Coffins and corners in a BE80

[chocolategirl]

My long striding horse got a short 2 in the ditch, rail combination. If you are planning other 80s in the region I'm sure Warwick hall also has a similar combination and I think their may be a small ditch at Dalston green too. We were parked next to fence 2 which caught a lot of people out. It was a lovely course though and rode really well. Perhaps not ideal for someone doing their first event but perfect my my horse who had just come back from 18 months off with an injury.

Thank you and yes it WAS a lovely event! In spite of our little hiccup, we will be going there again. It was his first event this year, and having so many abandonments last summer, he is still greener than we had hoped he would be at this stage. I think if it had been later in the season, I wouldn’t have been starting this post lol! I agree though with those that are saying that for young green horses, it should be all encouraging and not designed to scare or confuse them? Anyhoo thanks for the responses even if one or two didn’t see my issue, I respect others oipinions totally.

 

[ihatework]

I would say, in general, courses at all levels are getting more technical.
Certainly over last 15 years. PN courses are now akin to the technicality of old novice courses and likewise at the lower heights. Its the way the sport is going, quality of horses is rising, much more is being invested by the amateur market.

That said if you are going to take a horse out BE, even at 80, it would be naive to not do sufficient preparation that a ditch and rail or a little corner comes as a surprise. They aren’t unreasonable questions even for green horses. Surely people xc school over such fences and do mock ups in the arena?

 

[chocolategirl]

Sorry but (in the interests of healthy debate only ) I disagree - 90% of the unaff ODEs around me are over BE courses and use the same fences, so you get the same questions at a slightly reduced fee? So there are not the opportunities to compete over ‘easier’ courses as a preparation for BE like there used to be

Yes this has been our experience also. I think perhaps BE need to drop the T from BE80 as I think this is why I thought it was a fairly harsh question. Ditches in front or underneath obstacles I don’t see as much of an issue as an ‘open’ ditch but perhaps I’m just behind the times!? I do love a healthy debate though lol!

 

[milliepops]

I thought the (T) in the BE80T was about having coaches available, rather than making the courses easy?

 

[be positive]

I thought the (T) in the BE80T was about having coaches available, rather than making the courses easy?

It is as far as I am aware, how much more should be done, jumping a single ditch when xc schooling is one of the first things I do with any horse, usually on their first outing, they will have schooled at home over mock ditches with rails before and afterwards and a few will take a dislike to them so require more work, others just pop over without a second thought, the same with corners they are introduced at home in an arena along with as much as possible to give the horse experience and confidence, if they go out competing and meet something totally new I would hope they have done enough to jump it without question but however well prepared they are there will nearly always be something that makes them take a look, it may result in a stop but they will have learnt something which is of benefit.

 

[Branna]

Interesting discussion. I grew up on unaff hunter trials where anything would go but looking at some of those old courses now is a shock when you get used to BE standards and course design. One local unaff course used by PC for years has a ditch to rail on 2 strides in the 70cm and 1 stride in the 85cm. Another local course had a drop into water, two strides and a boat out on a 3' open which is technicality you'd never get at that height BE!

One point I have thought of regarding the comment the OP made above regarding it being the horses first run of the year: There are some great coursewalk videos of Tina Ure who designed Horseheath describing the combinations. She brings up quite a few times that as generally people have lost so many runs this year she added an extra couple of strides to make the combinations a bit kinder across the levels BE80 to BE100. Interesting that it is obviously a consideration for some course designers!

 

[only_me]

I would imagine any corner at an 80 or 90 level would be simple enough to just jump as a spread in the middle without any real need to jump at an angle or even treat as a proper skinny.
Certainly at some 100s I’ve jumped corners over the middle with no concerns.

We had a big enough version of a vicarage V (over water ditch as Well!) in a novice class. That was fun!

 

[SOS]

I have just started eventing affiliated at BE80 and I have to say if anything I am slightly disappointed with the lack of complexity. It makes ‘moving up’ harder, as not only do you have the height difference, but most importantly the technicality is more demanding. BE90 seems similar with a few more combinations, and then when you get to BE100/Novice suddenly there seems to be a large leap in questions asked.

I went to my first event fully expecting a small ditch, water and potentially a corner. I guessed they would be there by looking at shoestring eventing course photos and also as many local cross country schooling venues have these questions in 70/80cm sizes. I also believe I overheard someone once say there will never be a full coffin in an 80 but can have a half...I may of dreamt that though. That said the day before i made sure I jumped one of the large drainage ditches between our fields out hacking a few times to make me a bit more gutsy!

 

[LeannePip]

I don't think a ditch rail is too much to ask, jumping hunter trials in the old days they would have had full coffins in most courses from 2ft plus!

The corners at this level will barely be 'corners' as we know and should just jump like a spread with a narrower end, it would be unlikely that you would be forced to jump on the flag or have to jump anything overly wide.

 

[Girlracer]

Maybe I'm just un lucky but most the 80s I've done have had ditch questions not dis similar to this!!

 

[Ambers Echo]

I've been at camp at Somerford this week and there was a course walk (not the BE course which is not out yet but just a 'how to walk courses' demo) with Andy Heffernan who is building the Somerford BE course. His view is that the lower levels should prepare you for the higher levels so he builds with questions and complexity at each level. Not sure where Somerford sits in the 'easy versus hard' BE80T courses but I do agree that they should ask some slightly trickier questions.

 

[Starbucks]

Interesting. I'm doing my first BE (80) in probably 8 to 10 years. I did a couple of intros but mainly PN before but when i look at BE100 courses now they scare the bejesus out of me!! Partly because I've become more wimpy but they have also got much much more technical. You would get maybe a corner or a skinny before but not the same complexity you get now.

I think it's a good thing to introduce these things at the lower levels. At least then rider and horse can get used to them while really they are not at all difficult. I do think they should be designed in a kind way though, I did the unaffiliated 80 at Eland Lodge and the corner was probably one of the biggest fences on the course!