Competition horses and pressure

[Booboos]

Do you think that competition horses are under more mental pressure than leisure horses and if yes, do you think this affects their welfare? Are they more likely to misbehave, or break down (mentally or physically), or just have unhappy lives because of competing? Do you think that life as a leisure horse is more fun for the horse?

 

[Flame_]

I think they'd all be happier if we never worked them at all and just fed them and paid their vet bills!

However, horses have to have a job and so long as horses are sound, healthy, well looked after and used for a suitable job for their type and temperament they should be content enough.

I'm trying to sell my riding horse at the moment. I bought her to be a leisure horse but she's afraid and unsafe in traffic. Fortunately she's proved rather good at jumping and she seems to really enjoy it, so in theory, she should be much happier when I can find her a competition home than staying with me trying to get her to accept something its in her nature to be unhappy about.

 

[milliepops]

Hmm, depends on your definition of competition horses really. I'd normally class mine as a competition horse as that's her job, but her lifestyle is far removed from horses at the top levels of competition, so not sure it's the same

It's difficult to answer this because I don't think horses experience happiness as such - I think they do feel pain, fear, discomfort etc (and then the absence of those things which is what we all aim for ).

It makes me sad to hear of competition horses whose lifestyle doesn't allow them to have down time to just be horses though and I would question whether their natural needs are being met if they have no turnout etc. I think this is where there problems with behaviour etc could arise from - they all need time to let off steam and relax IMO, no matter how valuable they are I think a lot of top riders/trainers know this though as this is probably the best way to keep the horse on your side.

 

[chestnut cob]

I think it depends on the level of competition but TBH, a horse that gets to a pretty high level would surely have to be of a certain mindset, just like its rider? Not every horse has the nerve (whatever sport you are competing in) to make a success of competing so I would assume those horses would find it easier to cope with the pressure of the travel, the environment etc. I actually think some horses thrive on competition. I know that my horse gets bored senseless if all we do is hack and work at the yard. The more variety in his work he gets, the happier he is. He would be happy getting out to somewhere different every weekend. My boy isn't a competition horse, he is a leisure horse that I happen to do a bit of competition on (my current fad is for SJ...we are going to attempt a 2ft9 class this weekend..!!), but he is most definitely happiest when his life is busy. He loathes just being a happy hacker and only ever working in our arena at home; when I take him somewhere he lights up. So, my logic is that if my leisure horse can enjoy getting out competing at a low level so much then high level competition horses who are successful must enjoy it even more.

I am sure there are horses who are worked too hard and horses who do breakdown but then surely those are the horses who don't make it to the top?

I honestly don't think life is "more fun" for a leisure horse as a generalisation. I'm sure most horses would actually be happiest if they all lived as field ornaments though! There is a horse on our yard whose owner can only get down once or twice a week (horse on full livery) and he is bored senseless. I would also wonder whether in some cases, being "just" a leisure horse could be detrimental to a horse's well being? Whilst I may not necessarily agree with how some top level competition horses are worked, these are a minority (IMHO) and there are more "happy hackers" out there who are never worked correctly, whose riders never take lessons and so are unbalanced, and who spend their lives slopping along on the forehand or being ridden around an arena with heads in the air and dipped backs...

I wonder which is worse?

ETA - I agree with milliepops re. turnout. I'm at a racing yard and it upsets me to see the horses are rarely turned out, bar their holiday. Every horse, bar none, is utterly miserable. They all box walk, crib, wind suck... it's no life at all. However, I do appreciate that not every racing yard is like this. Another local racing yard is the polar opposite..last time I was there, a £1million filly was pointed out to me... turned out with 3 other fillies, next to 4 colts and racing around the paddock having a whale of a time. All of their race horses go out for 8 hours a day, every day. So I guess maybe it's to do with the yard and owner/rider rather than competition horses generally.

 

[NeedNewHorse]

Yes of course!

I also agree with the other poster, horses would be more than happy in the fields just doing their thing, however the fact that horses exist means they have to work now, as they cannot roam as they once did.

However, I do feel like factory farming corners are cut alot in terms of winning or money, for example; We all know how horses SHOULD live and I think more can be done to try and keep them as natural as possible and unless you try and stick to those principles before you know it, certains things are the norm and then once something is the norm more pressure can be put to gain results from that, pushing the horses lifestyle further and further away from what is deemed the best!

hmm.. Now I wonder..? Does any of that make sense!!

xx

 

[milliepops]

when I take him somewhere he lights up.

I agree with a lot of what you have said - just to pick up on this specific point ^^ ... My mare is the same.

She can get rather bored and dull if we do the same thing week after week and also seems to enjoy outings a lot. I wonder how much of it is excitement per se (as we know it) and how much is stress though? I don't think this compromises her welfare as she thrives on it, and as you say, those horses who can't cope with it will not make it up the grades.

Interesting topic but sadly I'm not feeling very eloquent today

 

[chestnut cob]

I agree with a lot of what you have said - just to pick up on this specific point ^^ ... My mare is the same.

She can get rather bored and dull if we do the same thing week after week and also seems to enjoy outings a lot. I wonder how much of it is excitement per se (as we know it) and how much is stress though? I don't think this compromises her welfare as she thrives on it, and as you say, those horses who can't cope with it will not make it up the grades.

Interesting topic but sadly I'm not feeling very eloquent today

I can only comment on my own horse but I know when he is stressed and when he is excited. I took him to a HT at Eland Lodge recently and he hated it. He "lit up" but in the wrong way... he was awful in the warm up, was elim at fence 4 because he just couldn't settle out on the course. As we only did the 70cm class, they let us carry on and it took until past the half way point of the course for him to settle. It was stress, not excitement. He just didn't seem to be able to cope with being out on the course alone, being asked to jump solid fences, the like of which he has mostly never seen before (going hunting and jumping P&R and hedges is totally different to HT fences, when you're on your own). However, I took him SJ last night and he was fantastic. Took everything on, had a smile on his face throughout (I'm sure you know what I mean!), was rideable, not backing off but really taking things on... This tells me that my horse enjoyed the SJ last night whereas he didn't particularly enjoy the HT.

I'm sure that with the right rider, most horses could do reasonably well up to PN or low level BSJA but I really think it takes a certain sort of horse to be able to do well at top level. They would have to thrive on the atmosphere of competition and the lifestyle as a whole. However, as I am one of those awful people who will never have the talent to affiliate at all and who has only ever competed up to 3ft SJ and Nov dressage, I am probably talking out of my bottom

 

[Booboos]

Well I suppose I was thinking about it all in response to another post where it was suggested that a horse's behaviour (bucking off a rider) was because it was a dressage horse.

I have come across horses that were not happy unless competing. My old SJer would take matters into his own hands if I didn't take him out often enough. He would jump out of his paddock, calmly cross the yard, jump into the summer jumping paddock and do a little course all by himself. On the other hand, he was very upset by heavy traffic so hacking was often very stressful for him.

I do think that competitions have, in general terms, developed around what horses would do anyway, and some horses love the attention, the thrill and do seem to really co-operate with their riders in doing well (I have a dog who will do obedience and agility but only with an audience, if it's just the two of us she walks away!). I also agree with other posters that turn out and companionship are often crucial for a happy life.

 

[Puppy]

I think they'd all be happier if we never worked them at all and just fed them and paid their vet bills!

LOL! For a lot of horses I'm sure that is true, but I have one I do that with and I can honestly say she does miss her work She is a bred-to-jump belgium WB, in her prime, and it's there's been times I've been quite concerned about how she really didn't take to retirement

 

[GreyBadger]

So I guess maybe it's to do with the yard and owner/rider rather than competition horses generally.

This is exactly what I was going to write when I read the OP... The horse's mental state is, frankly, a fairly good mirror of that of the people on the ground and on top.

 

[milliepops]

I can only comment on my own horse but I know when he is stressed and when he is excited. I took him to a HT at Eland Lodge recently and he hated it. He "lit up" but in the wrong way... he was awful in the warm up, was elim at fence 4 because he just couldn't settle out on the course. As we only did the 70cm class, they let us carry on and it took until past the half way point of the course for him to settle. It was stress, not excitement. He just didn't seem to be able to cope with being out on the course alone, being asked to jump solid fences, the like of which he has mostly never seen before (going hunting and jumping P&R and hedges is totally different to HT fences, when you're on your own). However, I took him SJ last night and he was fantastic. Took everything on, had a smile on his face throughout (I'm sure you know what I mean!), was rideable, not backing off but really taking things on... This tells me that my horse enjoyed the SJ last night whereas he didn't particularly enjoy the HT.

Supposed to be working, but I'm finding this more interesting to think about

I don't doubt that you can tell the difference between stress (as in worry) and excitement in your horse. You're clearly able to ride with feel and understanding of your horse That wasn't quite what I was getting at though.

My mare used to show signs of anxiety when we first started jumping. (Is this how you would interpret stress?) She would sweat up in the jump field before we did anything, be unwilling to go and generally got in a tangle. Now she competes BE Novice and it is completely within her comfort zone - takes me on into the fences and tanks round - yes, I recognise that smile on their face Great, isn't it!

I still can't explain what I mean by stress though - not as in how we interpret it as humans but more what it does to the body chemically. I think I put her under stress every time I take her out of her routine- though this seems to suit her. I think I mean stress as in tension - and excitement is pretty similar to tension in this way. I found this page http://ask.metafilter.com/129074/Ne...difference-between-being-stressed-and-excited which kind of explains what I'm getting at. Someone one there suggests that stress is the same as excitement except one is more pleasant than the other. Ho hum. Guess we need some horse neuro-physiologists on here Let's just agree that some horses go well with competition and some don't! sorry if I've gone OT, Booboos

 

[RobinHood]

I think it depends on the individual horse and its management. The number of hours spent stabled, number of visual horizons from the stable, type of bedding, level of forage/concentrate fed, opportunity for co-species contact etc all have an effect on the incidence of stereotypic behaviour and cortisol levels. Arguably competition horses are more likely to be stabled for longer and be fed higher concentrate rations. They are also less likely to be bedded on straw which prevents them from performing foraging behaviour. Massively elevated cortisol levels have been found after travelling so that is also a known stressor.

I spent some time in france and germany travelling round some of the best studs and training centres. Some of those horses literally stood in the stable for 23hrs a day and were only taken out and led along the barn to be worked in an indoor school, so they never even saw the outside world. Again in America I went to a saddlebred yard where the horses were kept in unlit indoor stables with a viewing hole in the door you could slide open to peer inside. They were hobbled front and back, and wore tail sets and cribbing collars. Apparently if you keep them in isolation in the dark they are more "expressive" under the bright lights of a show...

On the other hand some competition horses probably have a more relaxed lifestyle than leisure horses. I can think of many horses that never compete but are stressed daily through inappropriate management. I'm not saying all horses should be turned out in herds for their whole life as it's not always practical, but it is important to put thought into stable design, feeding regime and daily routine.

Certainly many horses thrive on going to parties and performing in their particular discipline, and find having a holiday stressful!

 

[Booboos]

Not at all, very interesting, thanks for the link.

One of the last points on that link is very interesting, the distinction between arousal and valance. I suppose the arousal a horse may experience when faced with SJ and hacking in heavy traffic may be the same, as it may be an equally intense, adrenaline producing reaction, but the valance can differ, if the SJ is welcome and pleasant, whereas the hacking in traffic is unwelcome and scary.

 

[Booboos]

Sorry, just another thought on a different point. Although I strongly believe in turn out and company, I don't think these are necessarily stress free activities for some horses. Being in a herd can be full of stress, especially if a horse's status is uncertain or if he is being kicked out of the herd by the other horses (I imagine this might be one of the most stressful things that could happen to a horse because in evolutionary terms being sent away from the herd is a huge punishment).

 

[RobinHood]

Guess we need some horse neuro-physiologists on here Let's just agree that some horses go well with competition and some don't! sorry if I've gone OT, Booboos

I did my dissertation on equine neural physiology so I'll attempt a simplified rundown of part of the the stress response known as mesolimbic dopamine transmission. The main structure involved is the nucleus accumbens, with the core responsible for stress and the outer regions being involved in pleasure eg. cocaine or sex . So yes the same structure is responsible for both.

When a horse is stressed (acute stress not chronic) the amygdala releases opioids onto the ventral tegmental area (VTA) eg. beta endorphine binds to the mu receptor, just as heroin and morphine bind to the mu and delta receptors. This causes the VTA to release dopamine on the A10 bundle, and the dopamine then binds to D1 receptors on the nucleus accumbens. This has an exitatory effect and causes the 'kick' that people get from taking drugs and horses get from cribbing. Once the dopamine has bound to all the D1 receptors any more dopamine goes back to the VTA where it binds to D2 receptors. This has a sedating effect and therefore acts as negative feedback, bringing everything back to normal.

Crib biters have an increased number of mu receptors on the VTA (Hemmings et al., 2009) meaning that the horse can achieve nucleus accumbens stimulation more easily. Mice will run over an electricified grid to press a button that activates the nucleus accumbens, but they won't cross the same grid to access food!

If you're interested in reading more then I'd recommend anything by McBride, Hemmings and Parker, and pretty soon there's going to be a fair amount of new material published which is fascinating in terms of the neural basis of stereotypy.

I'll be quiet now as I could go on forever .

 

[milliepops]

I did my dissertation on equine neural physiology

Good god, I was actually joking but thanks for that! You get all sorts on here...

I won't pretend to understand half of what you wrote but interesting about the mouse thing, that's freaky. I find this stuff fascinating so your next task RH is going to be to turn all of the new material into something that lay people can make sense of!

 

[dressagecrazy]

I think Pressure can be a big issue with young horses.

When my current dressage horse came to me he was a mentally broken horse & he was just 5yo. I was told by many that 1, i was mad for buying him & 2, he would never do Dressage & the best thing for him was to be put through the sales or shot!! This horse had been passed from yard to yard from a baby with each owner trying to push him more & more.

So yes for me some horses are pressured to the point of breaking, mainly because of a persons competitive & financial drives.

The horse is now competing sucessfully at Medium & training Avd, so has made every inch the horse i thought he could be, it's a big smack in the face to those who told me to have him shot.
I am competitive but i allow the horse to be a horse, i dont do drilling & i don't do competition after competition. If we do good structured training at home with loads of breaks & rewards there usually is no need to go chasing competition qualifications & pushing him. He does love to please now & im always very aware of this over & above my own competitive drives.

Many of my horses problems happened because he was a young horse that moved nicely. Instead of allowing him to mature quietly into the big horse he is, Greed & competitiveness came in & pushed him to breaking point, i see this so often in the competion world.

Some horses like people just cannot be treated like machines, so they rebel. With good out of the box thinking & management they can come right & even enjoy working & competitons again.

 

[ilovecobs]

I think competition horses do have a lot more pressure and so do their riders. Hard training is physically demanding but if the rider/owner is responsible they know when to call it a day and will not over work their horses. Mentally i think if they are allowed some time to just be a horse then they will be fine. Im often criticised for not hacking out often as it is unfair on my horse to just be schooled in the ménage all the time, but my schooling sessions can be a small as 20 mins some days and my horse hacks out about twice a month (i have rubbish hacking in my area so i take my horse places in the trailer.) sometimes in traffic and sometimes not. She also goes in the field either 6 or 7 days a week (stabled over night) and in my opinion she couldn't be more intent. Some people keep their horses in all the time e.g. 6 months at a time "just because they don't like the cold" <<<Yes thats an actual quote of somebody i know and this was a happy hacker who was never schooled and only ridden a handful of times a week. I have no idea why they did this over winter and the horse had turnout rugs and stuff but their winter fields where quite muddy where she is and i dont think she liked to go and try to get her horse in walking through the mud. This is much more cruel in my opinion, but hey! each to their own

 

[ilovecobs]

Sorry, just another thought on a different point. Although I strongly believe in turn out and company, I don't think these are necessarily stress free activities for some horses. Being in a herd can be full of stress, especially if a horse's status is uncertain or if he is being kicked out of the herd by the other horses (I imagine this might be one of the most stressful things that could happen to a horse because in evolutionary terms being sent away from the herd is a huge punishment).

I agree with this, the farm i am on now is 2 horses per field and when one leave them they can see the ones in the next field so are happy still, works so much more better.
However at my old farm my mare was the boss, she loved it, other horses owners where not so impressed, but my gelding hated it as in his field he constantly got chased pushed around and as he had bad arthritis it didnt help and a lot of the time he would be very very lame.

When i first came onto the farm i am on now i was worried about the turnout arrangement as my mare has demolished fencing before as she hates being on her own but shes now fine, i was quite surprised tbh but it goes to show you how different more relaxed environments can change your horse for the better.

 

[chestnut cob]

My mare used to show signs of anxiety when we first started jumping. (Is this how you would interpret stress?) She would sweat up in the jump field before we did anything, be unwilling to go and generally got in a tangle. Now she competes BE Novice and it is completely within her comfort zone - takes me on into the fences and tanks round - yes, I recognise that smile on their face Great, isn't it!

I still can't explain what I mean by stress though - not as in how we interpret it as humans but more what it does to the body chemically. I think I put her under stress every time I take her out of her routine- though this seems to suit her. I think I mean stress as in tension - and excitement is pretty similar to tension in this way. I found this page http://ask.metafilter.com/129074/Ne...difference-between-being-stressed-and-excited which kind of explains what I'm getting at. Someone one there suggests that stress is the same as excitement except one is more pleasant than the other. Ho hum. Guess we need some horse neuro-physiologists on here Let's just agree that some horses go well with competition and some don't! sorry if I've gone OT, Booboos

I know horses are very different to humans because they are flight animals etc etc but from a human perspective... there is a very fine line between stress and pressure. I work in a reasonably stressful job (sales, which can be stressful) and I react well to a certain amount of stress. For me, the difference comes when that stress turns into pressure. I perform better under a moderate amount of stress (ie, deadlines to meet and in a competitive sales situation) but I find it more difficult to perform when really under pressure because I go to pieces. I wonder how much horses can be like this? And I also wonder how much of this is chemical? There is definitely a point at which the stress becomes too much so instead of helping me to perform, it hinders instead.

I agree 100% that some horses go well in competition and some don't. That said, I took mine SJ last year and he was a nightmare. So, I've invested a lot of time and money recently in SJ training and it's paying off. He now understands more what is being asked of him and seems to be going better out SJ (the little bit I have done). However, I've only done a tiny bit of XC schooling and I think this showed up in our HT. The stress caused by SJ somewhere else seemed to be the sort of stress that helped him to perform, whereas the stress of the XC/HT crossed that line into being a hindrance.

Does that makes sense? I am also not eloquent today!

 

[NeedNewHorse]

I spent some time in france and germany travelling round some of the best studs and training centres. Some of those horses literally stood in the stable for 23hrs a day and were only taken out and led along the barn to be worked in an indoor school, so they never even saw the outside world. Again in America I went to a saddlebred yard where the horses were kept in unlit indoor stables with a viewing hole in the door you could slide open to peer inside. They were hobbled front and back, and wore tail sets and cribbing collars. Apparently if you keep them in isolation in the dark they are more "expressive" under the bright lights of a show...

God! That sounds truely awful.. And this is kind of what i mean. The idea of winning has compromised the welfcare and care of a horse, which in my opinion should never be even remotely questioned or up for argument. The care of the horse should be priority and something that cannot be tweaked to gain any more marks so to speak.. clearly these horses are not horses at all but winning products. Polishing an object and keeping it out of sunlight to avoid bleaching.. All very well and good if it's not a living animal....

 

[wench]

My horse has recently come back into work after having an op. He is a "leisure" horse, but does go to competitions. He has run off with me three times in three weeks, because he is bored. All we have done is hacking at home in work, and he is bored stiff. He loves going to shows - hes generally naughty at the ridden stuff, but he really enjoys eating the different grass and watching what is going on!

 

[chestnut cob]

Well I suppose I was thinking about it all in response to another post where it was suggested that a horse's behaviour (bucking off a rider) was because it was a dressage horse.

I can't understand why being a dressage horse would be cited as a reason for the horse bucking its rider off? Horses buck, I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on their sport. Could be for all sorts of reason (not criticising you Booboos, just a bit perplexed by the post you mention).

 

[Booboos]

I can't understand why being a dressage horse would be cited as a reason for the horse bucking its rider off? Horses buck, I don't think it's necessarily a reflection on their sport. Could be for all sorts of reason (not criticising you Booboos, just a bit perplexed by the post you mention).

I have PMed you the link because I don't want to pick on the person who made that comment. Maybe I misread it, but this is what I took it to mean. I also found it odd, but there have been some concerns about dressage horses lately and maybe it was in that vain?

 

[Honey08]

A top level competitor (pro) often buys a shedload of youngsters with the right breeding for the job. They then train them up and start competing. Some make it, others don't. I have two friends that have ex competition horses, and they've clearly had their heads messed with - due to the pressure. One of these horses was almost grade A at the age of 5! A few months after my friend bought him, he threw his toys out of the cot big time, and its taken him two years to get back to beinga happy horse.

On the other hand, a good jumper really loves to jump. My mare was pulled up by the stewards on my first BE event of the season because she got so sweaty after her show jumping. They were worried she wasn't fit enough. It was all fizz because she was so fired up to be jumping again. She just lives to jump, and is a speed junkie - a XC monster! (They did realise she was fizzy not unfit, and let me carry on..)

Years ago I went on a XC training clinic when the horse was quite young. The advanced eventer that taught us asked me about buying her. I said I didn't want to sell, but I ought to perhaps - as the horse would go much further with him than me. He very kindly replied that the horse would have a much better life with me than she would with him.

So yes, at higher levels of competition, horses have much more pressure -physically as well as mentally. There is an old mare in the next field to my horses, and she is in her 30s. She was a brood mare. Now she lives on about 40 acres, living out all year, hardly touched. We were talking about her the other day, about how she never gets any ailments when out part-stabled, well-kept animals seem to get allsorts of things - saying its amazing she got to such a old age with so little care, but in reality she is the one that is living the stress free, natural lifestyle of a horse...

 

[Booboos]

I do agree with a lot of what you say and again I think turnout is very, very important, but just a little observation...the natural life of horses cannot be very stress free. They are flight animals that are predated, so I would imagine sharp reactions, the ability to get the body going at little notice and general nervousnes are natural characteristics that are useful for the horse. Stress, nervousness, pressure must be constant elements in the lives of wild horses.

 

[humblepie]

It is an interesting post as I sometimes think poor horses don't really want to be ridden and they don't care if they are top competition horse or seaside donkey, it is us who care.

That said my horse is a competition horse in a pro yard but in a relaxed happy yard without, I think, any undue pressure put on the horses. They go out in the field, though perhaps not as much as in an ideal world but they all have downtime and none of them have any stable vices and all hack out regularly. They are given time to develop and if they are not going to be superstars they go off to another lifestyle elsewhere such as pony club or hunting homes.

It may be different for different horses in different yards - I am sure there is a lot more pressure put upon some horses and I think we all have to accept that on the whole they would rather just be eating, as indeed would I.

 

[Booboos]

It is an interesting post as I sometimes think poor horses don't really want to be ridden and they don't care if they are top competition horse or seaside donkey, it is us who care.

I am not sure I entirely agree. OK horses don't have human ambitions, but a lot of them do enjoy the experience of being ridden and being competed.

Many of the things we do with horses require co-operation and just comliance. A Grade A SJ will have to want to be careful about poles, a **** eventer will have to be brave for himself he can't rely on his rider, a GP dressage horse has got to get some kind of enjoyment from performing otherwise it simply would not happen. I think they also enjoy the attention and the relationship with humans.

Horses that do not want to be ridden make this abundantly clear and usually cannot be ridden safely.

 

[MagicMelon]

I think it totally depends on the horse. Some horses seem to enjoy competing - I know mine seems to love going to shows, just standing about at the trailer munching hay and watching the horses doing their thing - he loves it. Im pretty sure he enjoys the competing part too! Whereas another horse I had hated it, it just wasnt his thing. I'd assume most horses would love sitting about doing nothing - but one of my old ponies hates it, he is actually pretty depressed about it... I cant find a rider for him though But when ridden it cheers him up for days!

 

[Orv]

My horse is a good example of what can happen when a horse is put under pressure . He was produced and ridden by pro event riders as a youngster, by the time he was 5 he was competing Novice and jumping Discovery & Newcomer tracks. He was fine being nursed around by pro riders, always being placed, he was then competed by amateur riders and he completely lost his nerve on the XC phase and started napping. I think it was a mixture of lack of confidence and too much at a young age, he isn't brave.

He was then sold on many times - he had 7 homes in 7 years, many people tried to "fix him" and ended up with me, a dressage home. He isn't a confident horse at all and was napping very badly out hacking - rearing, spinning, bronco act the lot! However he has always been happy in the school and will happily show jump around a 1m25 course and we compete in affiliated dressage Novice/Elem -working medium at home, just no XC

2 years on, I now have a horse that hacks alone nicely (90% of the time) he is much more confident horse, he is still a sensitive soul but does want to please. I have no desire to ride around a XC course, however I think he's now at the point where he would go and event again.