controversial Post people who can’t afford their horse

[LadyGascoyne]

People also spend their money poorly.

I have seen, twice recently, horses on all sorts of supplements with pretty matching head collars and saddle pads go too long between farrier visits or not seeing a vet when they ought to have. I have seen physios booked or equine massage therapists booked, when the horse needs a vet. Oh and then there was the lady with the herbalist and the psychic whose ancient horse was absolutely begging to be let go, and she was working multiple jobs to afford it.

I think that a lot of people forget that they are animals and not humans or ‘babies’. Meeting the needs of a horse as an animal doesn’t have to be as expensive or complicated but it does involve making sure that vets and feet are prioritised.

 

[sasquatch]

What I paid for my horse 8 years ago in terms of livery is about a quarter of what I pay now. Albeit, I am now on full livery rather than DIY - with the cost of feed and shavings going up, combined with the cost of petrol, full livery works out around the same if not cheaper than DIY for me and works better with my work hours. It used to be £35 a week for DIY with haylage included, probably closer to £50 including feed and bedding. I now pay €140 per week for full livery, which includes haylage and hay, feed, bedding, turnout daily and mucking out and feeding. I’m very lucky to be on a well managed livery yard - they go out full time over summer usually for close to 6 months and I’m guessing that offsets the winter costs.

Rents and the cost of living are going up, people who could afford a horse and a €100 increase last year are now spending that €100 on food, electric and gas bills, rent increases etc. That’s not taking into account the cost of horse feed, bedding etc. going up as well.

I’m in a position now where I can afford my horse, I’ve been able to afford a livery increase, but some months it’s been hard to get by if our gas and electric bill is higher than normal, or I’ve had to put off the farrier by a week or two until I’ve been paid (8 weeks rather than 6). My horse doesn’t get her supplements anymore, she doesn’t really need them as she’s currently only in very light work, and thankfully she doesn’t need additional feed to what the yard provides. She has her rugs and more than enough tack and bits and pieces, so that’s not something I’m having to pay for and thankfully she’s pretty good when it comes to not wrecking her rugs (headcollars are another story - but I can replace leather parts by buying second hand ones and using parts from different ones she’s wrecked). It is tight every month, I am on a tight budget, but I make it work. However another livery increase or a rent increase and I would have to sell. I don’t have any savings, and I know moving to grass livery/turning out for a few months to save money is something I’ve considered for her, as well as part loaners and full loans.

I don’t know if people are knowingly buying horses that they can’t afford, or if they’re buying horses they can afford and then budgets are being stretched by increases in things outside of just livery alone.

 

[Fieldlife]

Absolutely agree. I see so many people posting for advice on Facebook about issues that urgently need vet attention. It's horrible.
In the past 3 months I have taken a limping duck and a sick guinea pig to the vet at a combined cost of over $1500. People asked why I would bother and it honestly confused me, I would never think not to take any of my animals to the vet, no matter their size or statue

I am not sure it is quite that simple. Outside immediate first aid / welfare / clear sickness issue.

I have the money to have the vet for whatever my horse needs. However, I dont necessarily think vets are always helpful / useful/ knowledgeable / right. Junior vets can be quite limited in skill sets. Many ambulatory vets are GPs at best.

e.g. my vet ten years ago told me large horses could not have grass sugar related metabolic issues. (He'd not say this today!)

And sometimes thinking outside box, sharing stories / suggestions can be helpful.

I no longer think my vet's view is necessarily gold standard / gold plated / what I must do for my animals.

They are an important input, an important part of the team, and a valued professional. But they are not gospel. I try and stay informed, educated, and provide challenge, and chose my horses support team of professionals wisely.

Sorry, I have gone off at a slight tangent.

 

[shanti]

I am not sure it is quite that simple. Outside immediate first aid / welfare / clear sickness issue.

I have the money to have the vet for whatever my horse needs. However, I dont necessarily think vets are always helpful / useful/ knowledgeable / right. Junior vets can be quite limited in skill sets. Many ambulatory vets are GPs at best.

e.g. my vet ten years ago told me large horses could not have grass sugar related metabolic issues. (He'd not say this today!)

And sometimes thinking outside box, sharing stories / suggestions can be helpful.

I no longer think my vet's view is necessarily gold standard / gold plated / what I must do for my animals.

They are an important input, an important part of the team, and a valued professional. But they are not gospel. I try and stay informed, educated, and provide challenge, and chose my horses support team of professionals wisely.

Sorry, I have gone off at a slight tangent.

I'm talking about things like "how do I stop this bleeding" and a photo of a gaping wounds that needs stitches before the horse collapses from blood loss and "my horse has been violently collicking for 5 hours, what's a good natural remedy"

 

[ponyparty]

You don't just see this in horses though tbh, we've all heard or seen the ridiculous FB posts, people needing to crowdfund just the very basics for their animals, so they clearly don't have any buffer in place for when said animal inevitably needs vet treatment. Saw one local to me this week, asking for food for her dog. It's sad and it's a shame etc. but seriously, if you (as in, one, not anyone here!) can't even afford to feed it day-to-day, let alone any of the other potential costs, why on earth have you got one?!

 

[honetpot]

You don't just see this in horses though tbh, we've all heard or seen the ridiculous FB posts, people needing to crowdfund just the very basics for their animals, so they clearly don't have any buffer in place for when said animal inevitably needs vet treatment. Saw one local to me this week, asking for food for her dog. It's sad and it's a shame etc. but seriously, if you (as in, one, not anyone here!) can't even afford to feed it day-to-day, let alone any of the other potential costs, why on earth have you got one?!

You do need money to save money. My husband has always been a higher earner, same credit card company and he gets a better offer than me, and I have spent about twenty years building a good credit record, just in case. You have the ability to buy in bulk, from tiolet cleaner to dog food, and its cheaper.
I wince when I see people buying pet food in supermarkets that's heavily marketed, some of which even through expensive is full of cheap fillers, and unfortuately it's pretty much the same with horse feed. A bale of hay is messy, and basic, something in a shiney well advertised bag has to be better.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I'm too afraid of doing a spreadsheet to list the bills we pay for our too horses. Before I even think of farrier bills @ £90 at time per horse every 6 weeks & feed, hay & bedding I pay out around £6000 per year for the stable & grazing & use of the arena. My wife & daughter went to a table top sale for horsey items, you know a horsey car boot to sell a variety of things we no longer needed. They'd laid it all out & someone we know asked if we had given up horses? She couldn't understand why we had so much stuff laid out. We used to do affiliated show jumping with both horses & also dressage & when you retire the horses from competition you have so much stuff that you no longer need. When you think of how much you paid for the stuff & how much you are 'giving' it all away for it just does your head.

 

[Fieldlife]

unfortuately it's pretty much the same with horse feed. A bale of hay is messy, and basic, something in a shiney well advertised bag has to be better.

I did the cost / calorie for weight gain and a bale of hay (of any size) is always more cost effective than chaff / bagged feed / tubbed feed etc. Though loads and loads of people dont seem to have worked this otu.

 

[Fieldlife]

I'm too afraid of doing a spreadsheet to list the bills we pay for our too horses. Before I even think of farrier bills @ £90 at time per horse every 6 weeks & feed, hay & bedding I pay out around £6000 per year for the stable & grazing & use of the arena. My wife & daughter went to a table top sale for horsey items, you know a horsey car boot to sell a variety of things we no longer needed. They'd laid it all out & someone we know asked if we had given up horses? She couldn't understand why we had so much stuff laid out. We used to do affiliated show jumping with both horses & also dressage & when you retire the horses from competition you have so much stuff that you no longer need. When you think of how much you paid for the stuff & how much you are 'giving' it all away for it just does your head.

I am really careful with this, not to stockpile stuff, though I buy lots of things. I buy second hand when I can.

And when I change something e.g. girth type, I clean up and sell on the old one. Really good photos, measurements, description, list on buy it now ebay (or FB market place if too bulky to post).

I try not to accumulate any clutter. I am also diligent about sending back any misorders / things that dont fit / dont suit / dont work. (Always amazed by people that buy wrong size, and fail to send item back in time).

 

[honetpot]

I did the cost / calorie for weight gain and a bale of hay (of any size) is always more cost effective than chaff / bagged feed / tubbed feed etc. Though loads and loads of people dont seem to have worked this otu.

They also do not factor in gut fermentation of forage is a way a horse maintains its tempreture in winter.

 

[SO1]

They say for financial security you should have a years salary saved up. I have about 10 months salary saved. I try and be very careful with money as I don't have a partner to support me.

 

[SEL]

People also spend their money poorly.

I have seen, twice recently, horses on all sorts of supplements with pretty matching head collars and saddle pads go too long between farrier visits or not seeing a vet when they ought to have. I have seen physios booked or equine massage therapists booked, when the horse needs a vet. Oh and then there was the lady with the herbalist and the psychic whose ancient horse was absolutely begging to be let go, and she was working multiple jobs to afford it.

I think that a lot of people forget that they are animals and not humans or ‘babies’. Meeting the needs of a horse as an animal doesn’t have to be as expensive or complicated but it does involve making sure that vets and feet are prioritised.

Its pretty frustrating as the therapist to turn up and find a lame horse that needs a vet not a wasted therapist appointment too!!

I've got a friend who would rather have a communicator or a herbalist or a **something else-ist** than the vet and for the life of me I don't know why. The amount of money she wastes on alternative therapies is obscene.

 

[Fieldlife]

Its pretty frustrating as the therapist to turn up and find a lame horse that needs a vet not a wasted therapist appointment too!!

I have seen some therapists treat lame horses and some refuse. And some treat horses that are under vet supervision with their agreement.

I do think lots of therapists treat serviceably sound older horses / compromised horses without direct vet engagement.

Whole area is a minefield.

You also get into what is lame / what is stiff / what is crooked / what is sound post treatment / what is gait deviation / what is limb flight swing in or out etc etc

I get that if a horse is head nodding, dog lame all bets are off!

 

[sbloom]

I think saddle fitters will certainly be seeing some serious issues once (IF) this cost of living crisis passes, checks are being suspended while people can't afford them, and new saddle sales are similarly affected (probably more so, understandably). And having just read yet another saddle fitter having seen a horse with a long term asymmetry and that finally said horse has been retired unsound, ignoring compensatory movement patterns has always happened, but it will be worse right now. Training correctly with an eye to movement is cheap in itself, but getting the education to do it is expensive. The consequences of training without an eye to this (very very common) is more expensive.

 

[Jambarissa]

I think some therapists are more likely to tell you what you want to hear - whether that's the horse just needs field rest or isn't in pain when you ride even though he's limping or will be fine when the poor thing needs pts.

Having said that some vets aren't much better, we've a few owners on my yard who can't bare to let their old horses go and the vets are happy to ignore the fact that they spend 80% of the day laid down and need to be regularly hauled up with ropes when they get stuck. One was advised to regularly turn the horse to prevent 'bed sores', wtf??

And we now have a vet who does 2 days a week as a vet and 3 days as a homeopath. No call out fee on the homeopathic visits. Massive conflict there!

 

[sbloom]

I have conversations with professionals all the time about which customers are ready to hear which message, and spend what amount of money. Should we agonise about that, place the rider at the centre of things (and boy does this need a certain skill set) or should we always place the horse at the centre of things and just be kind while doing it?

 

[ElectricChampagne]

Looking at this from the other side of my partner running a full only livery yard, some owners would be better off with guinea pigs.

Spending huge money on cwd saddles (taking out loans to do so), samshield helmets, the latest expensive clothing, boots, breeches, riding tights, having the latest matchy matchy, the latest trending feed, or supplements, or getting lessons with the next in fashion name to post on social media.

Question everything and everyone including vets, farriers, chiros etc because Google told them different. To the point a lot of these professionals will no longer deal with them and block them.

We had one that insulted a physiotherapist so much she refused point blank to treat the horse and suggested to any others she would refer for additional work, to blacklist this owner.

But when it's suggested a vet needs calling, or the horse needs a new set of shoes because it's been 24 weeks in one case we had, we get baulked at. Said horse had multiple matchy matchy sets, almost one for every day of the month, but wouldn't put shoes on and blamed us for lameness issues.

Then if the horse is on box rest and they can't ride, he's dumped with us to care for it. Owner doesn't show up for months on end and then starts complaining about the cost of everything. And how it's not fair they can't ride.

People make very bad financial decisions about horse care. Some people are not in horse ownership for the love of the horse.

There are of course the absolute wonderful owners too that would do anything for their horse in a heartbeat to keep them healthy and they understand the work it takes to look after them.

 

[dougpeg]

For the first time in my life I find myself without a horse. My longterm horse of a lifetime is on loan to the RDA and I've just sold my youngster. Finances played a part coupled with limited livery yard options that offer what I need. Unexpected vet bills and car repairs over the year and the wettest winter I can remember all factor in. We've had so much flood water by me just getting to the yard was an issue at times. I'm looking forward to what life looks life without the daily commitment. My bank account will sure look a whole lot better too. I'm hoping it will not be this way forever, but for now, it's the right decision for me.

 

[marmalade76]

For the first time in my life I find myself without a horse. My longterm horse of a lifetime is on loan to the RDA and I've just sold my youngster. Finances played a part coupled with limited livery yard options that offer what I need. Unexpected vet bills and car repairs over the year and the wettest winter I can remember all factor in. We've had so much flood water by me just getting to the yard was an issue at times. I'm looking forward to what life looks life without the daily commitment. My bank account will sure look a whole lot better too. I'm hoping it will not be this way forever, but for now, it's the right decision for me.

Can you still go and ride him while he's at the RDA? Pretty sure our local one has teens that go and exercise their horses between disabled sessions.

 

[dougpeg]

Can you still go and ride him while he's at the RDA? Pretty sure our local one has teens that go and exercise their horses between disabled sessions.

No, she's about 3 hours away. The best place I could find which offers high standards of care and meets her needs. A sad situation but they can give her a better quality of life than I can right now. She doesn't cope with restricted or individual turnout and that's all that's on offer near me. The other option was to have her on full livery somewhere miles away; something I cant really afford.
It's a lovely place though and she's bringing joy to a lot of people. She'll come home to me at some point.

 

[Orange Pony]

No judgement but I think this would be an interesting decision . I only asking because I have seen an increase in people looking for cheap livery and people complaining about their livery fees on Facebook . Are we getting to the point where people are getting into horse ownership knowing they can’t afford there horse but buy the horse anyway but keep there horses on a tight budget to the point when a yard puts up their livery fees people back is to the wall and they can’t afford it ? or Is the cost living pricing out normal people from owning horses to the point they could have to sell there horses in the future.

It is an interesting topic of conversation. We've been talking about it in my contemporary issues equine degree program. So many people own horses because they are relatively cheap to buy nowadays but the ongoing cost of care is extensive and welfare is suffering as a result.

 

[maya2008]

And to add to this the most routine of cuts that don't even need stitching are now having vet visits, anything that a staple can be got in is being stapled, and the whole leg bandaged, which runs into the hundreds without the bandage necrosis that then won't respond to antibiotics, arthritis made symptomatic by box rest etc, etc

Gone are the days when you used to let it scab over and chuck them out to walk off the filling and stop it stiffening up.

It may be correct but it's extremely expensive.

Not completely gone - our vets are still independent and very realistic about treatment.

Anything that doesn’t need stitching just needs cleaning and purple spray though, surely? Mostly I find those kinds of things have already scabbed over before I even get there, so just monitor for infection and see how it goes. No need to even call the vet.

 

[pistolpete]

I wonder what life would be like without one although mine is retired. I can’t really imagine. It’s a weird one.

 

[marmalade76]

It is an interesting topic of conversation. We've been talking about it in my contemporary issues equine degree program. So many people own horses because they are relatively cheap to buy nowadays but the ongoing cost of care is extensive and welfare is suffering as a result.

They're not relatively cheap to buy ATM though, they've been utterly stupid money for the last three years.

That said I think that has come to an end now, I can see people virtually giving them away before long just to relive themselves of the weekly costs.

 

[SO1]

I have noticed a lot more new forests for sale this time this year than last year when I was looking. I wonder if people are struggling financially.

I am incredibly lucky I know to have a decent paid job and the skill set to potentially get more income if required. I am applying for another job this weekend with a 10k rise in salary. However the downside with the higher income roles is less time and worklife balance more stress.

 

[maya2008]

I have noticed a lot more new forests for sale this time this year than last year when I was looking.

I've noticed that too!

 

[Goldie's mum]

I do feel sorry for young/first time horse owners. There are so many more things to spend your money on these days that it must be very difficult to see the wood for the trees.
For a first time owner there are multiple competing voices, telling them they are a bad owner if they don't use this saddle pad, that supplement, or physio.
It's not even as simple as "these are the essentials -- those are the luxuries" because there are times when you really do need that physio or supplement & everyone would agree that things have improved from the days when they weren't available.

It may not be a bad thing if fewer new people go into horse owning, it might help struggling RSs for example. But you have to feel sorry for people who already own a horse that they love & are having to make difficult decisions. Maybe more sharing is the answer?

 

[ElectricChampagne]

No, she's about 3 hours away. The best place I could find which offers high standards of care and meets her needs. A sad situation but they can give her a better quality of life than I can right now. She doesn't cope with restricted or individual turnout and that's all that's on offer near me. The other option was to have her on full livery somewhere miles away; something I cant really afford.
It's a lovely place though and she's bringing joy to a lot of people. She'll come home to me at some point.

See this is being sensible and putting the horses welfare first. Not many do that anymore these days and you should be commended for it.

 

[SO1]

I do feel sorry for young/first time horse owners. There are so many more things to spend your money on these days that it must be very difficult to see the wood for the trees.
For a first time owner there are multiple competing voices, telling them they are a bad owner if they don't use this saddle pad, that supplement, or physio.
It's not even as simple as "these are the essentials -- those are the luxuries" because there are times when you really do need that physio or supplement & everyone would agree that things have improved from the days when they weren't available.

It may not be a bad thing if fewer new people go into horse owning, it might help struggling RSs for example. But you have to feel sorry for people who already own a horse that they love & are having to make difficult decisions. Maybe more sharing is the answer?

I agree. How my childhood ponies were kept would now be considered unacceptable welfare wise. They lived out at home and they saw the farrier every 6 weeks and occasionally got some panacur granules for worming and that was about it. They go hay in the winter if it snowed and had a field shelter. Cost most months for my parents was £0. Most of the kids in the hamlet had ponies and it was considered a cheap hobby.

Things that they didn't get which are now considered essential. Saddler, dentist, physio, balancers, worming programs.

I think very difficult for young people to have horses without family support. The under 30s on our yard all still live at home with parents and not paying market rents or having mortgages.

Most of the liveries are "returners" people who have had ponies as kids and returned to horses as middle aged career women.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I have seen some therapists treat lame horses and some refuse. And some treat horses that are under vet supervision with their agreement.

I do think lots of therapists treat serviceably sound older horses / compromised horses without direct vet engagement.

Whole area is a minefield.

You also get into what is lame / what is stiff / what is crooked / what is sound post treatment / what is gait deviation / what is limb flight swing in or out etc etc

I get that if a horse is head nodding, dog lame all bets are off!

I think some therapists are more likely to tell you what you want to hear - whether that's the horse just needs field rest or isn't in pain when you ride even though he's limping or will be fine when the poor thing needs pts.

Having said that some vets aren't much better, we've a few owners on my yard who can't bare to let their old horses go and the vets are happy to ignore the fact that they spend 80% of the day laid down and need to be regularly hauled up with ropes when they get stuck. One was advised to regularly turn the horse to prevent 'bed sores', wtf??

And we now have a vet who does 2 days a week as a vet and 3 days as a homeopath. No call out fee on the homeopathic visits. Massive conflict there!

I know it is very dependent on the therapist - my physio will meet with my vet for the ones under veterinary supervision - but I’ve just had a different physio on the yard seeing a horse which doesn’t belong to me who told the owner that the horse is sound in front and stiff behind.

The horse is obviously lame in front - although lame in both front feet so doesn’t nod - and has a vet diagnosis with X-rays of navicular, and vets opinion (although hasn’t been MRI’d) of soft tissue damage in the feet on top of that. Horse may well look off behind but that is on top of the sore front feet. The owner in now convinced the vet is wrong and the horse is fine in front.