misst
Well-Known Member
Who is being rude? Are you just trying to get this thread pulled? I thought we were all having an adult conversation but obviously not.
controversial?
- Thread starter not_with_it
- Start date
Jesstickle
Well-Known Member
I really don't have an opinion. But saying a charity should take it is like a red rag to a bull in here. Precisely because of the official line from the country's leading horse charity. I'm not trying to be rude or offensive. Just point out that what you are saying is in direct opposition to what the charities themselves are saying right now.
Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, unfortunately, if your opinion is that the horse be gifted to a rescue, you will get people telling you it is impossible/a bad idea as that is what we are being told by the rescues.
Please don't be offended. Likely as not the situation will be resolved without the horse being PTS anyway so no point us fighting over something we can do nothing about.
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
I've done this myself. 2 horses . both had issues. both PTS rather than be passed from pillar to post to an uncertain future. I can sleep at night.
hellspells
Well-Known Member
No one is being rude on this thread at all. There are some posters on this thread that have put 'their money where their mouth is' and have taken in desperate equines.
Until you see suffering at the hands of 'well meaning people' I don't think you can truly appreciate that having a animal PTS'd is by no means the worst fate for a animal, if it does have issues. At a time when so so many horses are suffering due to the finacial climate (and due to ignorance) how can anybody justify passing on a horse like this I don't know.
To the OP I'd do as you are smile and nod!
Until you see suffering at the hands of 'well meaning people' I don't think you can truly appreciate that having a animal PTS'd is by no means the worst fate for a animal, if it does have issues. At a time when so so many horses are suffering due to the finacial climate (and due to ignorance) how can anybody justify passing on a horse like this I don't know.
To the OP I'd do as you are smile and nod!
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Charities can't take every single homeless horse, they need to make sure they have room for horses like this one: http://www.worldhorsewelfare.org/information/latest-news?view=show&content_id=4114
No one was going to do the decent thing for him, were they? People seem to expect charities to have unlimited space and resources for every single horse in the country, but it is just not so, they simply have to make sure they can take on the worst cases when they arise
Even though it is sad, at least this mare will not have suffered neglect or abuse, and she will have a humane end if a good home cannot be found.
OP, I too would be staying right out of it!
No one was going to do the decent thing for him, were they? People seem to expect charities to have unlimited space and resources for every single horse in the country, but it is just not so, they simply have to make sure they can take on the worst cases when they arise
Even though it is sad, at least this mare will not have suffered neglect or abuse, and she will have a humane end if a good home cannot be found.
OP, I too would be staying right out of it!
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
Nobody's been rude to you, they are just pointing out the facts that you might have conveniently forgotten about how stretched the charities are and realising they can't take on everything much as you would like them to do. I understand your viewpoint but sadly, it's just not possible; the charities are better taking on ones that can have the chance of a decent working life rather than another crock which will cost them a lot in keep and care; better to rescue more than restrict themselves to those that will cost a lot more to keep which will always have a very slim chance of finding a decent home. It's not hard to understand their restrictions unpalatable as it may be to you.
YorksG
Over the hill and far awa
Maesfen, absolutely agree with your pov. There are pages and pages of horses for sale, perfectly nice, sound and sane creatures, people are not buying at this time, or in the near future I would guess. Horses with issues are not going to get good homes.
One of the things that may well happen is that some dodgy dealer, posing as a 'knowledgable, forever home' will turn up, offer to take the mare of the liveries hands and lo and behold the mare is on the treadmill of making a few pounds for the unscrupulous, while sinking further and further down the chain, until she eventually ends up as meat, far better IMO that she is pts now and not after she ends up in poor circumstances.
One of the things that may well happen is that some dodgy dealer, posing as a 'knowledgable, forever home' will turn up, offer to take the mare of the liveries hands and lo and behold the mare is on the treadmill of making a few pounds for the unscrupulous, while sinking further and further down the chain, until she eventually ends up as meat, far better IMO that she is pts now and not after she ends up in poor circumstances.
chestercharlie
Well-Known Member
dancing queen think of it this way, and I dont mean this to be rude in any way whatsoever..
a) horse is shot at a home it knows having been well looked after, won't know a thing about it (I had my 28 year old destroyed last year in the same way, he didnt know a thing and was grazing happily right to the end).
b) horse gets passed around, possibly treated or abused, not looked after, could suffer pain, not secure and happy and ends up anywhere, or possibly destroyed but not on home ground where it is happy etc...
I know which I prefer.
Charities have no room for horses with issues, they are struggling to look after what they have currently. I too am sick of "softies" who think everything can be saved. We cannot save every living thing.
What we can do however, is limit any suffering and the person who took on this mare as a companion is being or was trying to be totally responsible for it's welfare. I cannot believe people talked her into letting them take it on to "give it a chance". Should have kept their noses out!
Whether they agreed or disagreed, (I know people didnt approve of what I did - but plenty understood and later came back saying it was indeed the right decision) they should have allowed this lady to follow through. Maybe SHE wanted peace of mind that the horse was ultimately "ok" and would never suffer.
a) horse is shot at a home it knows having been well looked after, won't know a thing about it (I had my 28 year old destroyed last year in the same way, he didnt know a thing and was grazing happily right to the end).
b) horse gets passed around, possibly treated or abused, not looked after, could suffer pain, not secure and happy and ends up anywhere, or possibly destroyed but not on home ground where it is happy etc...
I know which I prefer.
Charities have no room for horses with issues, they are struggling to look after what they have currently. I too am sick of "softies" who think everything can be saved. We cannot save every living thing.
What we can do however, is limit any suffering and the person who took on this mare as a companion is being or was trying to be totally responsible for it's welfare. I cannot believe people talked her into letting them take it on to "give it a chance". Should have kept their noses out!
Whether they agreed or disagreed, (I know people didnt approve of what I did - but plenty understood and later came back saying it was indeed the right decision) they should have allowed this lady to follow through. Maybe SHE wanted peace of mind that the horse was ultimately "ok" and would never suffer.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Unless she has abandoned it, it's no one business except L's what she decides to do with any of her horses.
Other liveries may be outraged - but unless one of them puts their hand in their pocket to buy said mare - they should butt out.
Other liveries may be outraged - but unless one of them puts their hand in their pocket to buy said mare - they should butt out.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Mmmm, exactly what chance are you giving this horse (who from the OP description is not healthy)? You are not putting your hand in your pocket to fund it. And clearly this is not a welfare or charity case.
And as charities are bursting at the seems with genuine crisis cases, where exactly do you see the money comming from to feed and care for this horse?
There are worse things than a bullet.
And as for your assertion that Joeanne is heartless - love, if only you new............. A more wonderful and careing person you will not find - ever!
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ThePony
Well-Known Member
The liveries should keep their noses out!
PTS, while not a palatable thought, is a long long way from the worst thing that could happen to a horse. She has been well looked after, but would be far towards the bottom of the list for anyone looking for a new horse. PTS gives her a planned and humane end while she is cared for and happy. If only more horses could have such a decent end.
L needs to PTS as planned if the horse is still in her care, if liveries have taken responsibility for the mare then they will need to either put their hands in their pockets and use it to continue careing for her or pay to PTS. If they won't pay for her upkeep why on earth do they expect that someone else should?
Charities are snowed under - every horse that isn't capable of a decent level of work and is to be sold or PTS can't and shouldn't be sent to them. They need to be there for the horses that have no-one to take that kind decision for them, not for owners that can't face the decision themselves.
PTS, while not a palatable thought, is a long long way from the worst thing that could happen to a horse. She has been well looked after, but would be far towards the bottom of the list for anyone looking for a new horse. PTS gives her a planned and humane end while she is cared for and happy. If only more horses could have such a decent end.
L needs to PTS as planned if the horse is still in her care, if liveries have taken responsibility for the mare then they will need to either put their hands in their pockets and use it to continue careing for her or pay to PTS. If they won't pay for her upkeep why on earth do they expect that someone else should?
Charities are snowed under - every horse that isn't capable of a decent level of work and is to be sold or PTS can't and shouldn't be sent to them. They need to be there for the horses that have no-one to take that kind decision for them, not for owners that can't face the decision themselves.
riding_high
Well-Known Member
the other liveries should have kept their noses out OR pay for the upkeep of the horse, if they convinced the owner to keep the horse going then they should be paying for it, if they can't do that then the kindest thing would be to pts.
i hate having any animal pts but there are times when it is the best option. if the owner can't afford to keep the horse and the liveries don't want to pay for it then stay out the way and let the owner do what's right.
i hate having any animal pts but there are times when it is the best option. if the owner can't afford to keep the horse and the liveries don't want to pay for it then stay out the way and let the owner do what's right.
joeanne
Well-Known Member
I cant find the smilie I want since they changed the blooming things so you will just have to have a hug instead!
DQ, Heartless, no, just realistic.
The charities are struggling to cope with genuine welfare cases. Look at Ireland. Things are dire. Horses both here and there are being dumped (in some cases dead, or too late to even help them) on road sides, empty fields, etc.
There are horses that are currently living in terrible conditions that desperatly need the help and intervention of an equine charity, that cannot be helped if they take on every unwanted horse.
If the mare is PTS, she will NEVER know an unhappy day, or an unkind word.
That has to be more preferable to being passed from pillar to post?
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RunToEarth
Well-Known Member
Lets see, it kicks, so would not be rehomed as a companion and would need a field all on its own, unless you fancy bunging a couple of rescue horses in with it for good measure...
It never looks sound, so you would struggle to rehome it as a happy hacker to anyone sane, so you're looking at sending it to one of the type people that posts on here they have just bought a horse with navicular, have no idea what it is, but cannot believe the vets bills...
Or you can just do the sensible thing and have the thing shot.
Foxglove
Well-Known Member
Without being heartless, who do you think is going to pay for all these horses??
Piedpiper
Well-Known Member
As a bit of an aside, but still relevant....
The small holding next to some of our sheep suddenly sprung a visitor at the weekend. Someone had put their horse in their horse paddock overnight. The horse was in good condition and rugged well, so presumably had been loved and cared for.
Obviously no history is known, the people who own the paddock are now responsible for said horse and I have no idea what the outcome is going to be.
I found this distressing on many levels, not least of which to think of an owner possibly pushed into this action as they felt they had no other alternative. But I also feel that it was a very selfish move by the owners. They've dodged the tough choice, but have forced a stranger to potentially do it for them.
Sometimes making the hard choice is the right choice.
The small holding next to some of our sheep suddenly sprung a visitor at the weekend. Someone had put their horse in their horse paddock overnight. The horse was in good condition and rugged well, so presumably had been loved and cared for.
Obviously no history is known, the people who own the paddock are now responsible for said horse and I have no idea what the outcome is going to be.
I found this distressing on many levels, not least of which to think of an owner possibly pushed into this action as they felt they had no other alternative. But I also feel that it was a very selfish move by the owners. They've dodged the tough choice, but have forced a stranger to potentially do it for them.
Sometimes making the hard choice is the right choice.
minkymoo
Well-Known Member
"I think L is being responsible." seriously?!
I don't think she is! She bought this horse as a stop gap for her horse. Would it not have been easier for someone else to bring her horse in (YO perhaps?) or maybe move stables with someone else?
I think this girl has been highly irresponsible!
I don't think she is! She bought this horse as a stop gap for her horse. Would it not have been easier for someone else to bring her horse in (YO perhaps?) or maybe move stables with someone else?
I think this girl has been highly irresponsible!
ThePony
Well-Known Member
Why is it irresponsible to buy a horse as a companion and look after it well, then to avoid it being passed around when you would like to sell it, you take the choice to PTS.
Not irresponsible. Take responsibility for a horse, look after it, and doesn't shirk the responsinility when not wanting to keep the horse anymore.
Seems like a horse owner some in the world would do better to emulate - better than to pass horses around dealers and the sales, or just dump in others fields or on the side of the road.
Not irresponsible. Take responsibility for a horse, look after it, and doesn't shirk the responsinility when not wanting to keep the horse anymore.
Seems like a horse owner some in the world would do better to emulate - better than to pass horses around dealers and the sales, or just dump in others fields or on the side of the road.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Why exactly??
not_with_it
Well-Known Member
The old owner has been contacted and is on holiday. He has just said he would come to the yard when he is back.
No one has taken responsibility for the horse and no one will which is why I am not getting involved. I am well aware that everything could get really messy.
The owner has not swanned off anywhere. She has made it clear that she no longer wants anything to do with the horse and had arranged for it to be pts. The other liveries took on the horse off their own back. The owner has said that she will happily go ahead with her original plans.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Then whilst her intentions are responsible - her actions are not.
The person to take control here - actually - is the YO. It's a disaster waiting to happen.
Nat - I'd have a quite word with the YO, and tell him to get his butt in to gear. He needs to speak with the current owner, ask what day and by whom the mare is to be destroyed, and what arrangements have been made for disposal. He needs to know if she intends to be present - if not who will be responsible for the horse that day. If the owner has made no arrangements and intends to wash her hands of the horse - then she has abandoned it and the welfare organisations need to be involved - or a letter signing it over to the YO given so that he can have the horse destroyed or looked after by himself.
FairyLights
Well-Known Member
This is an excellent post. I agree 100%.
lochpearl
Well-Known Member
Very difficult for you, even though you are keeping out of it, it must be stressful on the yard.
In theory, it does look a bit like she has used the horse and now ready to 'throw it away' however, as the horse is not without it's problems and is unlikely to find a nice honest home, I agree with the owner that pts is the best option. This will ensure that the horse is not taken from sale to sale, ending up beaten, mistreated or worse - on a lorry to France or Italy.
I think that the owner however, should have offered the mare back to the previous owner - before he went on holiday and if he had said he wasn't interested, just to go ahead with her plans. I don't believe she has done the best thing by abandoning it at the yard, with no-one claiming ownership or care for it.
Yes she is in the wrong for how she is dealing with, but she is making the right and selfless decision for the mare to have it pts. The mare will not know anything about it and if people don't give a hoot about it now, with the fact it has been at the yard for a long time, then why would a stranger take it on and give it the life of luxury?
In theory, it does look a bit like she has used the horse and now ready to 'throw it away' however, as the horse is not without it's problems and is unlikely to find a nice honest home, I agree with the owner that pts is the best option. This will ensure that the horse is not taken from sale to sale, ending up beaten, mistreated or worse - on a lorry to France or Italy.
I think that the owner however, should have offered the mare back to the previous owner - before he went on holiday and if he had said he wasn't interested, just to go ahead with her plans. I don't believe she has done the best thing by abandoning it at the yard, with no-one claiming ownership or care for it.
Yes she is in the wrong for how she is dealing with, but she is making the right and selfless decision for the mare to have it pts. The mare will not know anything about it and if people don't give a hoot about it now, with the fact it has been at the yard for a long time, then why would a stranger take it on and give it the life of luxury?
ladyt25
Well-Known Member
I think that's what confuses me about this case Lochpearl. I understand the liveries were appalled the owner was to have the horse PTS but then the owner appears to have gone away/on holiday. Had they originally intended on having the horse PTS before going away? If not then how have the other liveries become responsible for paying for its keep as surely it'd just still be on livery paid for by the owner??
If the liveries feel that strongly that the horse should not be PTS then why don't they / one of them look in to negotiating with the owner about the horse being sold to them or gifted? It seems the owner does not want it but, as amy may said they cannot just abandon it and expect others to care for the horse without first signing over ownership.
It seems though the liveries have jumped in without thinking it all through as they don't actually seem to want to care for the horse long term but don't want the owner to have it PTS either. Therefore what do they actually propose as the best option for this mare? they don't want her, the owner doesn't want her yet they are making it difficult for the owner to have the mare PTS. They either have to decide they are going to take on this mare or they let the owner do what he/she intends on doing - they own the horse after all, it is ultimately their decision whether others agree with it or not.
If the liveries feel that strongly that the horse should not be PTS then why don't they / one of them look in to negotiating with the owner about the horse being sold to them or gifted? It seems the owner does not want it but, as amy may said they cannot just abandon it and expect others to care for the horse without first signing over ownership.
It seems though the liveries have jumped in without thinking it all through as they don't actually seem to want to care for the horse long term but don't want the owner to have it PTS either. Therefore what do they actually propose as the best option for this mare? they don't want her, the owner doesn't want her yet they are making it difficult for the owner to have the mare PTS. They either have to decide they are going to take on this mare or they let the owner do what he/she intends on doing - they own the horse after all, it is ultimately their decision whether others agree with it or not.
not_with_it
Well-Known Member
L will come and pick up the horse and take her to be destroyed if it comes to that. She had made up her mind and then everyone else got involved. L got very upset about the whole situation and everyone talking about her and so when the liveries said they would find her a home she let them. The livery was paid til the end of the week and she left hay and feed for her.
The YO will not see the horse go without and does not agree with the mare being pts. However for once in his life he has been professional about the situation and supports whatever decision is made. If the liveries stop caring for the horse he will contact L who will go ahead with her original plans.
If I were L I would just come and pick the horse up. People will moan but it will soon be forgotten. However I am not getting involved.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Ladyt25 - it's the old owner that's on hols. Not the current one.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Which is why you never tell anyone when you are having a horse put down. Because most people are complete morons, unfortunately with little perspective outside their own little world.
not_with_it
Well-Known Member
Its the old owner who is on holiday, not L. The mare is free to whoever wants her, but the liveries who are looking after her do not want another horse, hence why no one will take ownership. This is another reason why I think it will end up in the wrong home.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
Once again well meaning folk throwing a spanner into the works and interfering without actually thinking things through first.
Theres no way a group of well meaning liveries are going to find the arrangement they have made sustainable, after a few weeks of doing thehorse and shelling out for day to day care they will lose interest and the YO is going to end up with a nuisance horse on the yard.
L needs to get the horse pts nowm do the right thing even if it means she has a few knives in her back for a while. This mare is obviously not a welfare case but by the same token nobody in their right mind is going to take her on full time either.
Sounds harsh but pts is the way to go right now and anyone who finds that unpalatable needs to get out into the real horseworld and take a look at whats really going on out here.
Theres no way a group of well meaning liveries are going to find the arrangement they have made sustainable, after a few weeks of doing thehorse and shelling out for day to day care they will lose interest and the YO is going to end up with a nuisance horse on the yard.
L needs to get the horse pts nowm do the right thing even if it means she has a few knives in her back for a while. This mare is obviously not a welfare case but by the same token nobody in their right mind is going to take her on full time either.
Sounds harsh but pts is the way to go right now and anyone who finds that unpalatable needs to get out into the real horseworld and take a look at whats really going on out here.
tania01
Well-Known Member
Ditto Spaniel.
My OH is very good friends with my horse dentist,he phoned the other night to sort out a day to spend with us,and see to my lots teeth.
He was speaking to the knacker man the week before,he said to him he has PTS in the last 2 weeks 16 HEALTHY horses,people that cannot sell them and can no longer afford to keep them.
People need to wake up and realise whats happening in the real world.
My OH is very good friends with my horse dentist,he phoned the other night to sort out a day to spend with us,and see to my lots teeth.
He was speaking to the knacker man the week before,he said to him he has PTS in the last 2 weeks 16 HEALTHY horses,people that cannot sell them and can no longer afford to keep them.
People need to wake up and realise whats happening in the real world.