, but mostly because I would want him neutered if he was going to be a companion to prevent any possible future worries/problems. I wouldn't be over the moon about the idea of essentially looking after a stud dog for the sake of somebody else's breeding plans. And paying them for the pleasure no less! :) Especially if he decided he was going to be the type that goes AWOL after bitches in heat etc. :rolleyes:

ETS - essentially what everyone else said (and said better :P) aaah the trials of trying to post betwixt glasses of wine :)
 
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I really respect the breeder, and they don't seem to be over breeding at all... one litter every few years!! just high quality... all the dogs and bitches they use seem to be picked for temp as well as show quality, so i'm comfortable with that! With regards to traveling- i have to be honest it wasn't something i had thought about so will have to speak to the breeder with regards to that!

Tbh we hadn't really thought about what we wanted but saw Webber and then had a long think about having a dog/keeping him entire, and decided that there would be no problem in keeping him entire (assuming that it doesn't cause him any behavioral issues) we would still be paying full wack for him too!! I'm not too worried about the breeding as long as we're not traveling everywhere every possible chance- which i can't see happening as from what the breeders have been saying they take the bitches to the dogs? which would possibly suit me as the breeder of Webber is only 45mins drive from here, so maybe we could say all matings are to be done at hers?? does that just sound ridiculous?

i just don't want them for any reason to be able to take him back after a certain time or for anything??
 
Ive just become the co-owner of a lovely dog. His owner (my boss) wanted a home for him as he didnt get on with her other entire dog. He's basically mine but she can use him for breeding/showing when and if she wants.
Im quite happy with the arrangement and so is my boss as i take him to work so she still gets to see him. Im quite happy with him being entire as he is a very well behaved and calm dog. So far its working out well.:)
 
CaveCanem said:
See, all of the things mentioned here, is why I will never have a dog in partnership!!!!
Sorry, but I would just buy him outright if that is possible.
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Ditto this CC :o The dogs my mum has had in partnership (as a prolific dog exhibitor/judge) have been few and far between, they have always been fine but she is VERY careful about who she goes into partnership with? This still sounds a recipe for being ripped off I fear :(
 
I'm not sure what is in it for you?

I'd imagine you'd end up feeling pressured to keep him entire when it might not be the right thing for you or the dog. You are paying the full price for the dog and for all the upkeep

If the dog gets used for stud, THEY get all the money?

What is in it for you?

Harley's breeder put an endorsement on him saying he and all possible mates (although there aren't going to be any!) had to be fully health checked/ hip scored etc before he could be used for stud (which he's not)

His Dad's owner said that if I ever wanted to go down that route she would advise me on the bitches. All hypothetical, because I'd never want him used as a stud dog. But a good breeder SHOULD be able to give you this support without ownership I would have said.
 
CaveCanem said:
I kinda agree with Carey, if he's being sold as a pet, let him be a pet.
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Agree. Also do you really want a stud dog? The slightest whiff of a bitch in heat & he becomes a nervous wreck, won't eat, won't settle, piddling up your furniture etc. He does look a smashing boy but have those balls off & let him be your pet & no-one elses!:)
 
I have placed bitches on breeding terms in the past, usually to people I knew, at a reduced price. I then chose the stud dog to use and had maybe a couple of puppies out of litter, the bitch was then transferred fully to them. I have also had a couple of bitches in co ownership, but just because I wanted to keep my name on them, no other terms. I do think the breeders are being a bit cheeky if they are charging full price but still want stud fees from him. If you decide to go ahead I would perhaps set a limit of so many bitches and then he be transferred fully to your name.
 
Odd. I'm afraid I wouldn't agree to that arrangement. My dogs are mine and I decide where they go, who they meet etc. I certainly wouldn't want him used for breeding in case he decided that every bitch he meets is for jumping on.
 
blazingsaddles said:
Agree. Also do you really want a stud dog? The slightest whiff of a bitch in heat & he becomes a nervous wreck, won't eat, won't settle, piddling up your furniture etc. He does look a smashing boy but have those balls off & let him be your pet & no-one elses!:)
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You mean if he has the habit of being used as a stud dog? Just wondering cos my tow entire dogs were never a pick of bother if they met a bitch in season (stupid owners-I'm sure you shouldn't take a bitch in heat out and about!)

MurphysMinder said:
I have placed bitches on breeding terms in the past, usually to people I knew, at a reduced price. I then chose the stud dog to use and had maybe a couple of puppies out of litter, the bitch was then transferred fully to them. I have also had a couple of bitches in co ownership, but just because I wanted to keep my name on them, no other terms. I do think the breeders are being a bit cheeky if they are charging full price but still want stud fees from him. If you decide to go ahead I would perhaps set a limit of so many bitches and then he be transferred fully to your name.
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This seems like a good scenario if you go ahead although I'd be tempted to have him cut after his duties were over.
 
uh cinammon toast-if you can take your entire dog out(male) then there is absoloutely no reason why other owners can't take their entire dog (female) out all year round.
After all..yours is potentially fertile all the time..
 
blazingsaddles said:
Agree. Also do you really want a stud dog? The slightest whiff of a bitch in heat & he becomes a nervous wreck, won't eat, won't settle, piddling up your furniture etc. He does look a smashing boy but have those balls off & let him be your pet & no-one elses!:)
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This isnt always the case, my co-owned dog is entire and has encountered a bitch in heat at my work (i work in a grooming salon) and he was fine. didnt display any of the behaviours mentioned above.
Also, i forgot to mention that i didnt pay anything for my boy, he was given to me.:)
 
Some studs can be completely un-studdy, others can see it as their role in life and get quite obsessive and persistent about it.

(Recalls a fab tale about a breeder who went all the way to Germany with his bitch, when it was a big deal to do so, got there, stud - who was very heavily used - wasn't interested and owner shrugged shoulders and said 'He says no today!')

I took my entire bitches out all the time too?!
 
SusieT said:
uh cinammon toast-if you can take your entire dog out(male) then there is absoloutely no reason why other owners can't take their entire dog (female) out all year round.
After all..yours is potentially fertile all the time..
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True, but my dogs would not get pregnant! I think it's a bit silly to allow a bitch in season to run round the woods when the owner can't know if the dogs she will therefore encounter are entire or not. I'm not saying bitches should never be allowed out! Must confess that my boys would not know what to do, either, one of the big reasons why we never bred from Brig, who is a very good example of the breed, IMO.
IMAG0089-1.jpg


My YO wouldn't let us ride mares in season when the stallions were around-I know they're a bit bigger and more dangerous, but same idea, surely?
 
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I would not let an entire bitch in season out of my sight, granted!

A bloke showed one earlier this year, which I thought was out of order, plus there was snow on the ground, you can imagine the mess, ewwwwwwww!!!!
For our trials, it is courtesy not to compete with a bitch in season but if you do, you will be drawn last once all the other animals have already been on the field so as not to put the others off.
 
I previously owned an ex-stud dog (ex - because he hated the other entire males the breeder kept) He was a dirty bugger at times & hated other males & refused to eat when he caught a whiff of a bitch in season.

Why should a bitch in season not be walked on a lead?
 
CaveCanem said:
I would not let an entire bitch in season out of my sight, granted!
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Exactly what I meant.

blazingsaddles said:
Why should a bitch in season not be walked on a lead?
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Why not indeed? Nowhere did I say bitches in season should be kept indoors as though seasons are purdah.

The one I was thinking of belonged to a lad who had not socialised his 'pack' of 3 entire dogs, added a bitch to his lovely pack :rolleyes: and let her rip round the woods whilst in season and not restrained in any way. Mental. Kind of a shame that they were all so horrible cos they were beautiful looking Springers-hugely tall compared to mine and forever getting mine on the ground to try to kill them. None of them were ever on a lead.:mad:
 
"You mean if he has the habit of being used as a stud dog? Just wondering cos my tow entire dogs were never a pick of bother if they met a bitch in season (stupid owners-I'm sure you shouldn't take a bitch in heat out and about!)"quote.


This was your last comment I read before I posted, not clarifying on or off lead. I just took 'out & about' as a being taken for a walk. My mistake, clearly.
 
blazingsaddles said:
"You mean if he has the habit of being used as a stud dog? Just wondering cos my tow entire dogs were never a pick of bother if they met a bitch in season (stupid owners-I'm sure you shouldn't take a bitch in heat out and about!)"quote.


This was your last comment I read before I posted, not clarifying on or off lead. I just took 'out & about' as a being taken for a walk. My mistake, clearly.
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Or mine, dunno. I was thinking of the specific owner with his pack of Springers. Should have been more specific, shouldn't I?

On lead solves all problems of seasons, IMO and I think trying to not exercise a Springer or other high drive dog just cos of her season would lead to major nightmares at home.
 
I would not, for the simple reason I would want a say in what my dog is mating with and where the puppies are sold, at the end of the day some of those puppies could end up in rescue in a years time, would you like the thought of your dogs off spring banging their heads off some pound wall at a year old (or could you offer half of the responsibility of taking some dogs beack if need be)?, dalmations are not the easiest of breeds and for this reason thery are not uncommonly given up when they hit the teenage years, the main reasons we get dalmations in are 1, aggression 2, because they are hyper (granted the owners are usually tossers) but I would still want a say in where the off spring from my dog are and are the breeders offering back up for these puppies.
I also agree whilst there are stud dogs out there that would not bat an eye at bitches in season there are others that will indeed drop weight become pretty aggitated and destructive, and there are the health implications of keeping a dog entire for me anyway, I dont want my pet dog having a bigger risk of perineal hernia or testicular/prostate cancer that could have spread by the time I take his knackers off for the sake of him shafting a few bitches on someone elses behalf.
I really dont see the benefit for the pet owner, or the pet here.
 
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I wouldnt pay full price for a pup which i was co-owning with.

I co-own two dogs, Isabel and William. Isabel lives with me and William lives with his breeder.

I pay for Isabels upkeep..food, vet bills, show entries etc and Gill pays the same for William. Any stud fees and Puppy sales will be shared equally.

I think you need to be able to trust each other totally for this to work.
 
Co-ownership is very common. Lets the breeder/co owner to continue that bloodline if the pup turns out as they hope but means they dont have to feed/house another dog. Yes, they're getting a free stud dog basically, but if you really want the dog i wouldnt let it deter you as long as you get a contract drawn up.

TBH, it is more common with show dogs. I would be concerned about using him at stud if he is unshown. Most co-ownerships are done on the basis that if the dog proves itself in the ring/field then it will be used at stud by the breeder. If you're buying him as a pet i would ask for a reduced price as you will have to keep him entire which can (not always) be problematic, and will get worse after he has been used. Or, ask for a percentage of his stud fees, whichever you prefer.

But, if you do go ahead, make sure you have in writing (signed by both parties) exactly what the arrangement is and that he is put in JOINT names with the KC.

I personally would never buy a pup under a co-ownership contract as i wouldnt want to be dictated if/when they should be bred and to have the stud dog/bitch picked for me as i breed to produce my own show dogs, if you're not wanting him for that its not an issue. I know a lot of people who co-own their dogs and 99% of the time it works very well.
 
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