colt due to be gelded but vet couldn't inject to sedate, help!

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Had the vet out today to geld my 10 month old Appy, hes been getting very colty but is always fine to handle. He is a bit nervous round strangers etc but the vet was great, came in chatting to him rubbing him etc. He seemed relaxed but when she went to inject him, as soon as the needle started to go in BOOM!!! Up on his hind legs and stuck out!!!! The vet was really patient but everytime just as the needle went in he went up, he was getting dangerous in the end and had to give up. Kicked me in the ribs and caught my hand, he was coming at us angrily! I'm so upset he reacted like this and don't know where to go from here :-( how can we geld him if can't sedate him?! He needs doing asap as hassling the others in the field!
 
It may be an idea to ask for a more experienced/prepared vet- I helped a neighbour when she had three previously unhandled colts gelded, the vet was brilliant- we had to contain the horses in a small area, and he sedated 'on the run' so to speak, which then enabled us to catch, halter and castrate each one. It can be done, but the vet needs to be very quick and very prepared- oral sedation may help if it is going to be problem if anyone new arrives as your boy has already had a pretty scary experience.
 
Get some sedalin oral paste from the Vet, who will obviously tell you the dose they require you to give, about half an hour before the Vet arrives. He should be quiet enough to enable the Vet to inject.
 
Ask vet to jab some sedative into his bottom muscle first to take the edge off him, then into vein when hes looking sleepy. I doubt sedalin will calm him enough if he is reacting that badly.
 
Thanks everyone, think the intramuscular injection the best way! He's very well handled, I can do anything with him normally! Just gets very nervous around vets, farriers etc 😕 but this was the first time he's reacted violently! I realise he prob just trying to protect himself but he was so nasty coming at us
 
Get him used to the sight of a syringe.
Pretend to be a vet and pull at his skin.
If it needs to be done sooner can you give him some calmer in food or in mouth or even in muscle prior to vet injecting him.
Plus more people to hold him and a twitch.
 
Patterdale said:
I would have twitched him or trapped him behind a gate. There's always a way. Your vet sounds a bit wet, sorry.
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This!

Twitch and a blind fold would probably get the job done! And then once gelded practise getting him used to vets/needles so that you don't have the same problem again!
 
Patterdale said:
I would have twitched him or trapped him behind a gate. There's always a way. Your vet sounds a bit wet, sorry.
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So would I that would after I half murdered ( in my head ) it for having a go at a human .
I would have twitched and wedged it with bales and got some sedative in .
OP feeding sedaline ( or similar ) before the vet comes then depending on how well that works then get some in his bum and then in a vein.
 
Surprisingly some vets are very wet, you would expect them to be big bull handling type of men like they were in the good old days, but now they are very scared of being injured, guess thats the way the world is going.
 
Actually sounds like your vet tried their best in the circumstances. However, so few owners these days are capable of handling their horses in these circumstances and capably assisting the vet compared to days gone by and facilities are rarely suitable unless the owner regularly has youngsters or has a breeding operation. Sounds like the best idea is to formulate a plan with your vet. Make sure you have a good set up with somewhere to safely restrain your horse, maybe pick up some sedalin or go for intramuscular sedation (this in not licensed). There is little point in doing this after adrenaline is up as it is much much more difficult to predict the quantity of drug required so is sensible to come back another day since your horse was worked up. As an aside, the cost of intramuscular sedation may much much more than normal as 2-3times the intravenous dose is required. I agree there is always a way but some ways are riskier than others and it will very much depend on handler experience, horse's attitude, time and facilities as to which way to proceed with a wound up horse.

Also, it is rarely the risk of being injured themselves that causes a vet to abort such visits, but the risk of an (often relatively inexperienced) handler being injured.
 
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I would set up a crush .... Somewhere the horse can be restrained without harming himself and others. I've used a narrow walkway with a solid wall one side and a fence on the other with a gate either end..stallion was unhandled but had no choice but to stand there and be jabbed.
 
postputasocinit said:
Surprisingly some vets are very wet, you would expect them to be big bull handling type of men like they were in the good old days, but now they are very scared of being injured, guess thats the way the world is going.
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No vet should be expected to allow themselves to be injured by a clients horse. Surely it is up to us, the owner to do a much as we possibly can to socialise and train our horses to be as accepting as possible ?

Of course some horses are difficult in certain situations, a distressed racehorse for instance, but surely the routine work we all expect our vets to do should not be a high risk situation for us or the attending vet.

Train and teach the rude creatures to have manners. My three year old was seriously rude this afternoon over the simple procedure of being wormed. She was soon advised of the appropriate behaviour required, front foot waving was not on the agenda.
 
Don't suppose you've got a stable with bars, have you? I had one that was a SOB to inject - i put the lead rope through the bars, pulled until his head was right up against them, then leant on the rope with all my might until the vet had done his bit. Its not particularly pleasant, but neither was his behaviour!
 
Twitch. Had two of mine done this week, and vet twitched before even injecting. One was still a sod with the iv needle but forcing him into a corner and making it very difficult for him to then move, solved the issue.
Safety is obviously paramount,but maybe your vet could have handled it slightly better, and I would also agree that you need to consider a different vet,or possibly formulate a plan with this one ahead of a second attemp.
 
Domesedan gel under the tongue is a lot more effective than sedaline I have found. A dose of that prior to the vet arrival will have him as quiet as a lamb
 
postputasocinit said:
Surprisingly some vets are very wet, you would expect them to be big bull handling type of men like they were in the good old days, but now they are very scared of being injured, guess thats the way the world is going.
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The value in vets is in their brain not their brawn. They aren't horse breakers or even trainers, and they are all self employed so if they get crunched, they don't earn. Maybe it was different "back in the day" but I do absolutely remember vets 30 years ago who would get back in the car and drive away if someone's horse pissed around too much. Not their problem. I don't blame them one bit. If you can't hold your horse (or find someone who can) why should a vet risk his or her neck?

An initial IM or oral sedation does sound the way to go, although neither or those is failsafe if a horse really objects. Are you able to twitch him if necessary? Not pleasant but sometimes needs must.

Re someone being wet about a horse striking AT them (the OP was hit twice, remember) . . .huh? I deal with horses that do that sort of thing quite often and I would certainly not ask another person to put themselves on the line. I don't think this horse sounds like a villain but striking is NOT ON regardless of the possible motivation.
 
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I don't think the vet was wet ,it's not the vets job to risk life and limb to do a routine procedure to badly prepared aggressive horse .
 
alainax said:
Domesedan gel under the tongue is a lot more effective than sedaline I have found. A dose of that prior to the vet arrival will have him as quiet as a lamb
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This, though I wouldn't want to promise it will make him quiet as a lamb it's likely to make injecting him possible as long as you're both on the ball & using other forms of restraint.
 
3Beasties said:
This!

Twitch and a blind fold would probably get the job done! And then once gelded practise getting him used to vets/needles so that you don't have the same problem again!
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why not practice first rather than put the vet at risk with an ill prepared horse?

OP gelding is not life or death, put the work in and present your vet with a horse ready to be handled in a weeks time.
 
There is no doubt that a horse that strikes out is a danger to those around it, but the way I read the OP it sounded as though the calm, sensible, well handled colt did not behave dangerously until after a 'wet' vet had started to inject it. To be fair in this situation the vet really should have already finished the injecting by the time the horse even felt it/noticed- quick rub, and all over. Some vets (and indeed owners) do sometimes make a big issue of things instead of quickly, quietly and calmly just getting on with things. I have seen both types, but now only ask for the latter type especially if I am not sure how the horse will react!
 
He is well handled but only by me, had I been able to inject him I don't think there would have been a problem, I would have had the element of surprise!! As soon as a stranger comes in he is on the defensive, suppose last time he was injected it was to be microchipped and guess that's not nice! Agree if vet had got it in quicker the whole situation would have been different! We tried twitching him, it took a while to get it on but once we did he reared up and struck out at it and got it off!! We tried the tying to the bars too, got a leg through the bar! I don't want him getting hurt or any humans, thought bout the stocks but he would still be able to rear and worried he'll injure himself more if in a confined space!
 
I think you need to get as many people handling him as possible even if it starts off by them giving him a treat and a rub and going away again, or even giving him his feeds. If he got the twitch off it needs to be on tighter, ive never yet ever had a twitch come off even when scoping Tb yearlings for sales, we were also taught at work never let go either. Incidentally do you use specific equine vets that do equine work in a clinic or a vet from a mixed ambulatory clinic? I can recommend an equine vet, my jumping pony was notoriously bad with vets and earned herself a reputation so much so that only certain vets would treat her, those vets were exceptionally good with her even when she was hospitalised with them on many occasions, the nurses weren't overly happy with her being there mind.
 
As for preparing him, as I said he is well handled! Brought in to be stabled every night, brushed, feet picked out etc! I genuinely didn't think he would react like this. He has no fear of the syringe it's when the needle pricks his skin he goes up
 
I've been bringing people in to see him etc he was a little jumpy at first but then fine. Pretty hard to hold on to the twitch when he's striking out with both front legs but agree don't think they got it on tight enough! The thing is until it happened I didn't think the injection would be a problem, now he has a massive issue with it!!
Going to ring and discuss with a specialist equine practice
 
Think you need all your horsey friends come along to fuss him so gets more used to strangers. Then work up to them having a blunt syringe with a rubber band to ping him then immediate gets a treat so he gets used to strangers giving him fuss, wee sting then a treat as a reward.

I prepped my youngster for his first injection as above (Richard Maxwell's suggestion) with dummy syringe and elastic band and then given a tasty treat. I hasten to say this is the only time that I would give food treats to a youngster. Some friends thought I was mad doing this but my vet was very pleasantly surprised at how well behaved he was and then she proceeded to give me all her horror stories of some of the wild youngsters that she had come across.
 
Gosh! How a simple procedure has got so quickly out of hand!

I think that giving him an oral sedative before your vet approaches him would be kindest. It sounds as though your colt needs gelding as soon as possible.
Why does he go 'on the defensive' as soon as he's approached by a stranger? He needs to be socialised PDQ!
 
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