Concerned - Reporting a riding school/instructor?

[furtherafield]

Hi everyone, just looking for some advice please.

If I had concerns over the standard of instruction (I'm talking incredibly poor, borderline dangerous at times) at a riding school, would my best port of call be to contact the BHS? and is any complaint likely to be taken seriously?
The riding school itself is BHS approved and the instructor claims to be BHSAI.
I don't want to go into too much detail on here (hence new username) so hopefully this is enough info.

Thank you in advance for any responses

 

[Elbie]

If they are BHS approved I would contact them but I think also you can contact your council. If it were me I would contact BHS first and then they can advise if you need to contact council as well

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Report to BHS immediately giving your concerns in a concise way for instruction issues.
As Elbie says above, the local council also approves riding schools, so they would be a point of call, particularly so for animal welfare issues as well as H&S problems.

 

[Abby-Lou]

I would start with getting some evidence as it could be a case of your word against there's ie video what you consider dangerous from your mobile phone, dates times, conversations. Factual information so that you are not seen to have personal vendetta against the person.

 

[SaffronWelshDragon]

If BHS approved I would absolutely call the BHS first - they're very helpful

 

[Goldenstar]

I would be very careful of filming without permission especially if children are being taught .
But the BHS is where I would start .

 

[AdorableAlice]

If it is Worcestershire you need to be contacting me.

 

[BHS_official]

Hi, furtherafield. Everyone who has suggested you get in touch with us ASAP is spot on.

All of our Approved Centres are subject to regular unannounced inspections, and one of the conditions of BHS approval is naturally that centres continue to maintain the standards required. However, we know that things don't always go to plan in life and if this is the case, it's crucial we hear about it as soon as possible so any issue can be investigated properly and fairly to both sides and then rectified appropriately.

Please be assured that all complaints are dealt with fully and in complete confidence. To tell us about your concerns, please email us at approvals@bhs.org.uk or call 02476 840509 to speak to one of the team.

 

[furtherafield]

Thank you very much everyone, and thank you BHS_official for the contact details.
I will try to prepare a concise email to yourselves as currently I could write an essay about my concerns.
This is not something I ever really particularly wanted to do, but it is now getting to a point where the horse's welfare is declining and the likelihood of a more serious accident is a real concern

 

[heebiejeebies]

I hope you get a good end result furtherafield.

I have major concerns over horse welfare at two certain riding schools, both of which I have been employed at in the past so was seeing first hand what goes on 'behind the scenes'. Complaints have been made to both the BHS and the SSPCA in the past, but they both seem to get away with it, and I'm told it's because one owner is a fairly well known BHS examiner and the other apparently has high up connections with the SSPCA. Whether or not that's got anything to do with it I'm not sure, but the complaints (not just by me - by passing members of the public/other staff/clients etc) are never taken seriously, and if they were, the latter yard would most definitely be shut down!

Good luck with it.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Report to BHS immediately giving your concerns in a concise way for instruction issues.
As Elbie says above, the local council also approves riding schools, so they would be a point of call, particularly so for animal welfare issues as well as H&S problems.

It is possible but unlikely that LA would have anyone knowledgeable, the H&S inspector demanded removal of ground poles as they were "a tripping hazard" lol, [I was mounted]. For welfare, unlikely they would know a foal from a feral donkey, and they don't have building standards or know anything about drainage or ventilation.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

It is possible but unlikely that LA would have anyone knowledgeable, the H&S inspector demanded removal of ground poles as they were "a tripping hazard" lol, [I was mounted]. For welfare, unlikely they would know a foal from a feral donkey, and they don't have building standards or know anything about drainage or ventilation.

But they can (and do) go with a vet, so health issues can be dealt with properly

 

[AdorableAlice]

It is possible but unlikely that LA would have anyone knowledgeable, the H&S inspector demanded removal of ground poles as they were "a tripping hazard" lol, [I was mounted]. For welfare, unlikely they would know a foal from a feral donkey, and they don't have building standards or know anything about drainage or ventilation.

I can't disagree with you, but there is the odd Licensing Officer who will have extensive knowledge. The BHS will remove approval status and act on welfare issues but it is the LA that has the power to suspend or revoke the licence under the Riding Establishment Act and therefore force closure.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

But they can (and do) go with a vet, so health issues can be dealt with properly

LA don't take a vet as a matter of routine, so things would have to be desperate for them to take action, I used to inspect agricultural buildings and countersign grant approval, so the cattle and sheep had well built housing, and there must be standards in zoos, where the animals can turn round and the ventilation is adequate, no such legislation in the UK for horses, I fear. Management is 90% of the problem anyway.

 

[OWLIE185]

You can also contact your local BHS Welfare officer if there is a welfare issue. There is a BHS Welfare officer in each county

 

[Elbie]

LA don't take a vet as a matter of routine, so things would have to be desperate for them to take action.

This suprised me. I thought they took a vet as standard

 

[AdorableAlice]

LA don't take a vet as a matter of routine, so things would have to be desperate for them to take action, I used to inspect agricultural buildings and countersign grant approval, so the cattle and sheep had well built housing, and there must be standards in zoos, where the animals can turn round and the ventilation is adequate, no such legislation in the UK for horses, I fear. Management is 90% of the problem anyway.

I am sorry but you are wrong, The Riding Establishment Act clearly states that a suitably trained vet attends riding school inspections on an annual basis. That is statute law.

 

[kobi]

First of all its the instruction that you think is poor, then its the horse welfare thats the issue. If you are who I suspect you are then this will be taking your personal issues a big step too far.

 

[furtherafield]

First of all its the instruction that you think is poor, then its the horse welfare thats the issue. If you are who I suspect you are then this will be taking your personal issues a big step too far.

Hi kobi, I'm not sure who you think I am, but I think its unlikely as we appear to be from different areas.
The horses welfare is my main concern, as instruction could well be down to different interpretations of standards. I have since left the school as it is not for me.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I am sorry but you are wrong, The Riding Establishment Act clearly states that a suitably trained vet attends riding school inspections on an annual basis. That is statute law.

Well lets look at the evidence: I am in Scotland so not sure about exact legislation.
Here is my beef: when I went to a large horse riding place I saw a BHS sign,so assumed good standards. Turns out this only applies to RS. RS horses are kept in fields [in theory, they are not in the substandard housing].
Stabling is not to BHS standards, and for that reason [I assume] the livery is not BHS. I am experienced horse person, and rejected out out of hand the "cell" which they had vacant for a small pony[8x9 feet], no ventilation and no natural lighting, stable door did not allow small pony to see outside. Not impressed.
Roll on two/3 years: a new manager shows me a stable, 10 x12 but OK if only for sleeping in. No condensation. Assured horse would be isolated for 2 weeks and if no problem would be integrated. This was fine for him, but later this rule was abandoned and about half the horses got strangles.
Now there are only a few vets here, and all equine vets have clients here, but if a vet is appointed by the LA what is it that they do? .......... not housing , as this is sub standard, not drainage as this is substandard, not isolation as this is sub standard, so what is it that they inspect? Now I am not being frivolous, my horse suffered terribly due to negligence of both the RS staff and lack of control by LA. The "isolation paddock which was "vet approved" had running springs, ie waterlogged, and the shelter was in a dangerous condition.
I was at the yard every day twice a day, and had my coffee in the office, there never was nay mention of either the BHS inspection or of the LA inspection, but the H&S inspection caused three weeks of yard maintenance, because the inspector told them that he would not sign them off and this mean they would have no insurance.
My horse got an infectious disease which was controllable, really he was never the same again mentally, and obviously I lost about eight months to get him back to his former condition, not to mention vet bills and livery bills.......... about £2000.

 

[AdorableAlice]

I am getting a little confused by your post, you mention your horse and livery. The Riding Establishment Act governs horses and premise involved in 'hire and reward'. The Act provides legislation to protect the horses and the public, it does not cover any form of livery provision. The licensing of livery yards did get looked at but did not reach Assent through lack of time in the previous parliament, to my knowledge it has not been revisited by the present parliament.

I cannot comment on Scottish law, but in England all LA's are responsible for administering the Act and if the Premise is in the Midlands my name is very likely to be on the licence. Historically EHO's had responsibility for animal boarding, pet shop and riding school licensing but now is is administered by Licensing Officers.

 

[OWLIE185]

As I posted earlier contact the local BHS Welfare Officer who will be only to pleased to investigate this matter in total confidence. Phone up the BHS Head Quarters and they will advise you of the local Welfare Officers contact details.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I am getting a little confused by your post, you mention your horse and livery. The Riding Establishment Act governs horses and premise involved in 'hire and reward'. The Act provides legislation to protect the horses and the public, it does not cover any form of livery provision. The licensing of livery yards did get looked at but did not reach Assent through lack of time in the previous parliament, to my knowledge it has not been revisited by the present parliament.

I cannot comment on Scottish law, but in England all LA's are responsible for administering the Act and if the Premise is in the Midlands my name is very likely to be on the licence. Historically EHO's had responsibility for animal boarding, pet shop and riding school licensing but now is is administered by Licensing Officers.

I assume you are responding to my post Alice, I now know that the RS and livery are covered by different rules, but I did not know at the time, why should I? I walk in to an office to enquire about livery and see a BHS Certificate on the wall [a certificate re-newed every January with no inspection that I am aware of by the way].
As the RS ponies and horses are kept in the same general area, some RS horses use some of the stabling, does one not assume all stabling is up to standard?
Well the stables are too small, there is no natural lighting and there is no ventilation [some of them drip with condensation and the horse has to stand diagonally]
The drains clog frequently causing flooding, but the main drainage outlet is to an area the back of the stables which runs on to a grassy bank where horses gather, not in to a drainage ditch. It is not good sanitation.
I know this all in great detail because when we had the disease I was the only person who was able to access my yard and I had to deal with all the water we used for cleaning up, and also all the water coming from the higher yard, and also ensure all water was draining out of my yard. I also was the only person on the yard who had specific training in infectious disease control [Min of Ag Inspector, including F&M]. I also have experience of livestock building and design, having designed and inspected agricultural buildings for many years.
It is not rocket science, good drainage is essential to good hygiene, it is a basic requirement.
If you wan to see what the local vet considered to be "suitable isolation field" for my horse, I will email you a picture, standing in mud in on his own, for three months. The picture is take in mid summer.

 

[dibbin]

Well lets look at the evidence: I am in Scotland so not sure about exact legislation.
Here is my beef: when I went to a large horse riding place I saw a BHS sign,so assumed good standards. Turns out this only applies to RS. RS horses are kept in fields [in theory, they are not in the substandard housing].
Stabling is not to BHS standards, and for that reason [I assume] the livery is not BHS. I am experienced horse person, and rejected out out of hand the "cell" which they had vacant for a small pony[8x9 feet], no ventilation and no natural lighting, stable door did not allow small pony to see outside. Not impressed.
Roll on two/3 years: a new manager shows me a stable, 10 x12 but OK if only for sleeping in. No condensation. Assured horse would be isolated for 2 weeks and if no problem would be integrated. This was fine for him, but later this rule was abandoned and about half the horses got strangles.
Now there are only a few vets here, and all equine vets have clients here, but if a vet is appointed by the LA what is it that they do? .......... not housing , as this is sub standard, not drainage as this is substandard, not isolation as this is sub standard, so what is it that they inspect? Now I am not being frivolous, my horse suffered terribly due to negligence of both the RS staff and lack of control by LA. The "isolation paddock which was "vet approved" had running springs, ie waterlogged, and the shelter was in a dangerous condition.
I was at the yard every day twice a day, and had my coffee in the office, there never was nay mention of either the BHS inspection or of the LA inspection, but the H&S inspection caused three weeks of yard maintenance, because the inspector told them that he would not sign them off and this mean they would have no insurance.
My horse got an infectious disease which was controllable, really he was never the same again mentally, and obviously I lost about eight months to get him back to his former condition, not to mention vet bills and livery bills.......... about £2000.

MrsD123, I am getting seriously fed up of you spouting your cr*p on here to people who don't know anything but your version of events. The horse who (allegedly) brought strangles to the yard was owned by my sister. He passed a 5 stage vetting by an extremely experienced equine vet who noted nothing of concern. He WAS then isolated for 2 weeks - during which he displayed no symptoms of anything whatsoever. The outbreak was extremely well-managed by the staff and other liveries. The fact that your pony got a particularly bad case was unfortunate, and certainly not helped by your disregard for the isolation rules which eventually led to you being asked to leave the yard.

I was at that yard for 9 years, worked there for 5, and there was certainly a BHS inspection every year.

Sorry to hijack your post OP, but I'm completely sick of this woman and her ill-informed ranting.

 

[smellsofhorse]

MrsD123, I am getting seriously fed up of you spouting your cr*p on here to people who don't know anything but your version of events. The horse who (allegedly) brought strangles to the yard was owned by my sister. He passed a 5 stage vetting by an extremely experienced equine vet who noted nothing of concern. He WAS then isolated for 2 weeks - during which he displayed no symptoms of anything whatsoever. The outbreak was extremely well-managed by the staff and other liveries. The fact that your pony got a particularly bad case was unfortunate, and certainly not helped by your disregard for the isolation rules which eventually led to you being asked to leave the yard.

I was at that yard for 9 years, worked there for 5, and there was certainly a BHS inspection every year.

Sorry to hijack your post OP, but I'm completely sick of this woman and her ill-informed ranting.

I don't know any thing of MrsDs situation and am not taking sides, but she does seems to have a serious chip.

MrsD calm down!

 

[EstherYoung]

OP, I reported a riding school to the council once, following some very bad welfare/safety issues I saw on holiday. I wasn't expecting anything to come of it, as I wasn't in my local area, but the council wrote back to me firstly saying that they'd been round as a result of my letter and had issued notice to improve, and they wrote again after they'd been round to check on progress to tell me there had been a significant improvement and that they would keep the situation under review. So sometimes the system does work.

 

[charlie76]

Riding schools are inspected by the BHS every two yrs, if they are a where to train centre its every year,once for the where to train and then the general inspection. Only on the where to train do they see lessons in progress and horses ridden. The BHS inspection at the yard I ran was basically done by way of a check list which the inspector ticked off whilst sat in the office, in the ten years I worked there he never actually looked round more than once, the same man came every year and he just took our word for it! I kept the place to a high standard but I can see why other things slip through the net at bad establishment s ( and if the BHS want to ask me the name of the inspector and yard I would be happy to say in confidence) .
LA inspection does involve a vet where they check soundness, heart and eyes, however, I know of places that conceal horses and this is never checked.
They also check the fields and facilities although only on site fields,, they can be stood in crap a few yards up the road!
They also check tack, first aid kits, feed quality etc.
They don't check quality of staff or see horses ridden.
So IMO the whole thing needs tightening up.

 

[LaMooch]

They also check tack, first aid kits, feed quality etc.
They don't check quality of staff or see horses ridden.
So IMO the whole thing needs tightening up.

Fully agree.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Agree, the system needs a major overhaul and I think all Rs should be thoroughly inspected by the BHS and should by law have to be BHS approved.

 

[AdorableAlice]

Agree, the system needs a major overhaul and I think all Rs should be thoroughly inspected by the BHS and should by law have to be BHS approved.

You are right, but the BHS does not have any enforcement powers, yes they can lift approval but it will remain with the licensing authority to enforce malpractice issues.