Contact issue

[Illusion100]

It's a double jointed losenge

What mouthpiece is the fulmer? Adding a noseband may be causing discomfort with the action of the bit.

Also, is his stop 100% to a voice cue without any rein? If not, I’d go back to ground work and properly install the stop using a cue completely unrelated to the rein.

Double jointed losenge mouthpiece.

He can stop without a voice cue. Heck, he can even rein back.

 

[Illusion100]

Another who wouldn’t be going down the grackle route just yet (although I’m notoriously anti- gadget). Sounds like it’s learning to accept a slight contact. It’s still early days and the horse may not be strong enough to go there yet? Is the horse safe enough to hack for a bit to build up?

He is absolutely not safe enough yet to hack, unfortunately.

Yes, I think he really has a problem with the concept of a constant, albeit featherlight contact.

 

[Illusion100]

The only real change you have made is the grackle ... ditch it ... see what he does. Chiro first for me.

I'm going to continue for another few lunging sessions in grackle and if no improvement, like you say, ditch it

 

[Illusion100]

After reading that it is almost certainly a physical issue. Could be sacroiliac or stifles or anything if he was trapped in a gate. Sacroiliac classic symptoms are not lameness but poor performance.

I wouldn't say he has any lameness/performance issue, this horse could have a leg missing and still be strutting his stuff.

Vet advice was he doesn't have an issue, so no point wasting money, but I do genuinely feel something is up. And let's be honest, we would all probably strain something if we got caught in a broken gate and panicked!

 

[splashgirl45]

what are you lunging him in apart from bridle and grackle, side reins etc and are you lunging from the bit

 

[Illusion100]

Riding up to the hand means his hind has to connect and push through. As you know there was an incident with his hind legs I'd be looking there first. Might be some residual muscle damage?

I agree with either removing or at least downgrading the noseband to a zero pressure and no restriction of tongue or jaw movement. The contact should be steady and light but constantly there whilst you are working him.

I'm sure EVERYONE would claim this, but I ride with very light hands. Especially on green horses.

He was super on previous rides, he holds his shoulders and neck lightly.

I'm not getting on him again until I'm reassured he has no physical issues.

I sent this horse for a routine op when he was 8 months old and got handed back a lunatic. I've never stopped feeling guilty about it. Actually having ridden him is not something I thought would happen. And I'm not letting him down again.

 

[Illusion100]

what are you lunging him in apart from bridle and grackle, side reins etc and are you lunging from the bit

Last 2 times, lunged with saddle/bridle, reins under stirrups giving a long contact (I like long reins, especially for XC), show chain attached to both sides of bit for even pressure and lunge line attached to that.

He does not pull on lunge either.

 

[Illusion100]

No you haven’t fixed the issue, you’ve just stuck a sticking plaster over the top of the problem. You need to identify why he is now trying to evade the bit. Silencing the only means a horse has of objecting to the bit, for whatever reason, is unfair.

I am trying to identify and resolve the issue.

Not once have I claimed I've "fixed" it.

My horse has had a custom made bridle, numerous professionals check his health/tack, advice from other professionals as to his response and yet I'm seeking more opinions just in case something has been missed.

I'm not sticking a plaster on anything thank you.

 

[splashgirl45]

Last 2 times, lunged with saddle/bridle, reins under stirrups giving a long contact (I like long reins, especially for XC), show chain attached to both sides of bit for even pressure and lunge line attached to that.

He does not pull on lunge either.

i wouldnt expect him to pull if lunging off the bit...i wonder if its worth trying with elastic side reins adjusted so slight contact while walking and then less contact trotting and have a lunge cavasson with the lunge line attached to that rather than the bit, also you are using a double lozenge, my loan mare came to me with a pelham with a grackle which i didnt want to use so i tried double jointed lozenge and she was very fussy in her mouth when i used it on her. i thought it would be more comfortable and after trying lots of bits the one she was happiest in was a dr bristol which i thought was a more severe bit...and i changed the grackle to a cavesson as well.

 

[Illusion100]

i wouldnt expect him to pull if lunging off the bit...i wonder if its worth trying with elastic side reins adjusted so slight contact while walking and then less contact trotting and have a lunge cavasson with the lunge line attached to that rather than the bit, also you are using a double lozenge, my loan mare came to me with a pelham with a grackle which i didnt want to use so i tried double jointed lozenge and she was very fussy in her mouth when i used it on her. i thought it would be more comfortable and after trying lots of bits the one she was happiest in was a dr bristol which i thought was a more severe bit...and i changed the grackle to a cavesson as well.

Thanks for all your help, I'm taking on board what everyone has said and going to find someone to check him over for physiological issues.

Yes, he lunges in side reins with a roller/side reins with a saddle and reins with saddle. And a headcollar.....he doesn't pull in that either

This issue is new and only started when he became over confident under saddle in walk and trot.

However, he did trap his legs in a broken gate in the interim and has residual scarring, white hair growth and a prominent blemish. The yard was BHS approved.

 

[shortstuff99]

I've had a quick read through and can't see whether you've said how old he is? Could he be losing any of his caps? That can make them uncomfortable in the mouth.

 

[splashgirl45]

hope you get to the bottom of his problems, sounds like you have covered most things. good luck

 

[smiggy]

Might just be being a baby ? If only schooling and not hacking he possibly isn’t that fit yet and getting tired. I always find they do the rein snatching when they are a bit tired.
sometimes it’s finding the level of contact they like, which may be firmer than you are offering. My four year old lets me know exactly how much contact she likes, just have to hit that right spot!

 

[Illusion100]

I've had a quick read through and can't see whether you've said how old he is? Could he be losing any of his caps? That can make them uncomfortable in the mouth.

He is 10, just very green. I'm so proud of him, but he is a very, very sassy beast. A cuddle bug, a liar, a brave boy, a wimp and also far too opinionated/clever for his own good!

 

[Illusion100]

hope you get to the bottom of his problems, sounds like you have covered most things. good luck

I'm really trying here! I know his mother was also a very, very difficult but talented horse.

But mine had an brain oxygen deprivation, during a GA op. I was heartbroken.

 

[Goldenstar]

I would find an ACPAT trained physio and have them assess the horse including watching him being ridden .

 

[Illusion100]

I would find an ACPAT trained physio and have them assess the horse including watching him being ridden .

I did see a guy who visited old yard, he wanted to see horses loose. I have asked for his details, I'll chase him up.

 

[Illusion100]

Might just be being a baby ? If only schooling and not hacking he possibly isn’t that fit yet and getting tired. I always find they do the rein snatching when they are a bit tired.
sometimes it’s finding the level of contact they like, which may be firmer than you are offering. My four year old lets me know exactly how much contact she likes, just have to hit that right spot!

He is DEFINITELY an over thinker, but I genuinely have never ridden him more than a 15min session at a time, only working on aids and transitions.

Haha, he was such a dude, I love him. I just want to sort his sass from an actual problem.