Contact? Does anyone teach it?

[Pigeon]

I agree, I think it's the riders we need to look at, rather than the schools. So many don't have any inclination to better themselves, and there's a lack of self discipline. No-stirrups work is painful and not particularly thrilling, but you're doing it for the long term, not instant gratification!

It's the same as all the people who buy horses without even understanding BASIC horse care. Even 15 minutes of reading on google would stand them in better stead.

I've had hardly any lessons, maybe three or four a year? And yet I know more than lots of riders I've met, just because I try and read a bit and am strict with myself about not doing stuff I know isn't right. Dressage isn't easy but I think it's worth taking the time to do it right. I may be jaded from reading the horsey fb groups lol.

 

[Pippity]

I've just started with a new instructor and she spent the first twenty minutes or so physically helping me into the right position - little bit of massage to help me relax the right muscles, techniques to help me get sitting properly on my seatbones in the deepest part of the saddle, exercises to help me stay there. (The horse loved it. A lesson where she mostly had to stand there and occasionally be patted? Awesome!)

This is after two years of weekly private lessons at a riding school, where I knew I wasn't quite right but couldn't figure out how to fix it and my instructors either couldn't figure out how to explain it or couldn't be bothered.

My problem has never been being too harsh with my hands. I tend to go more to the opposite extreme and have barely any contact at all, but with my tweaked position, I found it far easier to maintain a contact without feeling I was being heavy-handed. (And as this horse tends to get spooky without a steady contact, I *really* needed to learn that.)

The difference in the horse was immediately noticeable - she's over-tracking for the first time in the six weeks I've been riding her, I can easily get variations within the gait, her transitions in general are sharper, she's working far less flat than she has been, and she doesn't have even the slightest hint of the giraffe about her!

So *some* people evidently teach these things. But they're sadly few and far between.

 

[viola]

I think you have to look at the aspirations of the rider before blaming yourself.
If they only really believe they will ever do lower level comps then they may well think that as long as they can do that and get the results then all is well. Those riders who have set their goals high will probably be more prepared to get the basics really established before rushing up the levels.
I asked my instructor (list 1 Judge) how far he honestly thought spring could go. Without hesitation he came back with "all the way". Had he said elem, poss med then I might have moved on more quickly. As it is we are still working on getting the basics really established because I don't want a hole in his training to come back and bite us in the ass later on.
You see it all too often in dressage. As soon as someone breaks the 65% barrier they move up a level. 65% means you are only satisfactory in half the movements and fairly good in the other half. That to me means there is still work to do at that level, not time to move up.

I see your point and perhaps it's me who has to change attitude.
At the moment, the way I see it, it doesn't matter if the rider wants to jump 60cm forever on or is aiming to win at National level. The basics are there to protect the horse from being hauled and kicked and if the rider can't steer coming to the jump, turn to it well or keep a line and rhythm without their arms being pulled out of their sockets then to me they need to stick with learning the basics not chasing ribbons :-/

 

[PaddyMonty]

Agree completely but when these people look at their peer group it will seem they are doing what is required as they will pretty much all be doing the same thing. Very sad situation.

 

[viola]

Agree completely but when these people look at their peer group it will seem they are doing what is required as they will pretty much all be doing the same thing. Very sad situation.

It is indeed. I also agree with Pigeon that there is an issue of lack of discipline and desire to learn. I do wonder though, as with anything I think it's up to the teachers to create that discipline, spark and learning hunger. Sure, not everyone will get on with every instructor's personality and methods but I do think both freelance coaches at PC/RC and those in riding schools need to address the way basics are taught and how learning to ride is sold...not as a McDonald Drive Thru sandwich but as an long-term experience and distance travel perhaps?

 

[PaddyMonty]

Before that happens I think (from experience) that the standard of coach at RC/PC would have to improve considerably. I think for every 1 that knows their stuff there are 10 that really aren't up to the task.

 

[dominobrown]

I think its hard for instructors to do completely what they would like to do.
As someone mentioned they 'spent 4 months doing lunge lessons' and hated it. In this day and age the client would simply move on, complain about the instructor and go elsewhere. In riding schools especially people want to go as a 'pleasure activity' not for torture.

And I don't think its a modern phenomenon either, I know of plenty of people who learnt to ride a long time ago and have the worst positions possible. If you look at a lot of photos etc from the 50's etc when a lot of people where 'self taught' there was some awful riding about. In fact these days it might be a bit better. Due to H+S kids tend to jump smaller etc so not as gun-ho, which the ponies are probably glad of!
Personally a few people seem to have rather skewed rose tinted glasses on when it comes to "the good old days" whenever they were!

I do agree with people who say that people want 'instant' results (that's probably because of the cost of lessons!) and motivation. A lot of kids don't seem to have much drive anymore.
At the RS where I used to work there never seemed to many children willing to come and help or work for rides anymore. They just want to get on a pony, do perfectly and cry when they don't. Parenting has something to do with it probably.

 

[Kylara]

I've always been of the opinion that a lot of problems arise from lead rein things with parents doing the leading.

I was recently at a PC CPD day and the woman next to me was moaning about that very thing - she would try to teach and the parents were telling their kids different things and getting cross at them. I told her that if I ever teach lead rein with parents leading I do a swap system - no child is led by their own parent. The parents are designated different children and ponies. This works on two levels - the kids only have one person teaching them and the parents actually listen to the instructor too! And none of the kids get told off, but praised and helped because they aren't related

I try and keep "boring" walk lessons interesting by explaining and asking questions - keeping it interesting. I also don't mind chatting about how their week has been, or their month.

 

[viola]

The parents are designated different children and ponies. This works on two levels - the kids only have one person teaching them and the parents actually listen to the instructor too! And none of the kids get told off, but praised and helped because they aren't related

That's a great tactic

 

[Kylara]

Hah! Thanks

I hope that it gets some of the right stuff in the parents' heads too as they have to actually listen and pay attention instead of quietly yelling at their child to do what they think the child should be doing, instead of what I want them to be doing!

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I have just got a new instructor who I am having breakthrough after breakthrough with, I have been struggling with my contact on the flat and at camp last week I just got told to keep my hands still by one instructor, yesterday in my lesson my new one had me go from walk to medium trot get the right contact then keep the power and come back to working, the canter from this trot is amazing, I'm learning to love this dressage thing and so ppleased I have found a instructor who helps me make sense of this.

 

[_GG_]

I have just got a new instructor who I am having breakthrough after breakthrough with, I have been struggling with my contact on the flat and at camp last week I just got told to keep my hands still by one instructor, yesterday in my lesson my new one had me go from walk to medium trot get the right contact then keep the power and come back to working, the canter from this trot is amazing, I'm learning to love this dressage thing and so ppleased I have found a instructor who helps me make sense of this.

That's a very good exercise

Keep this instructor....sounds like a goon 'un xx

 

[Magda Mucha]

Sadly I have not seen different approach at many riding schools, were I used to work (not any more!). Teaching nowadays means "how to have more clients" instead of "how to teach the clients". As a teacher working for a company I could not make a decision to offer lunging lesson to work on for example leg stability, going with the horse's movement, basic balance in three paces (sitting and in half seat)... It is sad indeed, especially for the horses and ponies, as they are not able to protect themselves. We are here to protect them and to teach and ride correctly.

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

Thanks UOTE=_GG_;12593847]That's a very good exercise

Keep this instructor....sounds like a goon 'un xx[/QUOTE]

Thanks GG, I have learnt so much in such a short space of time, who knew that you can control the shoulders. Having my new horse has shown me how little I really know. But im loving learning it all!

 

[_GG_]

Thanks UOTE=_GG_;12593847]That's a very good exercise

Keep this instructor....sounds like a goon 'un xx

Thanks GG, I have learnt so much in such a short space of time, who knew that you can control the shoulders. Having my new horse has shown me how little I really know. But im loving learning it all![/QUOTE]

You can't when they are loaded with the horses weight, so if you are able to control the shoulders now, it is evidence that there is a shift of the weight being taken behind, so definitely going in the right direction

I don't often get on a students horse unless they ask me to, but one of the times I will is where they are struggling to understand the feel of contact. Then, I will hop on for 15 minutes to find out what the horse is about and understand that particular horses "feel". Then, I can get the student back on, have them take the reins and I can hold them behind the bit and physically give them that same feel so that they know in a literal and physical sense what they are looking to achieve.
For the vast majority of people, the comment is, "really? I thought it was meant to be really light?".

 

[showpony]

I think it's v difficult for a rs instructor to teach " contact " to kids that ride once a week tbh...mainly due to parents who want to see them do lots in a 1 hour lesson. . mini has been learning about contact etc for past while but its clicked more since she got her new pony less than two wls ago lol... Her coach does drill her on not dropping hands etc and riding from behind into the bridle and penny is really starting to drop with massive improvements in mini past week. . takes the right kind of coach though to be able to simplify things so that child understands.
A lot also depends on how much the child wants to learn... Mini does a group lesson during week ( on top of her private lessons) and last week coach took away stirrups and tbh the other kids on lesson were more focused on having a laugh where as mini at 7 took it very seriously lol... And wanted to get it right...if the child doesn't want to learn its really not the instructors fault .

 

[Mylife]

My riding school never taught me a thing, not one thing, of course I didn't realise this until I got a horse on loan and his owner have me lessons, opened up a whole new world to me, now own a horse and having lessons with an instructor I actually learn from

 

[viola]

My riding school never taught me a thing, not one thing, of course I didn't realise this until I got a horse on loan and his owner have me lessons, opened up a whole new world to me, now own a horse and having lessons with an instructor I actually learn from

Definitely more and more riders go the loaning route exactly because they feel lack of learning experience. Perhaps in another 50 years there will only be trekking centres and loan-to-ride centres...

 

[sarahann1]

In the little bits of teaching I still do, I always teach contact and am taught it by my own instructor. Tonight my instructor was reminding me not to drop it, what it should be and how the feel should be to 'lift him up through his withers' worked a treat

I learned to teach at a RS, some it it was most definitely not what I would do now, but contact was very much a part of every lesson I taught, at its basic level, teaching independent balance so they didn't sock the horses in the gob when the time came to pick up a true contact. With adults and kids alike I use my hands against theirs so they get a feel for what's correct for that particular horse.
Behind the vertical wasn't something I'd ever encourage.

 

[MungoMadness]

I wasn't taught a thing about contact until I started flat lessons with my current instructor. This was after ten years of riding, three share horses (lessons on all) and a season of BUCS at uni. I've spent the two and a bit years since trying to play catch up!

 

[acorn92x]

I think the problem that so many people have is they concentrate far too much on what is going on at the front of their horse (EG: The position of the animals head and neck), and not nearly enough on what the back end is doing, how the horse is working etc. Another aspect which is often missed is whether they, the rider, are balanced, have an even and soft contact and are actually asking the horse what they want to achieve in a correct way. As mentioned before, so many people do not understand the concept of what it means to have 'Contact' or have a false illusion of what a horse should look and move like when it is accepting it in a correct way.

I agree that it is difficult for riding schools who only teach a child once a week to teach them things such as contact, especially if the child is young, takes time to pick things up or does not have a great attention span but greater attention needs to be given to these children in order for them to achieve the correct techniques.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wonder what children learn about horses full stop. I was judging young handler classes at the weekend and asked the children to show me how to pick up the pony's hoof as if to pick out the foot. There were very few who even approached the task correctly, the steward and I ended up giving a stable management lesson to almost every under18 yr old on the show ground (most but not all were with their own pony). I was flabbergasted!

 

[_GG_]

I wonder what children learn about horses full stop. I was judging young handler classes at the weekend and asked the children to show me how to pick up the pony's hoof as if to pick out the foot. There were very few who even approached the task correctly, the steward and I ended up giving a stable management lesson to almost every under18 yr old on the show ground (most but not all were with their own pony). I was flabbergasted!

Was it maybe a case of "mum does it"? I have some wonderful freinds whose children do everything, but equally, some whose children are deemed too precious and the mums are basically grooms. It means very talented little riders who can't do the basics on horse care.

 

[vanessa9360]

Not anymore they dont. Having taught for 35 years i have more or less stopped as its no longer worth it. I recently took a friends daughter to a local agricultural college for her induction and whilst waiting for her took myself and her young brother off to have a look round the equine unit. Was watching a practise for a musical ride, the instructor was telling the lead riders to wait for the others , and for the rear riders to catch up. This was all we heard for a good 10 minuites, no explaination given. My friends young son summed it up when he said out loud "why is she so crap why doesnt she tell the first ones to half halt and slow their rising down and the last ones to use their legs and seat " true but exit one very red faced person. However if that is the standard of instruction how can future instructors hope to teach. Halfhalts are never taught and neither is the importance of the seat, anymore.A

It always infuriates me how children are told how to ride. Squash and sit deep to stop and if that doesn't work pull on reins. The first thing I always do is teach people how to go down a transition properly. Halting may take you 5 or 6 paces before it happens that way, but the more you do it the quicker it happens.

I am of the opinion that you should explain why and how you want people to do it regardless of if they are children or not. Children are not stupid and I have found that they appreciate being treated as such.

I always focus on rider position first and I offer ridden lunge lessons that purely focus on the rider's position. If you have a bad position your horse won't go well and if your horse won't go well and you aren't sitting properly how on earth are you supposed to get a horse working happily into the contact and then rounding nicely and offering a nice outline because of how he is going?

I also don't like it when instructors just say go and do this and then don't explain, how, why, or whether you are doing it right and getting the right result.

Riders I teach may not feel that they are doing much in the first few lessons but then once I have sorted them out, their horse works better and previously difficult maneuvers are a bit easier than they were before.

Totally agree with you on that not many people teach anymore, they just set tasks and let people get on with it regardless of whether they are doing it correctly or not!

 

[shadeofshyness]

This is a very interesting thread. I have had riding lessons for 20 years and only in the past year have I really been taught about contact - everything I knew before was self-taught from feeling what was 'right' and reading online. No riding school (and I've been to lots!) had ever explained anything properly, other than to 'keep sponging' but without ever saying or showing what a proper contact feels like.

Honestly sometimes I wish I could erase all my riding knowledge, revert to being an 8 year old, and start again from scratch, learning from someone who gets it and can explain it.

When I think of the thousands of pounds I've thrown away...

 

[Molly'sMama]

I, as a young person, find this quite biased. I have not always had 'professional' lessons or horsey parents, but I can get on a fiery dressage horse and make him go out and do a 70+ dressage test, with comments on good contact/self carriage etcetera.
I only do dressage now, but my instructor used to event and teach me to jump. She always stressed how jumping was mostly flatwork and so I never got to jump until I had pony going in a lovely balanced held canter with no poles or anything.
Maybe because she was flatwork focussed herself now she knew the importance? The girl who has my mare now has a terrible position over fences, it pains me

 

[Twiglet]

I tend to think a good instructor really earns their money, and I struggle to see how anyone gets a lot from group lessons. My main trainer is my yard owner, and she literally doesn't let up for a whole lesson - every single movement is corrected and commented on, she can spot the tiniest movement in my seat or hand, and she's constantly constantly adjusting me. The sessions are quite mentally and physically exhausting - for all three of us!!

I haven't ridden at a riding school in years, but I can't remember anything about contact being taught.

 

[vanessa9360]

I use to say to my pupils the horse should feel like it "pings" into trot/canter etc and use to tell them there legs should fall round the horse like a wet dishcloth falls round the sink. Got a few funny looks when at a show in the collecting ring one of my pupils got a brilliant transition went and did a excellent test and came out and told me her dishcloths had made every transition a ping. But it was her eureka moment.

 

[Kat]

I am really dismayed by this thread. I was riding regularly in a riding school 1 group lesson a week with a semi private once a fortnight until 4 years ago.

I had a variety of instructors of various levels and was certainly taught about contact. And correct contact too, the one who told us to fiddle the horses head in "rotate your hand like you are stirring a pudding" was complained about to the owner and the "french classical" one who believed you barely had to touch the reins got so much back chat she refused to teach the group again.

I was taught to get on a variety of horses assess them and improve their way of going. We almost never rode as a group. The instructor gave 8 private lessons simultaneously. The instructor would get on and set your horse up for you to feel if that was what you needed or would totally leave you to it if that was what you needed with all levels of intervention in between.

I had ridden at an old school rough and ready riding school in the 80s and 90s then had a share but had never been taught to really ride. I discovered a whole new world at that riding school.

I only left because I bought my own horse, a youngster who is becoming a lovely alrounder thanks to the lessons I learnt at the riding school.

Perhaps people need to seek out better riding schools and better instructors. There are rubbish ones out there but don't write them all off.

 

[Kylara]

Hah, my main problem is that lots of instructors "assume" knowledge, or can't explain it when asked - I think I mentioned earlier about being asked how to half halt as I had assumed the rider knew as I had been mentioning it during previous lessons but I straight away explained how, where, when, and why and that there are different types of half halt.

I get infuriated by instructors that have a "just get on with it" attitude and seem to get angry and offended if you ask further questions about an exercise or thing you have been asked to do.

Good instructors are great and good riding schools even better, but finding them is the problem, and often they are not local! (My closest excellent school is an hours drive away! And almost £80 a lesson)