Confidence on two different horses

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soloequestrian

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I have a younger horse who I've backed myself. She is 6, we are taking things very slowly so still working gently in the school. She is very green for her age but calm and willing the majority of the time (killer sheep have appeared in the field next door this week and she gets a bit worried about them if they are close by). I've had her since she was 6 months old so in theory I know her inside out. I'm struggling to get the confidence to take her hacking.
I also have a slightly older project horse. He was hacked out a bit when he was younger but then for various reasons had 2 years off before I bought him a few months ago. I don't know if he was ever hacked alone. I've had him out hacking a few times - the first time he tried to spin to head home multiple times. I just dealt with it (mainly by pointing him in the right direction and ignoring everything else). Second time he tried to go backwards instead of spin, ditto dealing with it. Next time we just had some spooky stops but no reversing and then today we had a nice hack with no naughtiness, little bit on his toes at the start but relaxed and stretching by the end. I'm happy doing all of this even though I have very little idea of his history.
How on earth do I transfer the confidence I have on him to doing new things with my younger horse?? It's really frustrating me - with him I feel I can deal with whatever he chooses to throw at me. I've been like this with a number of project horses in the past too. She has never really tried to throw anything at me at all and yet I have The Fear that she will do something stupid and I won't be able to deal with it. Help!
 
I think you're dealing with the thought that you might muck her up, whereas the project horse may have already been mucked up so you have to sort whatever quirks he throws at you to produce a respectable member of society.

She needs to be a well rounded individual to succeed in life, do you have a foot soldier that can come out with you? Maybe a dog walker who will meander around but give her a little confidence.
 
I'm helping a lady with a similar issue currently.
She has a nice 4 year old who she has just hit a bit of a wall with and become a bit nervous of - mostly in as much as now she would like a little more she's worried about what reaction she'll get.
She was also worried about getting it wrong and making mistakes, but by being cautious the horse had developed a bit of a nap, which she then didn't have the confidence to push through.
I'm riding the horse a few times a week, specifically to put the horse through new scenarios to test if/what she'll do in reaction to them. In seeing that she does diddly squat (and no napping either!) the owner is feeling more confident in doing these things herself.
(Nothing too physically strenuous- things like hacking out alone or with a different hacking buddy or in the awful gales last week)

Could it be similar with yourself perhaps, if so can you get a bit of help in?
 
It could be one of the above, but I have also noticed that I can be quite confident on a frisky horse, or not, and often the ones I was not confident on turn out to have a physical issue. So, I am not confident on a horse that is feeling pain.

One client's horse felt sound, and I was confident on the left rein, but he scared the pants off me on the right rein. 6 months later he was lame on the right rein.
 
Thanks for the replies.
It's not a physical issue - she isn't frisky to ride, the older gelding is much more likely to frisk. That's part of my frustration - she is great to ride and the tiny hacks I have done (just along one side of a stubble field) have been fine. I've not been out without a minder on foot or on a bike and it does help to give her confidence. The thing I'd really like to be able to change is my own mental attitude - I need to be able to ride her the same way I ride him.
 
I’m a lot more nervous on my mare I’ve brought on than other horses. I’m terrified of doing something wrong and undoing our hard work so far or inadvertently getting into a bad habit.
 
I think that if you mentally label them as "young" or "project" you allow them to get away with things you wouldn't allow an older/more established horse to get away with.
You need to ride the horse you are on, not the one you are imagining. For example, if an older horse spooks at a plastic bag, you just sit up, say "silly old sod - get on with it". On a younger/project horse, you immediately think, "oh, they have never seen that before", you pat them, make a fuss, which then reiterates in the horses brain "that was something to worry about".
It's difficult to change your thinking, but, unless the younger horse shows signs of behaviour you can't sit, you need to think "get on with it".
 
soloequestrian said:
Thanks for the replies.
It's not a physical issue - she isn't frisky to ride, the older gelding is much more likely to frisk. That's part of my frustration - she is great to ride and the tiny hacks I have done (just along one side of a stubble field) have been fine. I've not been out without a minder on foot or on a bike and it does help to give her confidence. The thing I'd really like to be able to change is my own mental attitude - I need to be able to ride her the same way I ride him.
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Hi, that is why I gave the example of the horse who gave a different feel one side to the other. On the face of it, the horse went the same both sides. But, one side I was happy on the horse and the other I simply had the heebie Jeebies. At the time I was full time employed training young horses, plus had my own business training others, so I was not taken the getting nervous at the drop of a hat.

The horse simply gave a bad feel. The owner had the vet check then and there, but it was 6 months later before there was an identifiable issue (hock). Some horses are very stoic.

Sometimes it could simply be a saddle issue. My horse Jay Man came to be with an awful reputation. He could be quite good then suddenly explosive, which changed when I changed the saddle. All the saddles supposedly fitted, but he liked the Barrie Swain Semiflex. His schooling advanced 6 months in 20 minutes. His whole 'feel' changed from edgy to happy. The explosions had been rare, but he did have an edgy feel even when he was behaving well, until the saddle change.

One horse I rode for an owner gave me severe heebie jeebies one day, again that was on one rein, but this one did feel different on the 'bad' rein, although he did nothing wrong, he felt fractious on one rein and not on the other. I took his word for it, as it was unusual for me to get that feeling on this horse, so took him in. A few minutes after untacking he did the biggest, longest fart you ever did hear. It went on consistently for about 3 minutes, no stopping! Poor horse had trapped wind!

So, if ever I have an unexplained edgy feel on a horse, I suspect there may be an issue somewhere.
 
I'm in a similar situation to OP, but the other way round!

My little youngster (6yo) whose been with me since she was backed at 4, is actually an easier ride - and if I'm honest I'm way more confident riding her - than my "project" mare of 7, who should be much further along, but basically, just isn't. I was told about some of her issues and the major one, I believe, sprang from a pain issue, which we had to sort before we could even get her alongside the mounting block. However she is bombproof in traffic and isn't phased by whatever we meet on the roads. There is a bitting issue with her which still isn't sorted, vet has looked at teeth and we're still experimenting with what suits her best.

She tends to toss her head around; and seemed very itchy with her front legs - so while the vet was here sedating for teeth, we got the clippers and took off all her feathers. She's a hairy cob so there was lots of it. Touch-wood, we hacked out over the weekend and both horses got hot, but we didn't see her fuss with her legs once, and neither did we have any headshaking or stuff. So fingers X'd.

I love the older mare to bits, and do trust her; but I seem to have a greater "bond" with little'un. Think possibly because we've come such a long way together.
 
Well even if there isn't an obvious solution perhaps just talking about it is helping - I felt quite brave on her today and did some new stuff even though the killer sheep were clearly plotting something dastardly. We both ignored them apart from one small snort (her not me). I think him having been so good yesterday helped too - it's only taken him four hacks to get quite relaxed and for me to enjoy most of it rather than being on constant alert. And we finally have some nice weather yay!
 
sounds good.
I'm a bit the opposite way round with my 2, the one I have known the longest is the one who is quite a tricky ride but I feel very brave on, and my newer project is generally not *so* difficult but I've struggled to stay as positive myself, partly because the previous project really battered my confidence with her explosions.
I find it helps me to kind of dare myself to do things, especially if I've shared my dare with someone else! Silly little things like daring myself to ride through a dressage test which forces us to address the scary bit of the arena was the latest one ;) it takes a small leap of faith but then pays off because I haven't overfaced either of us.

Maybe you need a thread where we are your accountability and support group?
 
I always go through this with young / new horses and I've discovered it's worse the better behaved they are. I find that if a horse is a twit, I may not enjoy it, but I gain confidence from having survived it, and from knowing how they react when they're being a twit. If a horse is good, I spend half my time wondering what they'll do when they finally do encounter something scary / get wound up about something. It's irrational, but I'm an idiot. I'm also more afraid of becoming afraid of my horses than I am of them actually doing something Go figure :rolleyes:

Like MP, I'm a big fan of daring and bullying myself into things, and if I've told someone else, there's no way I'm backing out.
 
JFTDWS said:
I always go through this with young / new horses and I've discovered it's worse the better behaved they are. I find that if a horse is a twit, I may not enjoy it, but I gain confidence from having survived it, and from knowing how they react when they're being a twit. If a horse is good, I spend half my time wondering what they'll do when they finally do encounter something scary / get wound up about something. It's irrational, but I'm an idiot. I'm also more afraid of becoming afraid of my horses than I am of them actually doing something Go figure :rolleyes:

Like MP, I'm a big fan of daring and bullying myself into things, and if I've told someone else, there's no way I'm backing out.
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I agree with all of this post but the positivity-training I've drummed into myself can not condone bullying yourself! :p
I think a dare is more of a positive thing ;)

coping with and surviving a problem is definitely a weird kind of confidence booster, but it works.
 
milliepops said:
I agree with all of this post but the positivity-training I've drummed into myself can not condone bullying yourself! :p
I think a dare is more of a positive thing ;)

coping with and surviving a problem is definitely a weird kind of confidence booster, but it works.
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I came into this year thinking "Positive mental attitude... be nicer to yourself about the things you get right... be less annoyingly negative about life". It's been all of 3 weeks and I'm already being pulled up for failure on this, which is vaguely ironic, really...
 
JFTDWS said:
I find that if a horse is a twit, I may not enjoy it, but I gain confidence from having survived it, and from knowing how they react when they're being a twit. If a horse is good, I spend half my time wondering what they'll do when they finally do encounter something scary / get wound up about something. It's irrational, but I'm an idiot. I'm also more afraid of becoming afraid of my horses than I am of them actually doing something
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This is totally what I'm doing - she's always been well behaved so I have no idea what she would do if she wasn't. At least with the project he has been naughty, I know what he's likely to do and know I can cope with it. I've also always been bad for the last sentence!
 
I think psychologically it is comforting to know what the worst thing a horse is likely to throw at you is. Until they've done something naughty you don't have a clue what their go to reaction is (bugger off, airs above the ground, or just a mannerly snort..) so you are left imagining the worst...
 
No idea why you are less confident on one than the other particularly, but horses do all feel different and I find some naturally feel "safer" than others to me. I don't think it has anything to do with their actual safeness ie how they behave, but more to do with how comfortable and secure you feel riding them which is more of a physical feeling than a mental one, but if I feel less physically secure then I feel less safe regardless of how the horse behaves. On a practical front. Are you hacking alone? If so, would it make sense to find someone else to hack with, even if you have to pay them? If you could find someone confident to ride your youngster and you go on the other a few times, both will probably hack better and you will have the opportunity to see how your youngster actually behaves, and hopefully see there is nothing to worry about.
 
Broodle said:
I think psychologically it is comforting to know what the worst thing a horse is likely to throw at you is. Until they've done something naughty you don't have a clue what their go to reaction is (bugger off, airs above the ground, or just a mannerly snort..) so you are left imagining the worst...
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I think this is definitely true. although it's horrible at the time it's definitely more comfortable when you've got to the bottom of them and lived to tell the tale ;)
 
Thanks, lots of good ideas here. It's always in the back of my mind to look for more help but it's difficult where I am to find anyone so if I can solve this myself with the resources I currently have it would be great.
The security thing: I do feel a bit more perched on her than him. She is big and flat-backed. I have her in a HM Flexee saddle because she is difficult to fit. I like the saddle but I definitely sit up and off her a bit more than on him - he has my old Balance saddle that I've used for many years and feel very at home in. He is also smaller and has a slightly dipped back so I sit much more in to him - less good for him physically but makes me feel more secure (I am working to strengthen his back, not to keep him like this!!).
Knowing what she will do: I suppose I can learn from how she is on the long reins. A couple of times she has spun, which is very difficult to deal with on long reins but probably easier from the saddle. It certainly is on the boy, although my old retired horse had a spin that would tip me out the side door almost every time (I think he dropped a shoulder).

I'm always a bit wary of asking for help on here because threads can go negative very quickly but this one has been very positive so thank you all.
 
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