Colour experts - dun and buckskin?

VioletStripe

VioletStripe

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Well.. I bet most people know this anyway, but can someone please clarify for me the difference between Dun and Buckskin? I can't seem to see much of a difference in the pictures!! :p So.. anyway, sorry for a numpty question!! xx
 
Buckskin is the 1st cream gene genetic mutation of bay, which means the horse has one cream dilute gene, causing buckskin from an originally bay horse if it did not have the dilute gene *does that make sense*. If it has 2, making it a double dilute the horse would become perlino.
I did a case study on this, and i found this site helpful - http://www.doubledilute.com
:)
 
Most horses we see in the UK are buckskin. The Dun gene doesn't exist in as many breeds as you think (however connemaras and highlands do off the top of my head :)).

The appearance is tricky because although dorsal stripes and barring on the leg occur with duns and not buckskins, I don't think they are visible in every dun :confused: Counter-shading can also mean the horse has a dorsal stripe, even when it doesn't carry the gene.

But all those dun welshies you hear about are buckskins, people just feel the term is american :p
 
This is a true Dun mare, she is actually a baydun:
00aaaKimMay10.JPG

08kim3yrsMay.JPG


This is a golden buckskin foal
okmerlin209.JPG

this is his buckskin dam, sorry not a very good photo
maddytrot.JPG


Buckskin, Palomino and Smokey Blacks are cream gene dilution. Dun is a seperate Dun dilution gene.
 
Sam is a Dun but I'm not sure which one. He was sold to me as a Silver Dun but I think of him as more Mouse Dun (was going to call him mouse at first). He is from poland and a Konik cross ,they are very good doers as you can see!!!!!!
picture.php
 
Well ladies, thank you for that thread I was one of the thickos that thought buckskin was an american term for dun!!

I thought I always wanted a dun arab, turns out I want a buckskin one!!
 
Sheri said:
Well ladies, thank you for that thread I was one of the thickos that thought buckskin was an american term for dun!!

I thought I always wanted a dun arab, turns out I want a buckskin one!!
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ha! North American terms are confusing, I am still trying to get my head around the fact that something that looks like it has been rolling in muck can be classified as a palomino! Chocolate palomino? Gah! Before genetic testing it was easier;)

Do purbred arabs come in dun/buckskin? I know they don't come in palomino, cremello etc.
 
Oh and according to his passport my new little sec D is Dun!!!!!! Think the person filling the form in was blind , had to check all the markings matched to be sure it was his. This pic was 4 weeks ago when we got him , he is now getting his summer coat which looks black to me. Perhaps Dun is trendy atm.
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So what does this make my mare?? Her mum is a palomino, and her dad was 'a big cream thing' so does the whole question of genes mean that she is not a dun, as i thought, but a buckskin? (she has a dorsal stripe)

She looks like the foals dam in Whirlwindhorses' post above, just more dappled, which only happens in summer.

I too thought buckskin was an american term for dun!!!!! :D

ETA : just re-read thread again, but now think that her dorsal stripe means she is a proper dun. And I'm proper
confused!!
 
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AFAIK the dilution gene doesn't exist in purebred arabians :)

I always used to think they were dun too, I was wrong :o
 
o o o o o getting excited now my girl is a bright bay however she has a dorsal stripe and looks just like the horse int he first picture. Shes also thrown a palomino before has she a dilute gene then? You can just see her stripe

CROPIMG_8001-02-1.jpg
heres my girl, shes in foal to a a dun but really a buckskin now stallion. so maybe a buckskin/dun/palomino?????????Knowing my luck a chesnut :D

Also for I hve no idea purposes what colour is this? Shes a dun on her passport. She has a stripe

DSC01615.jpg
 
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xRobyn said:
Most horses we see in the UK are buckskin. The Dun gene doesn't exist in as many breeds as you think (however connemaras and highlands do off the top of my head :)).

The appearance is tricky because although dorsal stripes and barring on the leg occur with duns and not buckskins, I don't think they are visible in every dun :confused: Counter-shading can also mean the horse has a dorsal stripe, even when it doesn't carry the gene.

But all those dun welshies you hear about are buckskins, people just feel the term is american :p
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Both dun and buckskin exist in the PRE, I think that the Connemara society has reclassified their duns as buckskins now.
 
Tennessee said:
So what does this make my mare?? Her mum is a palomino, and her dad was 'a big cream thing' so does the whole question of genes mean that she is not a dun, as i thought, but a buckskin? (she has a dorsal stripe)

She looks like the foals dam in Whirlwindhorses' post above, just more dappled, which only happens in summer.

I too thought buckskin was an american term for dun!!!!! :D

ETA : just re-read thread again, but now think that her dorsal stripe means she is a proper dun. And I'm proper
confused!!
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Her mum, being palomino carried one cream gene on a red (chestnut) base, palomino is the first dilute of chestnut, if dad was cream/cremello, then he carried two cream genes on a possible bay base colour, so, yes, your mare is a buckskin and not a dun.
 
toffee44 said:
o o o o o getting excited now my girl is a bright bay however she has a dorsal stripe and looks just like the horse int he first picture. Shes also thrown a palomino before has she a dilute gene then? You can just see her stripe

heres my girl, shes in foal to a a dun but really a buckskin now stallion. so maybe a buckskin/dun/palomino?????????Knowing my luck a chesnut :D
Click to expand...

What colour was the sire of the palomino foal? If he was a bay/black/chestnut then your mare must be carrying a dilute gene, but if the sire was palomino/buckskin then she doesn't as the foal would receive two copies (if both dam and sire were dilutes) of the gene and therefore be perlino/cremello :)

Thanks for the info Sirena, I don't know much about Connies so was just going by what I read :p
 
Duckskin! :D :D :D Love it.


xRobyn said:
, but if the sire was palomino/buckskin then she doesn't as the foal would receive two copies (if both dam and sire were dilutes) of the gene and therefore be perlino/cremello :)
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Not necessarily, if they only have one copy, they might not pass it on.
 
s4sugar said:
I think he's buckskin tobiano.
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Yep you're right he's buckskin and white.

It's amazing how often buskskin's are referred to as duns. Many people are unaware that it is a colour in it's own right. There are other colours that are commonly mistaken as well such as Smokey Black. A friend of mine has a smokey black stallion, he looks black but carries the single dilute gene so is capable of throwing palominos, buckskins and smokey blacks amongst others
 
oh ok I gettit now! The palomino belongs to her prev owner :D Well shes gone to Danaway Flash Jack this year (Im a welshy fan really) so I might be in for another Palomino then?? Will let you know in 329 days :D
 
I loveeeeeee Flashjack, had the real experience when I visited the stud open day last summer :D

I would expect a buckskin/bay as your mare is bay and he is buckskin, they both carry the agouti modifier whereas palominos don't :) However there is just over 3% chance for a palomino and 3% for a chestnut.

This website is great: http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator3.asp

lindsayH, you're right, my mistake :o
 
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http://www.duncentralstation.com/ - very good site specificaly on dun and look alikes.

www.equine-color.info - another good info site for all colours with a forum for questions.

:)

Buckskins are bay cream dilutes, black/chocolate points and sand/honey coloured bodies, can have dark/light dappling, they can have a diffuse dorsal like stripe which is countershading.

Dun as usualy confused with buckskin is Bay dun dilute, black/ chocolate points with yellowish/sandy/honey body, distinct clear edged dark dorsal, can also have a shoulder striping (similar to a donkey) zebra striping on the legs and a darker face mask/cobwebbing on the face.

Unfortunately (for my brain anyway) one of the few native british breeds with true dun is the highland and the breed society is a little creative with the names for the shades ect which can make it hard to work out what genes the ponies carry. I need to make a dictionary.
 
Neither Buckskin/Palomino (cream) or Dun exists in Purebred Arabs...but you can get purebred Arabs with counter shading which gives them the dorsal stripe, leg barring and shoulder marks that Duns have. Here is a purebred Arab foal and his purebred dam.
00aaaKatie10coltA.JPG

00aaaKatie10coltB.JPG

00aaKatie.JPG

The foal will eventually go very dark bay or brown and his stripe will then be hidden.
 
xRobyn said - "they both carry the agouti modifier whereas palominos don't "

sorry trying to get the hang of quotes. Feel free to ignore the crazy pedantic lady but technicaly
a chestnut is ee at the extension locus while blacks are Ee or EE

A black is aa at the agouti locus

A bay has to be Ee or EE and Aa or AA,

A chestnut is ee and can be Aa or AA as there is no black pigment for agouti to restrict it will make no difference to their colour but will affect whether they have a black or bay foal when put to an EE aa stallion.

Technicaly a bay is black based with an agouti modifyer. :)
 
Oh God...all I can remember about genetics from school is fruitflies:confused:


I have a dun highland....he has tiger-stripes on his legs, a dorsal stripe, darker patches on his shoulders and a darker head. Gorgeous he is....and veeery easy to keep clean compared with my grey. Always a bonus;)

Sorry about the pants picture- don't have many on this pooter but i think you can see his stripe...

dc10thmay2009018-1.jpg
 
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