Conformation & Stride Length

[Myotto]

Hi. I have a 10 year old Belgian warmblood gelding that I bought 3 years ago to do some dressage on.

He is a nice enough mover but he is a bit short striding, particularly behind. He was fully vetted when I bought him, and he's had lots of vet and physio checks, and a professionally fitted Fairfax saddle since I've had him, so we don't think it's due to a physical/pain/tack issue. He is also the same when ridden by a professional.

He does have a mild hock arthritis which is medicated when needed and the only other problem he has is EMS and an extremely sensitive gut. He's a very laid back horse to ride and the general conclusion is that it's just him and how he's put together. He comes from very good jumping lines (Parco) and that was his main job until he was 7.

I just wondered if anyone had any similar experience. I've attached a picture of him from the side.

Please be kind. I'm looking for people's thoughts not a critique of my beautiful, beloved horse!

 

[AmyMay]

He’s absolutely gorgeous. But I guess even the most well put together horse won’t always have the stride that we desire.

Although, (unless it’s the way he’s stood up) he’s quite straight through the hocks, so wouldn’t naturally be a big mover.

 

[ycbm]

He is very lovely. Has he had scans of his suspensory ligaments, a check of his SI function or x rays of his back feet?

It's very difficult to make suggestions having been asked not to critique him, but he does have some things about him that would make me want to run those checks if they haven't already been done.
.

 

[expanding_horizon]

He is very lovely. Has he had scans of his suspensory ligaments, a check of his SI function or x rays of his back feet?
.

Three good suggestions. How out of interest would you (or rather the vet) check SI function. Aside from internal ultrasound I’d understood diagnostics on SI area pretty difficult.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Agree with Amymay and YCBM he is a bit straight through the hock and quite often with hock arthritis they can get suspensory damage then because of what's going on behind the si joint can become sore.

I know because my horse has hock arthritis and suspensory damage and his canter was poor as in no impulsion choppy and just not right, so my vet treated the hocks and suspensories and medicated the si joint because of his symptoms.

So it's all definitely worth checking.

 

[ycbm]

Three good suggestions. How out of interest would you (or rather the vet) check SI function. Aside from internal ultrasound I’d understood diagnostics on SI area pretty difficult.

They can scan to a limited extent, but the first bit is a reflex reaction to pressing a place on their bum that causes them to rock their pelvis and either reduced movement or resentment of the action can give some clues.

I personally think the biggest clue is when the horse is in the right work to create the right muscle, but the tuber sacrale are either of different heights or they are clearly the highest point on the horses bottom. Often brushed aside as "jumpers rump/bump"

 

[ITPersonnage]

I think he's lovely too, but then I would I've got a mirror image including the black spots on (her) back feet. Her walk is a bit disappointing too but she's still jumping, at 7 she maybe has a touch more angle in her hind legs but really similar !! Will be interesting to see what you find out.

 

[Myotto]

He’s absolutely gorgeous. But I guess even the most well put together horse won’t always have the stride that we desire.

Although, (unless it’s the way he’s stood up) he’s quite straight through the hocks, so wouldn’t naturally be a big mover.

That was my thought too.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I agree with those above. His straight back legs won't make him be the biggest of movers and there's nothing you can do about that. It's just the way he is built. It certainly wouldn't top him being lovely, fun, well rounded horse though.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Two other thoughts, (though I think I would start with foot balance x-rays all round to look for NPA as suggested above)

1) Does his stride get longer just after his hock injections?
2) Have you tried a bute trial (decent amount of bute twice a day for a week) and see if his movement / stride length changes?

 

[Myotto]

I agree with those above. His straight back legs won't make him be the biggest of movers and there's nothing you can do about that. It's just the way he is built. It certainly wouldn't top him being lovely, fun, well rounded horse though.

Totally agree. He has had almost every nerve block going and nothing changed his movement.

 

[Myotto]

Two other thoughts, (though I think I would start with foot balance x-rays all round to look for NPA as suggested above)

1) Does his stride get longer just after his hock injections?
2) Have you tried a bute trial (decent amount of bute twice a day for a week) and see if his movement / stride length changes?

His stride length doesn’t really change after injections but he feels more comfortable. He’s had almost every joint nerve blocked and that doesn’t change it either. I avoid Bute etc if possible due to his gut sensitivity.

 

[Cortez]

Has he ever moved in the way you want him to? If the answer is no, then I think you need to just accept that he's not an extravagant mover. Perfectly nice horse.

 

[expanding_horizon]

Is he happy in his work? Does he school willingly? When he is checked by the physio does she find him sore? Do you think there is something underlying? Or just the way he moves?

 

[Myotto]

Has he ever moved in the way you want him to? If the answer is no, then I think you need to just accept that he's not an extravagant mover. Perfectly nice horse.

Not really. I knew it when I bought him and the vet could find no physical cause for the limited stride. He said ‘I’m confident it’s just him’. There’s so much more to love about him so I don’t mind as long as it’s not pain related. Physio found no signs of pain a few weeks ago and Osteo coming out this week.

 

[ihatework]

If he goes willingly forwards, ears pricked enjoying his work then I wouldn’t be concerned. If he is idle or grumpy about work then I’d play around with his management, feed him for his metabolic issues but also try working him a bit more and slimming him down a bit. Still an issue then get vet involved.

 

[Myotto]

Is he happy in his work? Does he school willingly? When he is checked by the physio does she find him sore? Do you think there is something underlying? Or just the way he moves?

Yep, he’s pretty happy. Physio found no signs of pain a few weeks ago, despite him having an abscess burst out of his front heel bulb the week before which damaged the coronary band. I’ll see what the osteo says. He doesn’t bunny hop, switch legs, strike off incorrectly in canter etc.

 

[Myotto]

If he goes willingly forwards, ears pricked enjoying his work then I wouldn’t be concerned. If he is idle or grumpy about work then I’d play around with his management, feed him for his metabolic issues but also try working him a bit more and slimming him down a bit. Still an issue then get vet involved.

He’s on an ems diet and his weight is good. Grazing in the morning only, soaked hay, Thunderbrook mash and Synergy balancer and salt.

 

[LEC]

I would speak to your farrier - he looks camped under in that photo and to me that can be solved and then help a lot of other issues with a change in shoeing.

Firstly, I would check over a week how often he is camped under behind. Make him stand properly square and see if he can do it or keep an eye when you see him about what position he puts himself in for comfort. If it’s just a one off in that photo then I wouldn’t do anything. But if he does…

I would then look at getting hind feet x rays to check his alignment and whether it can be improved. It’s hard to see his feet and heel in that photo to comment further on things that I would look at but the stance normally says a lot.

My caveat is not all farriers are forward thinking so you do need a farrier who is modern, forward thinking and very aware of negative plantar angles. A lot of farriers will palm you off and see it as a criticism of their work.

 

[Cortez]

Not really. I knew it when I bought him and the vet could find no physical cause for the limited stride. He said ‘I’m confident it’s just him’. There’s so much more to love about him so I don’t mind as long as it’s not pain related. Physio found no signs of pain a few weeks ago and Osteo coming out this week.

Then what is the problem? It seems to me that you're expending an awful lot of time, effort, angst and money for nothing. The local practitioners must love you

ETA: I used to breed dressage horses, and I can tell you that if they ain't got it, they just ain't (and I've never been otherwise surprised either).

 

[expanding_horizon]

Then what is the problem? It seems to me that you're expending an awful lot of time, effort, angst and money for nothing. The local practitioners must love you

ETA: I used to breed dressage horses, and I can tell you that if they ain't got it, they just ain't (and I've never been otherwise surprised either).

As in some horses dont have the hind leg power / push from behind to be good dressage horses?

 

[Cortez]

As in some horses dont have the hind leg power / push from behind to be good dressage horses?

They don't have the angulation (i.e. conformation, be it of limbs, shoulders, joints, back, whatever), flexibility (these days, hyper-flexibility), or in some/many cases just the plain ambition to be able to move the way we want them to. You cannot "make" a horse do things it's not capable of, and sometimes they just are not Ferraris. Your horse is a perfectly nice horse, but if I was looking to buy for serious dressage competition he wouldn't be at the top of my list. If that's what you want to do then I would suggest looking for something designed for that job.

 

[05jackd]

I think he's just 'what he is'. Like you say he's a great fun horse but he's just not an extravagant mover. I knew a horse quite similar in stamp that was the same. His stride always just looked on the short side for the size of horse but it was just him.

It would be interesting to see if you could find videos of him as a young horse to see if he was the same then.

Think of it like watching a gypsy cob do high level dressage. The moves may not be WOW as they don't have the reach and stride of Everdale or Valegro but it doesn't mean they can't do a perfectly correct test. Your guy is perfect as he is.

 

[blitznbobs]

just as some people aren’t built for running, some horses aren’t naturally dressage horses, the big movement is bred in and that is why dressage lines are dressage lines and jumping lines are jumping lines. Breeding of course will throw up an occasional outlier but a horse with hock arthritis and straight hocks is never going to have the power that a horse without issues and more bend and a naturally more flamboyant way of going is, he is lovely, but if you want the big movement then that is what you have to buy. I have 4 dressage youngsters in my field atm, all have super breeding , all have a big way of going and only one is REALLY special… the other 3 move nice but one has serious charisma… it is there from day one … you can train a lot in but you can’t change who they are.

 

[tristar]

he is standing well under himself on that photo, does he normally do that,? i see him as very straight in the hindleg, i once had a horse with straight hinds and he was one of the best movers for dressage and won a lot

has he any dressage blood?

i must say i do have a horse that seemed very ordinary at one stage, he became a different horse as his schooling progressed and is now spectacular

 

[tristar]

i have a gypsy cob, well half bred cob and i think he is spectacular,,,,,,,,,,, mainly because he moves correctly, [and well]

 

[humblepie]

How does he get on with pole work, if you have poles at his comfortable stride and then widen them a little? He is lovely and very smart looking boy.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Without seeing him move, it's very hard to comment and one picture is just that although I do agree he's a bit camped under (could be the gut sensitivity).
He looks a lovely chap.

 

[Myotto]

They don't have the angulation (i.e. conformation, be it of limbs, shoulders, joints, back, whatever), flexibility (these days, hyper-flexibility), or in some/many cases just the plain ambition to be able to move the way we want them to. You cannot "make" a horse do things it's not capable of, and sometimes they just are not Ferraris. Your horse is a perfectly nice horse, but if I was looking to buy for serious dressage competition he wouldn't be at the top of my list. If that's what you want to do then I would suggest looking for something designed for that job.

Im not looking for a top dressage horse and Im not disappointed because of his movement but I think it’s right to do what I can to be sure there isn’t a physical problem. It’s too easy to overlook things and cause a horse to suffer unnecessarily.

 

[Myotto]

i have a gypsy cob, well half bred cob and i think he is spectacular,,,,,,,,,,, mainly because he moves correctly, [and well]

he is standing well under himself on that photo, does he normally do that,? i see him as very straight in the hindleg, i once had a horse with straight hinds and he was one of the best movers for dressage and won a lot

has he any dressage blood?

i must say i do have a horse that seemed very ordinary at one stage, he became a different horse as his schooling progressed and is now spectacular

he is very well bred for jumping. His movement has improved dramatically since I got him, especially behind, and continues to improve. His lateral work is really coming on. If he’s always going to be a bit limited then that’s fine as long as it isnt pain related.