Concept of 'Learn Together'

Marie1

Marie1

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In a horsey world where people over horsing themselves is rife, does the plan of a novice, buying a young green horse and 'learning together' ever work?

If it does work I'm sure the sense of achievement and the bond between horse/rider would be amazing, but I can also see it going horribly wrong!

Has anyone done this?
 
I've never seen really seen it work unless the horse was a fairly ploddy simple type. It's always ended up as a disaster with sharper types. I have seen a couple of people get there eventually, but a lot of confusion and trouble would have been saved if they'd gotten a suitable horse in the first place and i think they would have been better riders if they had have started on a more experienced horse. I have never seen it improve the bond between horse and rider, if anything it makes it worse as you have a young horse who is being given confusing or inconsistent aids. I don't think it's fair on a young horse to have someone on it who knows even less than it does.
 
Sort of :D We did not set out to buy a youngster for my OH when he could barely ride (had lessons at a RS, which was a start but doesn't make you a rider in three months!) however ended up with one - bought a four year-old, who actually turned out to be only three :D

It hasn't been all plain sailing but then what horse is and I've been there to do the schooling and help OH. They have got a tremendous bond and he's right for OH who only want to hack - yes, we could have something even better in traffic and a bit more of a plodder which would be the 'perfect' scenario for OH, but they rub along pretty well together and can manage any little incidents pretty well together.

I have seen other matches that have been disastrous too and feel lucky that our 'risk' paid off.
 
It depends on the support you have - all my ponies/horses have been youngsters apart from the pony that I learnt to ride on.
I had excellent support though from YO/friends/instructor.

It is very common here for people to have a schoolmaster first pony and then once outgrown straight onto a young pony (ie.5/6 that hasnt done much) and it also depends hugely on the temperament of pony/horse - none of mine were very sharp or nappy, just green mostly although they all had a buck in them! :)

Having good support is essential - i had someone on the ground any time i was riding pony who helped me. That way any bad habits were minimised.

I had one pony who spent one year getting eliminated at every ode, which taught me to sit back!! The next however (pony now 7) we won everything we entered and came 5th at pc champs eventing. It is definitely a longer way of learning but the sense of achievement is lovely and it makes you a very effective rider!!
Once effective then riding can be refined :)
 
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Nope! Green on green makes black and blue!

Even with a very tollerant youngster, they will be soaking up all of the bad things that you would accidently teach them as a novice rider. It will take both horse and rider so much longer to get to a decent level. There is bound to be the odd exception, but I would never recommend it.
 
I have. My experience was roughly just a year and a half long when I fell in love with an opinionated 5yo and bought him. He was greenbroke, could w/t/c, stop, do some groundwork and had a couple of minor health issues. He'd also be pushy, dominant, bite, nap and bolt. Rationally, I shouldn't have done that, yet it has been the best decision I've ever made! It's been a bumpy road at times, but we have really learned and grown together. However, I haven't been alone. I moved him to a yard with some very experienced and knowledgeable horse people, who are now my close friends, and took lessons with good trainers as well as absorbed every bit of information I got my hands on. Our bond is wonderful and he is really a horse like no others to me. He's now 7 and has matured into a wonderful companion, although he still isn't a beginners' horse - it's just that I'm not a mere beginner anymore. :D I think, we're on the bright side of such stories, but I've seen the bad cases as well, which made me sorry both for the owner and the horse.
 
I think that in all healthy partnerships, both horse and rider do learn together. They certainly don't need to be novice or green. After all, what horse or human has nothing to learn?

I don't believe that the novice who successfully grows with their green horse will necessarily have a stronger bond.
 
My first pony had never been rode and a trotter for 5 years before that but of course he was given to me so why not. Learnt very quickly having your own pony was not like going to a riding school for an hour each week. First year was me finding out that not all ponies are riding school ponies and him learning how to canter, second year was me learning how to sit MASSIVE bucks, bolts down main roads and the odd rear and no one else allowed to ride him, third year we were jumping 1.20m courses and everyone wanted a go on him:) Wish my mum never got rid of him, he was an amazing pony really taught me a lot, and shattered my confidence on more than one occasion though:p I think it worked for me, we really did learn together.
 
Marie1 said:
In a horsey world where people over horsing themselves is rife, does the plan of a novice, buying a young green horse and 'learning together' ever work?

If it does work I'm sure the sense of achievement and the bond between horse/rider would be amazing, but I can also see it going horribly wrong!

Has anyone done this?
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I hope so! I have a youngster and although I don't think I'd class myself as a novice as such, I would say I'm a bit rusty and not as confident as I was.

However, I know my limitations which is why I have enlisted professional help :-)
 
I can think of some situations where it works including myself where having been seriously knocked back by the very nasty and very expensive first horse my dad bought me he followed it up with a barely backed 4/5 yo from a meat sale in that case she was hot hot Anglo Arab and a complete star she look me to my BE novices despite making it up as I went along.
But I also think of plenty of cases where it ends in tears and the horse pays the majority of the price.
 
only_me said:
It depends on the support you have - all my ponies/horses have been youngsters apart from the pony that I learnt to ride on.
I had excellent support though from YO/friends/instructor.

It is very common here for people to have a schoolmaster first pony and then once outgrown straight onto a young pony (ie.5/6 that hasnt done much) and it also depends hugely on the temperament of pony/horse - none of mine were very sharp or nappy, just green mostly although they all had a buck in them! :)

Having good support is essential - i had someone on the ground any time i was riding pony who helped me. That way any bad habits were minimised.

I had one pony who spent one year getting eliminated at every ode, which taught me to sit back!! The next however (pony now 7) we won everything we entered and came 5th at pc champs eventing. It is definitely a longer way of learning but the sense of achievement is lovely and it makes you a very effective rider!!
Once effective then riding can be refined :)
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This.

It doesn't have to be a disaster if the horse is nice natured and the rider is sensible and gets good help. Where I usually see it most often go really, really wrong is when someone lets pride take over from good sense.
 
I was in my early 20s and hadn't ridden for 5 years when I bought an unbacked 4yo 3/4 TB. We did learn together (I had her professionally backed and then based her with my trainer and had 3 lessons a week) and I still have her 28 years later.
 
Well, it kind of worked for my daughter and her loan pony (she was 11, he was 5, she had been RS only for 2 years) but there was a lot of input and guidance from her owner

Didn't work so well with her first horse, a 3yo ex racer 6 weeks off the track, and my daughter wasn't too proud to ask for help, had loads of lessons, learned a lot, but beyond a certain point it never worked

Personally, I would never buy anything young again though we both often say if we had known then what we know now...but we didn't and that is that
 
My first pony wasn't mine as such, I was asked if I wanted to ride him for his owner. He had been dumped on her land as a foal, hand reared, broken at 5 and three weeks later I was on his back having ridden only riding school ponies. In some ways it was a disaster - he would buck me off soon as look at me and I probably wasn't the person to introduce him to new experiences. Anything new and he'd react by bucking and leaping so I'd just get off and lead him and get back on once he'd finished. I never gave up though and he taught me more in a year than I'd learnt in 3 years of lessons before. By the end he was going to local shows, pony club and was better in traffic than his 14 year old companion (whom I moved onto afterwards and had a huge amount of fun on for the next 14 years until he died) so we must have been good for each other! He's now 28 and a riding school pony teaching beginners.
 
As others have said it can work with the right help and back up. Aged 12 I quickly outgrew my first pony and my parents replaced him with a little horse in very poor condition, supposedly 4 and completely unschooled but their idea was that I wouldn't outgrow him too quickly. Initially I was totally out of my depth but with help we developed a great partnership doing all the PC area teams, some team chasing etc but mainly concentrating on show jumping (as his paces were not ideally what was required for dressage!). He went to Grade A and jumped some huge Area International Trial tracks with me as well as qualifying for several national finals on the way including the Foxhunter at HOYS. He really was my horse of a lifetime and I owe him so much.

My son has also had youngsters (5 or younger) from the start but with very careful supervision. All his ponies did well at PC level and the 148's jumped well in affiliated sj classes too. His horses have all been 5 or younger and they too have done well including one he produced to 2* eventing level. In an ideal world a school master would have been great but we couldn't afford one so had to choose promising youngsters. I appreciate without the right support it can go very wrong but as long as there is back up in place and the rider is prepared to take help it can also work well.
 
I think it probably depends on how you view a novice. If you are talking about someone who has hardly ridden, never been outside of an arena, never ridden a 'normal' (in the non-riding school sense type) horse then I think it would be difficult for them to make it work with a young/green horse, and not just in the riding sense but in the care side of things too. I'm not saying it couldn't work but I think the successful stories would be far outweighed by the ones that ended badly (for either the horse or rider).

If you class a novice as someone that has ridden for years but maybe lacks experience/not really ever had lessons then I do think it can work. I have ridden for years but am mainly self-taught and could still be classed as a novice due to the fact that I was a happy hacker for years (not that there's anything wrong with that!) and any schooling I have done was at the simplest level (basic walk, trot and canter).

I bought myself a second horse last year as my TB (who incidentally was my first horse straight out of training when I was 16!) was starting to slow up a bit. I had for the first time in my life become independent (transport wise) so was able to start thinking about competing. Having never set out to buy a horse or ever competed, I took a bit of a gamble when I decided to buy something fairly young for exactly the reason of wanting to 'learn together'. I felt there would be less pressure to compete at levels higher than I was ready for as I wouldn't always be comparing the horse to what it had already done. I bought a 5 year old ISH who was still green but had seen a little bit of the world. Exactly what I wanted.

It wasn't all plain sailing when she came home. The first six months I spent battling with her as she was extremely nappy and explosive to the point where I felt she was dangerous and really worried about what future there was for her. Thankfully we did eventually have a break through and since then we have come a long way together. We are still working on the basics schooling wise but I have a good instructor now that will hopefully guide me when it comes to stepping out of my comfort zone. It is more difficult as obviously I need to teach my mare things as I am only learning them myself but I am not in a hurry so can take my time to get it right.

Already we have done more then I have ever done with another horse and I can't believe how much I have actually enjoyed competing. I still don't feel we are 100% a team yet but we are definitely getting there and our bond is growing all the time. We are also having fun in the process which is what it's all about.
 
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I bought an 8yr old that was classed as suitable for a novice and while she kind of is i.e. she is relatively laid back and reliable she did turn out to be ALOT greener than I was told as it turns out she had only been backed less than 2 years before I bought her and hadn't done much since.

I am a novice but have enlisted the help of a very reputable trainer to help us "learn together" but it is tough going and some days I wish I had ended up with a horse that knew its job and could teach me but my girl is doing really well and we are coming along nicely together even if it is slowly!

Ps - I had a loan horse before buying my one who I just hacked with so had no real experience of schooling a horse properly. I had lessons at a riding school but it is totally different riding a non riding school horse I am sure you will agree so I have almost had to start right back at the beginning with the horse and me. My instructor has really taught me to look at myself before just blaming the horse which I have found really useful :)
 
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If you take 'Learn together' as meaning buying yourself a young/green horse & then being a novice yourself training & bringing on the horse on your own & learning together then I don't believe that it can work. For two parties to learn together one must know something to teach the other, if neither knows anything then it's a recipe for disaster. As one person has already said, green + green = black & blue.

Many have said that if the novice owner with a green horse uses a trainer/ instructor or friend who know what they are doing then it can work & I agree with this BUT that isn't 'Learn together' is it as it was originally meant is it? That's going to an instructor for lessons & then the horse & rider will learn & if the horse plays up then the instructor can get on & sort out things.
 
Absolute disaster for horse and rider in my experience (and worse for the poor horse). At least one of the two in the partnership has to be the schoolmaster, leading to the lovely old saying "Old horses for young riders; old riders for young horses". Unfortunately it doesn't often happen and so you have the blind leading the blind in far too many cases.
 
It does work!

Although I've been riding for nearly 20 years, until a few years ago I could only ride once a week. So while I was competent, I was certainly "green" at owning and riding a horse such as Ned.
He wasn't exactly young (I think he was 7) but he wasn't broken and know almost nothing, save from what the kind woman who had him before had taught him.

So, I think you can "learn together" as me and Ned learnt (and are still learning) together :)
 
As with most answers with horses - it depends totally on the individual. I was a rusty novice when I bought a yearling PBA. But he had the most lovely nature, cheeky, curious but no nasty bone in his body. We had good help along the way, and he's still with me having given 20 years of fun to myself and several sharers through those years, and is still doing so now! I do think that as a nervous rider, it helped that we spent our first few years together doing everything in-hand, walks out, shows etc. So when it came time to get on board, I knew exactly how he would react to various situations. We had a few little issues along the way, but worked through everything with good advice.
We also bought a green 5 yr old Andalusian for my then OH, who was a total novice. Again, the horse was a sweetie, although had his moments, and OH was very keen. He now works with horses in the TV/film industry!
But it wouldn't be something you could do with every horse/rider combination, I do think we were both pretty lucky, and also were willing to look for help.
 
I have seen it both ways, successful and disaster. There are a lot of variables in this situation. Temperament of horse/pony and willingness of rider to learn can make a difference. Some types of horse are more difficult to manage than others so are not suitable for a novice. A rider who will ask advice, read up on the subject and put themselves in the hands of a good instructor can succeed, if the horse is the right temperament as well.
 
Learning to improve a horse is as much part of being an equestrian as learning to sit on it well.

That's not to say that a nervous complete novice with no support and half a brain should get themselves a 2yo arab...

I will be helping my children to back a couple of NF colts over the coming year. The older girls have done it before, and could probably manage it without me this time (ponies are very willing). For the younger children it will be a new experience. We will all enjoy ourselves, and improve our horsemanship a little.
 
Well i started Shy myself, first time ever, and just with my hubbie and a couple of books to help. Yes, we have definitely learned together, I have learnt so much from him, and have learnt to listen to what he's telling me. I am very proud to have such a lovely pony, and that we did it together. Twee but true.
 
Shysmum said:
Well i started Shy myself, first time ever, and just with my hubbie and a couple of books to help. Yes, we have definitely learned together, I have learnt so much from him, and have learnt to listen to what he's telling me. I am very proud to have such a lovely pony, and that we did it together. Twee but true.[/QUOTABLE

You are a wonderful example to everyone, and Shy always seems to have such a lovely nature yet be great fun, still remember your picture of him holding a stick!
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When I broke my first pony to drive I'd never trained anything before, and learned everything I knew about driving from a book. He went beautifully - so well in fact that he went on to do RDA carriage driving.
Pretty good considering he was a complete fruit loop to ride :)

I've since broken a dozen or so horses to ride and drive - but we all have to start somewhere!
 
I think in order for it to work you have to be humble enough to learn from other people i.e. lessons every week so that bad habits don't have the chance to develop. My first pony was an unbroken 8 yr old who had previously been a broodmare and despite being opinionated and stroppy, she was very forgiving (I was only 10!) and I had some of the best years of my life on her. There are elements of her behaviour now that have been influenced/caused by me and my inexperience at the time but I'm never going to sell her so it doesn't really matter.
Ironically the Pony Club, who are meant to be far more knowledgeable than a 10 yr old were incredibly detrimental to her when she was learning and kept telling me she was 'being naughty' when I realise now she just didn't understand. We certainly learnt LOADS together though, even though it wasn't an ideal situation.
 
Adopter - thank you ! Yup we were out with the lab today, dog had a stick, Shy had a stick. He actually stops at the one he wants and insists hubs picks it up for him, then carries it around as long as Percy has his. I'm afraid Shy grew up with dogs and thinks he is one... :D
 
Seen it work but as someone said only with ploddy fraught forward type horses. Don't think it's the best idea for the majority tho....green horse + green rider = black & blue!
 
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