complete mistake in gifting a horse

J

Jaymarie

Active Member
Joined
6 September 2013
Messages
41
Location
West Midlands
Visit site
Ok so first post maybe ever?

But desperate for some advice as I am in such a pickle.

The story's a tad long and I may get a lot of negative opinions but please refrain from sharing them if they are not helpful.

I rescued a pony 2 years ago from a traveller who had her tethered and she had an awful recovering wound on her hind leg. I needed a companion for my gelding who at the time I had retired early due to diagnosis of liver failure (later re-diagnosed as an infection and recovered but won't go there). Anyhow felt sorry for her and ended up paying 100 pounds when she was probably worth 10.

A month later she gave birth to a filly, I had my suspicions 2 weeks prior. This meant she had actually been severely malnourished. Because she had given birth in front of my riggy gelding this caused them to be inseparable and a nightmare.

I kept the filly as she was this funny looking mongrel and we fell in love with her, feeling very responsible for her. Gelding went back to livery because he was well again, and bought little section a gelding as companion to surprise filly. Which left the rescue mare. She had recovered and was looking healthy, was only 5 years old and had new lease of life. However was only 14hh (too small for myself as 5'11). She also had rearing issue which I put down to mix of bad past and complex relationship with my gelding.

I decided best idea was to find her a home where she could be ridden as she seemed too young to waste with me. Advertised her carefully with honest ad for several weeks, free to good home as that way I could be picky. After many many people I found someone who I thought would be ideal. They seemed to love her and there set up was fantastic. I told them whilst a forever home would be nice, I understand that she is only 5 and if the time comes where they feel she should move on then that's fine but I would appreciate them contacting me first which they actually were happy about. We keep in regular contact and everything seemed great.

So this week I find an ad for the little mare. And it's not from the people I gave her to. I see this happen a lot but couldn't understand it as we were still in regular contact. So I contact advertiser. Lady seems nice says she bought her from my friend, was advertised for 300, knocked down to 50 during viewing because she came off 3 times trying her out! The ad mentions nothing of rescue past, nothing of huge scar/proud flesh on leg, and states only just started rearing. She wants 400 pounds.

So i go back to friend/previous owner. Ask her to spill the beans. She apologises for not telling me shed sold her but it had only been a week and it wasn't a planned sale. A week! Yes she did sell her to this lady and her friend for 50. Was selling because even after 500 pounds of schooling was still rearing and becoming dangerous (Lord help me). Yes the lady cane off 3 times during viewing (why anyone would buy/sell a horse under these circumstances I cannot fathom). The friend says she was dismayed to find the woman trying to make a quick buck and had hoped she was going to land on her feet. By the sounds they've had words.

So I tell the lady I would be happy to pay 100 for the mare right now. I don't tell her that I know she's only had it a week (even though in our phone call she claimed to have had her months and had her back and teeth checked, and also a behaviourist who told her to sell on). The lady says if she doesn't sell she will come back to me. Have enquired again and no answer this time.

So yes I realise they both have had every right to sell, she is after all their horse however I do find it dishonourable. I would like to have her back now. Having lost her filly last winter due to atypical myothopy who we loved VERY much it would be nice to have part of her back. Plus the mare clearly has much more deep rooted issues than initially thought. She can live out her days with me. But the horse is not particularly pretty bless (coloured trotter x cob) plus her blemish and her behaviour puts her so at risk to ending up in the wrong hands. So the advice I need is: do I stump up 400 pounds on a horse I've spent near enough a thousand on in the past and gave away in good faith? Or do I hold out on the mare not selling (which I can't see happening for 400) and hope she comes back to me on offer I made? Should I warn people about the dishonest ad? But by causing this drama I risk never hearing about her ever again.

Please any advice would be appreciated. Sorry it's long. I suspect I've left out even more details lol.
 
I am not a legal buff, but have heard of similar. Do you have a written agreement with the person you gave her to? If not, then I believe the pony is still yours?
I don't normally recommend lying, but this would at most be more like stretching the truth if that. You gave the pony on the understanding that you would be given first option to have her back. This did not happen therefore the 'verbal contract' you had was not met (I do know that verbal contracts are just as valid as written.
If you had a written agreement, or they paid even £1 for her (without tack or rug or anything), or you said in front of witnesses that they could do what they liked with her then this would not work. But it would be worth trying to claim her back with a formal letter saying the horse was sold without permission, that you are the real and legal owner, and that you were kind enough to offer money for her to save time etc. and because you felt sorry for the woman, but that now you just want your own property back.

It depends on your finances as to whether you pay - I think i would bite the bullet and just buy her; if she got a bad tear in the fence on a sunday (or a touch of colic or laminitis) then it could cost this much anyway and you wouldn't think of the money then. Perhaps get a friend to buy her for you but offer £300 or something. They wouldn't have to ride her as they could say they wanted to breed.
You could hold out for the mare not selling, but is the person going to be honest about the ponies problems? How would you feel if she was sold to a little kid who ended up having a very nasty accident?
 
This is going to sound harsh but
1. You didn't 'rescue' her; you bought her.
2. If she had so little value to you that you gave her away, you clearly didn't care much for her.
3. She was too small for you, with behavioural issues you didn't want to deal with when you gave her away. None of that has changed.
4. Don't breed from mares with uncertain temperaments - the UK is overstocked with low end cob types.
5. Stop 'rescuing' cheap horses then passing them on to an uncertain fate. Save up. Buy something you can handle and enjoy, then keep it for life or sell it for a decent price.
S :)
 
Last edited:
I don't feel you read my post fairly Shilasdair.

1 We can quibble over the difference between rescuing and buying a horse, the horse was in a bad way and travellers don't part with their animals for free.

2. I gave her away yes, after weeks of advertising her free to a loving home. If you sell a horse does that mean you do not care for it? I could not put a price on this horse, in the current market and for what she is, she needed to be free on my opinion as that was the only way I was going to find her a long term home that I could vet. I don't think you can draw a direct comparison between how much you charge for your horse and how much you cared for it.

3. She was too small yes. She had behavioural issues that needed exploring and I was unsure how much of those issues were related to the unhealthy obsession with my gelding. Now that it is clear that they are somewhat serious I feel I could offer her a companion home seeing as someone has tried and failed to make her a riding horse. I did not want to make a 5 year old horse a companion when she could have been potentially a happy hacker.

4. If you read the post she was pregnant when I purchased her. I have no intention if breeding anything, especially something as undesirable as this little mare.

5. Again lack of reading the post. I do not make a habit of rescuing horses and "passing them on". I have many horses that have life long homes with me. The point was that I thought this little mare would have a better quality of life at this lady's stables, as I did not want to make her a field ornament having seen such a change in her from a tired and underweight pregnant mare back to a young zesty horse.

Don't you think if I did not care I wouldn't be having this dilemma? Anyhow I knew I would receive judgment with this post despite not asking for it, but at least read my post properly. I'm asking what to do now. Not what I should/should not have done.

Thanks for advice wkiwi, I am looking into legal standings atm although it seems daft when I could just stump up and have it over with. But it also seems maddening to pay that much for a horse that we the verbal agreement was I would have first refusal in the future. I must be honest I'm concerned about her ending up in the wrong hands now I'm aware hee issues are worse than ever and like you say hurting anybody of any age! The lady I gifted her to is now also very concerned about the lack of disclosure in this girls ads.

So I'm guessing it's a case of cough up.
 
I did read your post carefully, and;
1. Travellers have more sense than to give their horses away for free. I am sick to death of hearing that people 'rescued' horses, which more often than not they try to pass on, having insufficient resources to look after the animal. It's an egotistical thing 'Aren't I great, I'm a horse rescuer' and duck all to do with the welfare of the animal.

2. A horse that has no value to you, is unlikely to be valued by another. Its the horse equivalent of throwing your horse away. And the sort of people who will take a free horse are idiots, opportunists looking to lie about it and sell on fast, or (possibly the best option) meat men.

3. The fact she was too small and you couldn't handle her were issues when you gave her away, what has changed? If you are concerned about paying £400 to buy her, then you can't afford her as a companion.

4. Excellent. Don't breed. I was concerned that your comments about missing her progeny implied plans to breed.

5. As I said in 3., to me you don't sound like this horse's best future. You let her down last time by giving her away, and may well do so again.

6. You can't put caveats on gifts - first refusals or anything else - so you have no legal rights at all in this situation.

Not what you want to hear, but the truth.
S :)
 
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on most of those points. I'm new here but a 5 minute look at the forums suggests your a troll by my standards and I don't need advice from a troll.
 
Jaymarie said:
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on most of those points. I'm new here but a 5 minute look at the forums suggests your a troll by my standards and I don't need advice from a troll.
Click to expand...

I'm a troll by your standards? I'm just pleased to hear you have some...:p

I took time to answer you for the sake of the horse, who I feel sorry for.
I do hope she strikes lucky and finds a good, caring home. I just don't think that's you at the present moment.
S :)
 
OP has stated that the mare can live out her days with her.

OP I suspect that you will have to pay.

But if she can stay with you as a non ridden companion then that sounds a really good option for her.
 
Op buy the mare back. You bought her originally in good faith. Some people are not honest or honourable. If you want to secure her future buy her back.She was lucky you bought her from the travellers in the first place,
 
It's a rotten situation OP, and I'm not surprised you're feeling that you and the mare have been treated unfairly.
But in the grand scheme of horse keeping, £400 isn't much; one vet's or feed bill.
She was indeed lucky to have been bought by you, and now it's apparent that being ridden isn't her thing a life as a companion sounds ideal
 
Unfortunately I don't think that you can hold the current owner responsible for the previous one not telling you they'd sold her - even if theu are being dishonest in their ad.
If you care for the mare and are willing to pay a lot more than her asking price to keep her for the rest of her days, I would think you should just buy her and have done with it. If you really care, I'm sure that's preferable to having her end up being passed on again and again.
 
Sadly this is an example of something that bears repeating again and again - if you sell or give away an animal you lose any form of control over its future.
Don't give away until and unless you are 100% certain the new owners will love it so much it is part of the family, and the best way to check that is permanent loan (you risk having to have it back at some point though) or LWVTB - during the loan period you cam make as many home visits as you like to check on the relationship between animal and owner. There are a lot of convincing people who will swear it is with them for life - however much you think you know them, don't take it at face value, put safeguards in place. When ownership does pass with any of mine I include a covenant that it is offered back to me in the event that they can no longer keep it. Not sure how enforceable it is outside of court action but so far people have abided by it.
Sorry OP, doesn't help you but my advice is buy it back if you can and then loan it with the usual safeguards
 
I'd feel responsible for the poor mare's predicament and buy her back, the danger is she will end up doing the rounds of the sale rings if a private buyer isn't found.

Nobody can guarantee a home for life, circumstances can change for anyone, but in the future if you don't want a horse with unresolvable issues then the kindest thing is probably to pts rather than passing on for free.
 
i would get a friend to act as a buyer asap, view her and offer 200 if they can take her there and then, i think the seller will be very reluctant to sell to because she will fear getting an earfull from you and would most likely dump the poor mare at auction rather than wait and see if a private home comes up
 
I've been in a sort of similar situation to this on two occasions - one where my loan horse was sold on to a dealer and spent the next year and a half being advertised by various dealers as not what he is and being passed from home to home.

The second occasion, me selling a horse and the home not being what they said on the tin. Despite the fact they've had the horse over 4 years, he is continously advertised every few months for sale or loan, always being out of work for '6 or 12 months' yet they never get back to anyone. I'm not sure if they just like the attention or what is with them!

He had some issues and at 6yo, I didn't want to write him off, so he was primarily sold as a companion.

Though he is still with them, I worry about where he'll end up eventually and in hindsight, rather think I should've had him put to sleep as new home isn't what they said they were.

Thankfully I managed to track my old loan horse (the first horse I mentioned) down at a dealer in a different part of the UK and I bought him back for a ridiculous amount, just to secure his future as I was worried he'd hurt someone (he'd already broken an experienced gentleman's ribs within two weeks of ownership, when he bolted out hunting -hence him ending up at the dealer I found him at).

The second horse, I think about him every single day! If there was a way to buy him back this second for a stupid over the top price, I would, no hesitation, as it's heartbreaking that they never get back to anyone or will sell him, despite numerous ads.

Anyway, I ramble.

My point is, life is too short to dwell on the what ifs and the regrets. The mare is now for sale, you have an opportunity to buy her.

Either get a friend to go and view her and buy on your behalf or just give the new owner the asking price, draw a line and know that you've got the pony back and she's safe with you.

I know if I had the opportunity to buy my chap back, I would, no matter what the cost was - but then, I'm daft and overemotional anyway. ;)
 
Last edited:
If it were me then I would pay the 400 immediately and just get her home. You like the mare and seem able to offer her a life of retirement. Get her back.
 
If they are local to you arrange to see her with £150 in your pocket, funny how quickly people will sell then. Well done for giving the mare a chance but I will say if you are unable to keep her for any reason and she is still unsafe either loan her out with a BHS loan agreement or send her to the big green field in the sky.
 
Not sure why OP is coming in for the HHO treatment - she acted in good faith. OP, I think the only way to put your mind at rest would be to buy the mare back and let her live out her days as a companion. A few hundred quid won't seem like a big deal a couple of years down the line.
 
Clean up your mess and buy the horse back .
Keep her if you wish or PTS at least the she can not be mistreated further .
Don't pass on horses with complex issues .
 
You did rescue the horse op why would anyone dispute that you paid to give her a better life. Lets get that point cleared up for a start. My lad a bought from a traveller he had been tethered and had a massive sore around his neck. He was 9 months old and in poor condition. Taking them away from a bad environment, owner, situation is rescuing them. Well done for that and you trusted a person.

I would do as the poster who said go see her with money in you pocket. . Don't tell them who you are and get her back x
 
Gosh, some people had a poor night sleep! Really.

I had very much the same experience, apart from the selling on bit. Rescued mare, foal, found home and so on and so forth. The foal I got was a super lad and is my horse of a life time. When the time came I did pass the mare on to a friend, I ensured she had the best chance possible, I found the best possible home and then stayed away. However I think in your shoes I would want to take the mare back and secure her future. You can keep her as a companion or pts, your choice. I would prob try the arrive with cash and lorry and call their bluff stance and see how it goes.
£400 would buy you a reasonable horse these days not a project. So I think they are hoping you interest means your desperate. Hold in there. Make your offer and stick to it.
Hope it works out.
 
Oh welcome to HHO. Sorry you received some truly unpleasant responses who you were asking for help and knew it was not an ideal situation. The keyboard warriors don't normally hit people quite so hard and so quickly.

If you have the money, offer the £125 cash saying you know the horses history, can collect and woman would still have made a profit.

What no one else is saying, is that if you had been truly uncaring, you would have ignored the ad when the mare came back up for sale...!
 
If you want her, buy her back. A few hundred quid either way in the purchase price is neither here nor there when you think about what you will be spending to give her a home for life, which is what you're going to do.
 
OP, I don't think you deserve some of the comments you've had on here - this is a difficult situation and being told you shouldn't have done x,y and z is not always helpful. There are a few things that strike me about your post:
- you are clearly a caring and well-meaning owner; I can understand why you did pass the mare on as she was too small for you to ride and it's reasonable to think that regular work and schooling could potentially make a difference
- I feel really sorry that you lost the filly through AM. You must have been devastated and I, for one, can understand why you would want the mare back as the mother of the your filly.
- you have become the victim of several dishonest people and this sort of thing drives me mad. I can't stand liars and there are too many around.

I disagree with the poster who implied that you are not the best owner for this mare - I actually think the opposite. Try the cash-in-hand thing as suggested. If that doesn't work, send someone else but do get the mare back. Only then will you be able to put all of this behind you.
 
I would get a friend to go and buy her back, or a partner or whatever, if they are going to be funny with you. That way you get her back and they don't get to avoid you.
 
Blurr said:
Gosh. Some people can be incredibly patronizing for no reason. Really.
Click to expand...

I just do not think that people should sit behind their keypads and judge! You are being a bit sensitive this morning. There was a reason for my comment , I was not being patronising I was being amused and slightly horrified that the HH welcoming party had struck so early. Maybe a smiley face will help;)
Wether or not people agree with the OPs actions she seems to have done her best for this horse and does not deserve a kicking, just some advice to help her make her decision. Because she could just have ignored that ad and let the little horse go to its fate. That in itself shows me that she is a good person.
Let's all lighten up and support her in true HHF style rather then bicker shall we.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top