Convince me that you can have a comp horse NOT go wrong?

[Lulup]

Having just had really bad news on my third horse in a row I am looking for some help to convince myself that it is possible to have a horse in work for a period of years without the wheels (or legs) falling off?

I would like to hear from people who work/compete their horses regularly and haven't encountered major problems..

We have so much help in terms of the professionals available for every aspect of our horses care and training but basically the demands of a ridden career seem to be too much for many to cope with. I desperately want another but I feel like having thermal imaging or bone scan in addition to a normal vetting/x-rays!!

Tell me about your totally sound amazing horses please..

 

[CaleruxShearer]

I have a 16 year old Novice event horse who has evented and showjumped to Grade B since he was 6 and *touch wood* has only ever had once incident where he was lame (kicked in the field, fractured knee, absolutely fine now)
He is worked 5/6 days a week, he wears boots in front but not behind (bar when he goes xc) and wears overreach boots at the gallops. I do 20/25 mins in the school on the flat with him 2 days a week then he hacks the other 3 days or has a day lunging. He only jumps at home the day before an event or if we have a lesson. This keeps him mentally switched on and touch wood, sound. I cold hose all his legs for a couple of minutes when he's worked hard and bandage him at night during the winter. This prevents his windgalls coming up too big behind and keeps his legs a bit warmer so he doesn't get too stiff. He isn't on any joint supplements. He is shod on a 5 week basis and has quarter clips as his feet drop a bit otherwise.

Best of luck, I know how disheartening it can be, my previous two horses were plagued with soundness injuries with the latter eventually having to be put to sleep due to ongoing suspensory issues.

 

[star]

Sadly on my third horse who's wheels have fallen off in a big way. All for different reasons but still it's so depressing.

 

[becca1305]

I would but I don't want to jinx us . Its me rather than my horses holding us back at the minute as I seem determined to injure myself! Sorry about your boy/girl sending good vibes your way .

 

[milo'n'molly]

I am currently horseless but I had 3 in a row that I didn't really get to do what I wanted with them due to different soundness issues. I sit and look at adverts for horses as have been without one now for a year and I'm itching to get back into it but the financial and time costs and the heartache and disappointment have stopped me so far.
I have decided if I do get a new one it will be smaller than the last ones (all 16.2hh plus) and a native x or ID rather than continental imports.
Sorry it's not what you want to hear but at least you're not alone

 

[Charlie77]

My old mare was backed when she was 2.5yo she went to med advanced dressage before i had her age 14 but she was sound till she was very old she was 33 when i lost her.
My friend same friend i got my old mare from just lost her mare she was 20 but took her to psg dressage she rode her 5/6 days a week and was sound as a bell and lost to colic!
However my last horse was lame at ten my now 6yo has been on a joint suplement from age 3 i wont jump unless on a serface etc etc! And i fully plan to start my yearling on the same siplement when he stats work to.

 

[Orangehorse]

I had a 15 hh TB runt that was as hard as nails and was never lame for three years of eventing and hunting and he had been the same with the previous family. I stupidly sold him to to get a bigger/younger horse that was ALWAYS in trouble.

Also another family member had a similar size/type, that was an Irish import and she had him for several years and he was never, ever lame or off work. I don't think they ever missed a competition through any horse problem.

If you go for another horse look for something with some pony or arab blood, and don't go for anything too big. Does a couple of inches in horse height make that much difference to how high they can jump?

 

[TarrSteps]

Surface area increases by a square, volume by a cube. Therefore there is more force on the bearing areas of larger horses than smaller ones.

There is also an inverse relationship, past a certain point, between athleticism and stability. So a horse will be more likely break if pushed out if it's comfort zone. But very athletic horses place greater strain on themselves even within their capabilities. This includes 'playing' and even resistance behaviours. So a big horse that can jump a house IS more likely to break than a smaller, more limited (which it still more than most people need) horse.

 

[star]

It would be nice if natives didn't break but all of mine have been Welsh Cobs or Welsh Cob crosses and all around the 15.2hh mark. Still all broken. Horses are just likely to break when we ask them to perform.

 

[TarrSteps]

That said, I had a tb that raced at 2, then evented, then sj'ed then did dressage to a decent level, then was a trainer's hack into his mid 20s.

However, he was almost 'perfect' - 16.1, v good conformation, a good but tough mind (competed well but was not easily talked into doing dumb things and would not let himself be physically forced), galloped easily, had no allergies etc. He also had many good aspects to his management. Ridden 6 days/week, sometimes 2x/day (minimal turnout as fence jumped for fun), on varied surfaces but all arena work on very good footing (a real problem here and now, I think), excellent farrier who did him his whole career, shoes off every winter (although little or no time off), lots and lots of attention to detail. Like the riding, easy to manage IF he was comfortable and happy, a potential nightmare if not. Taught me a lot!

 

[TarrSteps]

I didn't say Natives didn't break. Any horse under stress has a good chance of breaking. But super athletic horses, especially if not super carefully managed, are quite likely to break.

 

[star]

I know you didn't but others were saying next time they'd buy something native cross. Sadly it doesn't guarantee soundness no matter how well managed. Athletes break.

 

[Ahrena]

I find just as I get where I really want to get - on each and every one of my horses - they break.

Willow finally got the idea of jumping then broke with hock arthritis. Retired her to showing, 2 weeks before our first county show she went lame and diagnosed with navicular.

Lacey - the minute I registered her bsja and was on a pc SJ team, we started having severe behaviour issues which later were put down to a back/neck injury, but it took a long time to find the problem and it's mentally ruined her.

Squirrel - last year, moved up to novice and started stopping due to his hocks. This year, we just start to go consistent at novice and he starts to stop. Been at the vets 3 days now trying to locate the problem. Vet thinks stifle but god knows what it means now.



Its left me scared about producing my 4yo as can't help but feel its just a ticking time bomb!

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I know I lost my mare a month ago due to hock issues spreading everywhere due to the change in movement. Im now looking slowly for a new one but really im looking for something that has been produced slowly and would prefer it not to have junped under saddle until at least 5. Im planning to do lots of hacking on all surfaces and minimal schooling it won't guarantee anything but its can't harm. Im also sending confo shots to my physio and would consider thermography, I will do all I can to stop the heartbreak but know there is only so much you do.

 

[OwnedbyJoe]

Um, you can..
I have a 19 year old Connemara who has done mid level Pony Club for 13 years and is still going strong and as sound as a bell.
A 12 year old Standardbred who had a successful racing career (60 starts) then started a second career as an endurance horse and stayed sound for everything I asked of him.
And a now rising 8 year old Arab X who has in his second season of 50 mile rides and has so far completed 300 miles in competition without a vet out.
BUT -
1. None of them are particularly big (14hh, 15.1hh and 15.2hh)
2. All of them are dead straight in the lower limb and have very good medial-lateral hoof balance. i'm anal about buying straight legged horses.
3. All are barefoot.
4. They all get AT LEAST 3 months off over summer, in a big paddock in a stable herd; enough time to completley let down physically and mentally.
5. They all get 3 monthly Pentosan shots.
6. They only get worked 3 or 4 days a week.
7. They are all on permanent turnout (horses are not designed to be in stables IMHO).

 

[stencilface]

My sisters 16.1 connie x tb is 22 (I think, might be 23!) and has had a full life. Open pc sj teams aged four, BS to newcomers, lots if odes, would have done novice if we had asked him and still going strong, albeit 90cm and less these days.

Mine on the other hand, 16.1 luso x tb has essentially been broken with three different injuries over the last 3 years. But the physio last time she came essentially said although we have horses, the species has not evolved its legs in order to cope with being more than about 14h, so is not just being native, it's being a smaller native perhaps.

If I can't fix my horse by going the barefoot route, I'm getting a pony next year. Can't really afford it, but had a blinding flash yesterday of getting a rescue pony - happy all round

 

[BeckyD]

I'm afraid my experience have all been doom and gloom. When I was 15 I bought a TBxID, who was brilliant for a year then got an osteo-artritic condition in her neck which required retirement. 6 years as a field ornament until she cracked her pedal bone and x rays showed that the whole thing had disintegrated so it was either a year's box rest and she might be field sound, or PTS. She was in her 20's and hated being in the stable and we couldn't get enough pain meds into her to maintain her appetite so she was PTS.

I then started saving for a new one & bought a 16hh 4yo ex-racer. 5-stage vetting passed (for eventing and team chasing). Had a wonderful year then he fell in the field twice, damaged his SI joint which caused his hind suspensories to go, and then became lame in front as well. Lost him due to long-drawn-out complications following surgery for neurectomy and fasciotomy.

Then had a loan horse, a well-bred WB who had had his hocks or stifles injected as a youngster as he was lame before ever being ridden! He was fine whilst I had him but I didn't know whether he would stand up to long term work.

Then bought a 16hh IDx, 6yo. Brilliant first 6 months until he stumbled and did a very minor check ligament injury (nothing to see on scans but there was a little heat and swelling). Treated it as a full-on check ligament issue and thankfully have had no problems with it. Finally this season achieved my ultimate goal of competing at BE100 and going clear XC. Woohoo! Then I competed him whilst he had a virus (I didn't know), he misjudged a fence, hit it hard and landed heavily, and is now "jarred up" on box rest OK so the latter incident was my fault - I should have w/d when he felt so flat.

Having said all that, my flat trainer has an ex-racer that raced flat, hurdles, steeplechase, then P2P, something like 90+ starts, then converted to dressage aged 15 or so, and is now 19, competing advanced medium and has more BD points than you can shake a stick at. It is possible to find these paragons of soundness....! Don't give up hope.

 

[Goldenstar]

When I was younger I lived abroad for awhile when we returned I had no horses so me and my OH bought one each , it qiuckly became clear the nine yo had got for my OH for hunting was not suitable for him so we swopped and I decided to take them are eventing she was a amazing horse took me me to three star in three years and never missed a competition was never lame in the whole of her time with us .
Although she was built a little croup high she had the most perfect limb conformation I have ever seen straight with perfect symmmatary her limbs and joints where exceptional.
That's why she was so tough and sound despite a lot of mileage in her life those perfect limbs carried her through .

 

[Firewell]

I don't want to use current boy in case I jinx so will use old boy. He went from 7 to the day he died of colic aged 26 without a days lameness and he competed Sj up to foxhunter, eventing, dr, pc teams, horseball, hunting. You name it he did it. We never had his back or saddles checked either just went with what we thought fitted.

 

[Firewell]

Forgot to add he was out of an Arab stallion and a Welsh/TB mare and he had terrible conformation. He moved like he floated on air though.

 

[Supanova]

I've begun to wonder recently whether actually horses are so plagued by lameness because we put shoes on them..........I am by no means a barefoot fanatic and i have shod all my horses in the past and not even thought to do otherwise. I now have a 6 yr old who i've had since she was 3 and she has great feet so i just never needed to put shoes on her....my other horse is going for an MRI scan this week on her front feet so i have been reading about potential rehabilitation programmes such as Rockley Farm. It has really got me thinking about the logic of putting metal shoes on horses and restricting their natural ability to grow feet to support themselves............i can't help wondering that in 20-30 years, the majority of horses will be barefoot. If that does happen, it will be interesting to see if it changes the prevelance of lameness issues in horses. Sorry i know this is slightly off topic!

 

[Scarlett]

I've begun to wonder recently whether actually horses are so plagued by lameness because we put shoes on them..........I am by no means a barefoot fanatic and i have shod all my horses in the past and not even thought to do otherwise. I now have a 6 yr old who i've had since she was 3 and she has great feet so i just never needed to put shoes on her....my other horse is going for an MRI scan this week on her front feet so i have been reading about potential rehabilitation programmes such as Rockley Farm. It has really got me thinking about the logic of putting metal shoes on horses and restricting their natural ability to grow feet to support themselves............i can't help wondering that in 20-30 years, the majority of horses will be barefoot. If that does happen, it will be interesting to see if it changes the prevelance of lameness issues in horses. Sorry i know this is slightly off topic!

Agree 100%... I now have 4 unshod and all are sounder out of shoes than they were in them. Wish I had realized that years ago before the damage had been done.

I can't help but think the way we keep horses isn't helping either, individual turn out in small, flat paddocks, highly processed feed, lack of turnout, young horses in stables instead of out in big fields, constant work on surfaces. Sometimes I think that in trying to care for them well we are actually doing the opposite.

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

Agree 100%... I now have 4 unshod and all are sounder out of shoes than they were in them. Wish I had realized that years ago before the damage had been done.

I can't help but think the way we keep horses isn't helping either, individual turn out in small, flat paddocks, highly processed feed, lack of turnout, young horses in stables instead of out in big fields, constant work on surfaces. Sometimes I think that in trying to care for them well we are actually doing the opposite.

Totally agree with all of this!

 

[timetoride]

Opposite of what you want to hear but I feel exactly the same right now I'm 21 and all I've wanted to do is event at a decent level for the last 9 years, my amazing 14hh had an old tendon injury flare up just as I was being picked for PC open teams so became a broodmare again. Then broke in a string of not-so-talented limited to PN but very sweet horses that ended up in PC type homes, had another talented one break two weeks into owning it- went back to her previous owner to be a broodmare (for a 10th of the cost-I'd hardly done anything with her!) Current amazingly talented unbroken WB just put in six months hard (and fun- mainly just hacking and she lives out!) work getting the most perfect temperament horse to the stage of being able to compete I had the vet out yesterday to find that she is unrideable due to fetlock problems she would have had her whole life (at only 7 years old :'( ) She also has melanomas and sarcoids and don't want to pass on this bone problem so cannot be a broodmare, and after only a week off work shes gone from being the happiest, kindest horse to miserable grumpy and kicking out at the fence. What do I do with her?????? I've pretty much cried for 24 hours and cannot think of any practical ideas I'm at livery so can't afford two, she can't be a companion for someone as she eats half a bale of hay a night and twice daily hard food (plus shes 16.2 and lively not in work!), and can't pts as although lame in the field she isn't (I think) in massive pain- just 3/10ths according to the vet and shes only 7! I have a working pupil placement starting in november but don't know what to do now... I cant take a retired horse with me and if I can't ever get another (as I'm still looking after this retired one on livery) what's the point in learning more. I'm starting to think eventing/competing is simply impossible on a budget. *cries some more* Plus I feel so guilty for teaching this horse to jump and cantering on stubble fields etc which she loved and now is never going to be able to do again. Sorry for hijacking your thread with my selfish whinging OP- just feeling SO depressed for myself+ horse atm

 

[stencilface]

Agree 100%... I now have 4 unshod and all are sounder out of shoes than they were in them. Wish I had realized that years ago before the damage had been done.

I can't help but think the way we keep horses isn't helping either, individual turn out in small, flat paddocks, highly processed feed, lack of turnout, young horses in stables instead of out in big fields, constant work on surfaces. Sometimes I think that in trying to care for them well we are actually doing the opposite.

I'm hoping I can agree with this in a few months time after my horses feet have adapted! He is for the moment being kept in a flattish, smallish paddock to himself just to cut the risk of a herd related injury whilst I deal with his other lameness issues!

 

[Scarlett]

I'm hoping I can agree with this in a few months time after my horses feet have adapted! He is for the moment being kept in a flattish, smallish paddock to himself just to cut the risk of a herd related injury whilst I deal with his other lameness issues!

I hope so too!

I know we do all of these things for our own convenience, but sometimes I think it comes ahead of the horses welfare and we suffer for that when we ask questions of their bodies and minds and they can't cope.

I have exracers who all came to me straight from racing, they all have soundness issues of some sort and it's constant effort to keep them going and keep them sound. I do believe though that the work we do with them should make them sounder and stronger, and that coupled with the right management for the horse should lengthen their useful life, not shorten it... it's just a very hard balance to strike.

I'm going back to 24/7 t/o for mine after 3 years of stabling, we shall see if that helps or hinders our situation, especially my older boy who is arthritic and struggling to keep his body up with his rather active mind.

 

[TarrSteps]

. . . it's constant effort to keep them going and keep them sound. .

I think actually this is the crux of the matter as much as anything. This is the same for almost everyone and I think many people would be amazed how much thought and effort goes into this on a professional yard. It's not a case of only worrying about it so the horse can work at a high level, it's a case of worrying about it so the horse can work, period.

Many people who have grown up with horses do a lot of their "management" without thinking so, from their perspective, they aren't doing anything extraordinary. They are also confident communicating with their vets, farriers etc and tend not to take a million opinions on board. (Other people being right - for them - does not make you wrong for you.) Their system is so familiar it ceases to feel like a system. This is much harder to replicate for people who come to competition horses later or who live the sort of very mobile lives we live now, often keeping horses in semi-urban environments.

This is no guarantee, of course. You are only ever working on the margins.

Now the bit that is going to upset people. . .we DON'T do "what is best" for horses. We do what we WANT to do with horses. We keep them to ride them and compete them. By doing this we contribute to their wear and tear - to deny this is simply delusional. The emphasis has to be to support them for use. This may mean compromises. Fine. We acknowledge those and do the best we can to accommodate them.

And, while I'm on it, perfection is not going to happen. Many, many competition horses are not 100% sound they are FUNCTIONALLY sound. Many are functionally sound only with the aforementioned attention to detail. It is not reasonable to expect that there will never be a glitch and not every glitch is the end of the world.

And, now I'm really on it I do think it is interesting that few people consider that a horse pre backing might have an injury/issue and yet, after backing, horses "only" break from external sources. Horses always hurt themselves in the paddock or it's the farrier's fault . . . Of course neither is totally true and we can only do our best to manage both areas of risk, but I do think being honest with ourselves is a big part of managing these situations effectively.

Which is not to say I think people are at fault for horses breaking. They are inherently fragile and ill designed to withstand the pressures we put on them. C'est la vie. But I think we have a lot more people in the industry now who are simply not used to the rate at which horses break, especially they kind of horses many people have only had access to in the last couple of generations. Internet forums don't help because it seems like "everyone" has a broken horse when, in fact, it's only a small sample over a wide area.

I do think there is something to be said for a more old fashioned attitude sometimes. When we couldn't find problems like we can today we either turned away (for a long time by current standards) or kept going. The horse either got better or it didn't. And, amazingly, sometimes even the hopeless causes got better! (And the simple ones never did.)

 

[stencilface]

Internet forums don't help because it seems like "everyone" has a broken horse when, in fact, it's only a small sample over a wide area.

Indeed, I think many posters first post on here are of the 'Help my horse is broken' variety. With regards to turning away, mine is now having 3-4 months off in the field (minimum, if the winter is rubbish, longer!) having already had 4 months box rest this year. I'm hoping this will help. If not, he'll have longer, and then might have to look at retirement if that doesn't fix it.

 

[TarrSteps]

Indeed, I think many posters first post on here are of the 'Help my horse is broken' variety. With regards to turning away, mine is now having 3-4 months off in the field (minimum, if the winter is rubbish, longer!) having already had 4 months box rest this year. I'm hoping this will help. If not, he'll have longer, and then might have to look at retirement if that doesn't fix it.

I have seen it take a year or more (depending on the situation) out in a field with company and varied terrain. And often the horse does not look better for it initially! I'm not going to get on to the "good ole days" wagon but I do think we used to be a bit hardier about chucking them out and seeing what happened. I understand this is not possible for many people now - and it is far from a cure all! - but I've seen some amazing things come "right enough".

 

[pearcider]

I have a TB x Han she is now 19

I evented her up to 2 star until she was 13. then sold her to a JR who did BYRDS on her...I now own her again (brought her back to retire safe) She is on loan to a lovely lady how does BE on her. On the weekend she came 2nd at the area festival in Kent. She would skip round a BE now if asked but I feel I owe it to her not to event her now as she is older

We also have a 13yr eventer who Ive evented every year since she was 6 previous to that she hunted...she is 7/8TB.

I am very very strict with how mine are looked after in the season..to the point of timing all work done with them. We tailor each horses work load depending on how they are to get fit, what they are doing (even if its just very low key stuff) and legs etc Im not afraid to tell an owner if the horse is not doing enough or indeed doing too much

If a horse needs to be shod every 3 weeks I will have them shod every 3 we also have a fab physio on hand. Feed is kept as simple as possible but each horse is treated as an individual.

we dont fuss but treat them as athletes. Im not made of money but do believe you only get out what you put in so I try my hardest...


ps I find keeping myself sound harder than the horses (people who know me will laugh at this!!)