Colic surgery - insurance bust - considering options

Cortez said:
If your horse is reacting to the sutures and has abscessed as a result, surely she will not suddenly stop being allergic and will continue to react as long as the sutures are in place? What does your vet say?
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internal sutures should dissolve so I would imagine the vets are thinking once the material has gone the wound will heal. Op you need to speak to your vets about long term prognosis and likely costs and make your decision, if you can't afford it then you can't afford it and that is your decision made anyway.
The financial limit would have been stated in paperwork at the time you took the insurance out, often the more expensive policies have higher financial limits but yours is a tough way to find that out.
 
OP I think I would advise a face to face meeting the vet or vets with no horse there , I was present when fatties owner tried to have a similar talk with him standing next to her .
It was too hard ,too painful ,do it in a room at the vets , make a list of your questions mainly I would think will the sutures dissolve and when they do will that resolve the issue .
What did they say to you about costs before the surgery did they warn you it was likely to be over budget , you might be able to agree a payment plan with them .
I don't think if I where you I would have any further surgery but you really need to understand fully what the various scenarios are ?
I am very sorry you are in this horrible situation have a huge hug , in life even when you do everything right it goes wrong it's just rotten luck .
 
Iona was referred to the surgery - so there are two sets of vets involved. I was told that the surgery would be around £4500, but of course there are livery charges and she developed the wound infection whilst in hospital, had a second colic, dodged the bullet so it took 11 days for her to be discharged. Hence costs leaping to £5.8k.

I plan to do as the vet suggests - it is a week since she was here - and see how Iona is a couple of weeks following the last vet assessment. Then if things are getting no better I will arrange for a meeting with vet - at the practice. I'll probably take my husband too (non horsey but he knows everything thats going on) so he can recall whats being said and be supportive.
I am really concerned about the money as I am beginning to cut down my hours of employment as I approach retirement age so this could get sticky.
However I have had some amazing advice on here - and its been great to share - with knowlegeable and supportive community. Thanks so much xxx
 
twiggy2 said:
internal sutures should dissolve so I would imagine the vets are thinking once the material has gone the wound will heal.....
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This is exactly what the vet is expecting to happen but it has been 15 weeks - the suture material is supposed to dissolve after 90 days. I read in a post on here that sutures can take 6 months to dissolve, mentioned that to vet and she agreed it could.
But its terrible hanging around watching the pus drip out and not being able to clean it properly due to the pain she is in on cleaning.
Last week the vet said that she knew of one that was still suppurating after 5 years - horse was in normal work, I can hardly believe it....
 
The reason that I was told that waiting wasn't a good option was due the high risk of sepsis/blood poisoning. I guess in your position PMR, it might be worth the risk to keep going and continue waiting.
 
Not sure how much help this is going to be but:
My elderly gelding had his 2nd colic surgery at the age of 25 some 3 years ago. (First one at 19. both pendunculated lipoma, first one with displaced caecium too & 3 metres small intestine removed.)
2nd surgery was very straightforward and ready to come home after 4 days when, bang, he got a massive, massive hock infection - they think from bacteria migrating from gut to hock! Identified as Aeromonas Hydrophila - never seen in a horse before, usually in fish in stagnant water (wtf?). Infection became way more life threatening than the colic surgery and crazy expensive to treat. He had 3 generals within 7 days, joint flushes under GA, plus about 6- 8 standing flushes and was in horspital for 3 weeks. He had massive doses of every know antibiotic (including Baytril) We just could not get his levels down to what they considered "normal" although they eventually stabilised, nbut the vets still wanted them lower. In the end I said, how do we know what is "normal" for him? Are all horses exactly the same? After 3 weeks and a £10k bill (gulp) we brought him home, on antibiotics still, to see how he got on. Touch wood he is now nearly 29 and his hock eventually settled down.
The info that may or may not be helpful from this is:-
(i) Once you start down the road of trying to rid the infection the bill can just keep mounting at a ridiculous rate, so try to pin your vet down as to likely scenarios.
(ii) Don't be afraid to challenge them if you do not understand their reasoning or why they are doing (or not doing) certain things - you know your own horse and are after all the paying customer.
(iii) You can get lucky and eventually get rid of the infection
 
Mild improvement this week. Today a yardmate was having vet out on a 'free visit' so decided to join in. Anyway it ended up as horsey having winter coat hair clipped off the wound to enable better cleaning (sedation required) and a fair amount of manipulating of the broken down tissue to enable release of a load of gunk from her abdomen. (OMG haven't had bill but I know it will be £££).
A fairly large 'linear chunk of protein' was taken out of a wound hole - honestly - courgette shaped about 25cm long - gruesome. Plenty more gunk n blood.
She's a wee bit sore tonight but I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end. Time will tell xxx
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Mild improvement this week. Today a yardmate was having vet out on a 'free visit' so decided to join in. Anyway it ended up as horsey having winter coat hair clipped off the wound to enable better cleaning (sedation required) and a fair amount of manipulating of the broken down tissue to enable release of a load of gunk from her abdomen. (OMG haven't had bill but I know it will be £££).
A fairly large 'linear chunk of protein' was taken out of a wound hole - honestly - courgette shaped about 25cm long - gruesome. Plenty more gunk n blood.
She's a wee bit sore tonight but I'm hoping this is the beginning of the end. Time will tell xxx
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I know you say she finds it painful to clean but if you can irrigate it with a 50ml syringe with saline or cooled boiled water it will keep the hole open and allow to keep draining. You do not want the hole to close and although it looks awful the fact that its draining out is a good thing.
 
honetpot said:
I know you say she finds it painful to clean but if you can irrigate it with a 50ml syringe with saline or cooled boiled water it will keep the hole open and allow to keep draining. You do not want the hole to close and although it looks awful the fact that its draining out is a good thing.
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This is part of our regime :)
 
Firstly I am so so sorry that this has happened to you. It's a dreadful situation to be in when you think you are covered - and something which I have only recently been contemplating myself due to others' posts. It must be so hard to see it through when you don't know the cause or the outcome. I have been in a similar situation with my dog - see my reply to this quote.

ihatework said:
Have they scanned the area?
Is there any chance that a swab/similar was left behind from the op?
It shouldn't happen, but it's not unheard of ....
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This is exactly what happened to me - I have a lurcher who skinned himself on barbed wire and needed the whole of his side reattatching. There was one area (under the armpit) where the wound didn't heal and the vet just put it down to location and the fact that he had taught skin and was lean. 2 changes of vet, multiple visits, multiple swabs (none showing infection), 5 different vets and 2 YEARS later, my new vet took him in and sedated him to have a furtle in the wound - and pulled out a rubber drain! 3 months later and he still hadn't healed so I asked them to put him under general - they pulled out another drain that had migrated up. Within 7 days he was healed. Crazy that there were two drains, that they had marked off as removed according to their notes. So it does happen... My boy also wasn't insured :(

Something needs investigating ASAP as this can go on for years - my boy is proof of this. If there is something left inside the wound will never heal :(
 
EQUIDAE said:
Firstly I am so so sorry that this has happened to you. It's a dreadful situation to be in when you think you are covered - and something which I have only recently been contemplating myself due to others' posts. It must be so hard to see it through when you don't know the cause or the outcome. I have been in a similar situation with my dog - see my reply to this quote.



This is exactly what happened to me - I have a lurcher who skinned himself on barbed wire and needed the whole of his side reattatching. There was one area (under the armpit) where the wound didn't heal and the vet just put it down to location and the fact that he had taught skin and was lean. 2 changes of vet, multiple visits, multiple swabs (none showing infection), 5 different vets and 2 YEARS later, my new vet took him in and sedated him to have a furtle in the wound - and pulled out a rubber drain! 3 months later and he still hadn't healed so I asked them to put him under general - they pulled out another drain that had migrated up. Within 7 days he was healed. Crazy that there were two drains, that they had marked off as removed according to their notes. So it does happen... My boy also wasn't insured :(

Something needs investigating ASAP as this can go on for years - my boy is proof of this. If there is something left inside the wound will never heal :(
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OMG did the original vets who performed the operation refund you the vets bill as it was their error? How on earth did all the other vets miss this and what made the last vet investigate in the end?? That is totally shocking, it makes you wonder if this is what has happened in the OP's case.
 
applecart14 said:
OMG did the original vets who performed the operation refund you the vets bill as it was their error? How on earth did all the other vets miss this and what made the last vet investigate in the end?? That is totally shocking, it makes you wonder if this is what has happened in the OP's case.
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I reported the original vets to the RCVS but was told 'it's just one of those things, we're very sorry'. It was a flat drain so you couldn't really feel it due to residual swelling. The last vet investigated in the end as I pushed quite strongly that I wanted it resolving - at 2 years it was getting a bit ridiculous. He's made a complete recovery and is barely even scarred now :)
 
A development. Not necessarily a welcome one. The wound / abscessing issue has really improved in the last week. She now only has about 4 little belly abscesses - and they are very very little.
She colicked again on Tuesday. Sweating, pawing ground, down and rolling (she rarely rolls normally) flank watching, raised temperature and breathing, mildly off her food (greedy mare).
Call vet out tell her I cannot go on like this so vet is prepared. I lunge her thank goodness for indoor school. Vet arrives and suggests possibly equine IBS. could have been cause of original colic. Administers buscopan, painkiller and anti in flam steroids. We wait to see what happens. After an hour Iona is fine asking for food so vet goes home oH and support troops go home I stay to tidy up and watch her for another hour. Half an hour later down she goes again. Back into school walk her round and phone vet who comes prepared to 'finish it'. By the time vet gets here Iona goes down again so we let her. Roll and roll and roll. Springs to her feet perky as anything again looking to eat. We deny food and keep her in the indoor all night. I return to check her intermittently (twice - a 36 mile round trip each time) and yo checks her as well. She is perky at midnight and 3am quiet at 7 but ok. A v v quiet day in the stable follows she is now prescribed 450mg prednisolone daily. That comes in the form of 90 cat pills. Cost still unknown need to phone vet but I've had advice on here. We want to clear the inflamed tissues. She's also to get hay not haulage as haulage slightly acidic.
Quiet today but brighter this evening according to yard. I have not been up I am on full livery in week although I go most days.
Watch this space lol. And thanks for support friends xxx
Today she is turned out for a few hours.
 
Not useful for you now but for others may be useful.
KBIS do a policy with £7.5k colic cover with additional cover for hospitalisation.
 
A nice positive one. Following her colic on 1/12 Iona took awhile to recover she was quiet for days but perked up last weekend. Sufficient for me to go away for a week on a work training course in Edinburgh.
Couldn't wait to see her on Saturday morning and..................... she looks amazing. Bright eyes shiny coat shod in the week so happy feet ( she has good feet). Happy me.
It took me 6 hours to drive back from the yard (17 miles away) in the rotten weather. But the pictures of my well and happy girl got me through the slog of the snow and ice.
Back up this morning. Still looking great. There are no more abscessing holes. It does look a little bit soft and pussy in one area but phoning vet for advice tomorrow.
What a conundrum this sweet mare is!
 
Lovely to hear a good update, hopefully this is the beginning of her regaining her health and putting this behind her. Please keep us up to date with progress x
 
I didn't see it as I was at work when vet came. I have a photo of it but I have no idea how to post on here. That's all it was - a long piece of abscessy flesh. Quite unpleasant.
 
Oh well here we go again. Interestingly the wound has healed, she has very very little swelling left and it looks as though this issue is all sorted :)

However ....... following her gradual change to hay rather than haylage at the beginning of the month Iona on Saturday started to refuse to eat her hay. This is v unusual. She is not a stressy complicated horse. She loves to eat. She is still eating and loving her feed rations (breakfast and tea of scoop chaff, scoop sugarbeet). Just doesnt want the hay. Its soaked. On Monday Vet advises feed it dry and persevere, she should not have possibly pickled haylage due to IBS.....
Tuesday this has got serious, she is lying down very frequently and still not eating hay although she whinnies at passing yardmates bearing haylage, straw etc anything different. Clever yard groom suggests feeding some different hay and yes she loves it but is still lying down mildly sweating, low level colic symptoms.
I am 200 miles away in Glasgow being good with family Xmas activities, desperate to get back to my girl.
After a difficult night when she was monitored by my (fantastic) YO she gets turned out this morning (eeek)
Vet turns up to see other clients and I have asked him to see Iona too. He diagnoses impaction due to change of diet to hay gives her fluids directly and turns her straight back out advising resumption of haylage which she loves. Finally I get to yard and she is looking well, having had a half net of haylage and I give her another. She will get another overnight. Lets see how she is in the morning. Thanks for your patience xxx
 
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Sometimes you need to put aside the text book and look at the horse in front of you. Haylage may not be ideal, but she eats it & was coping on it. Maybe offer hay alongside, but if it was me I wouldn't be taking away the only forage she'll eat.

Fingers crossed for her x
 
I have had a read through this thread and gosh you have been through it!

I agree with Nari if she will eat it and seems fine with it I would stick to the haylage. Mine is prone to impaction colic I do feed him hay which is soaked and lots of carrots as well as turnout every day whatever the weather which seems to help him. :)
 
pepsimaxrock said:
Please do not post in reply to say that you would never consider colic surgery. That would contribute nothing at best and be unhelpful.

My horse colicked on 4/8 and was operated for LDD straightaway. Discharged after 11 days with recovering v serious wound infection.
That wound has been problematic since and my mare developed a very bloated abdomen. Following box rest she was turned out into tiny paddock has had in hand walking is now in large paddock on her own for about 4 hours a day. She's now lunged in wtc every other day for about 15 - 20 mins.
The bloated abdomen has retreated somewhat. But the wound persists. She has been on loads of antibiotics noradine and Baytril amongst others.
Vet reckons she is abcessing due to adverse reaction to internal sutures. Every so often pus breaks through the wound she is relieved and then it starts to build again.
She is in pain when you clean her wound - daily task - but otherwise fine and happy good appetite normal temperature etc.
I was insured but am now 3k over limit. I cannot afford even £100 more.
Any thoughts friends?
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Glad things are looking up for your girl
 
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