Convince me that you can have a comp horse NOT go wrong?

[ester]

Insurance doesn't help the chuck them out and give it time technique either.

I also definitely think that we do what is best for us, which more than previously is having them in work and shod all year round. I think if I were to start again I would be keen to try and give a quieter life/a break from shoes for part of the year (if I needed them shod).

 

[Scarlett]

I have seen it take a year or more (depending on the situation) out in a field with company and varied terrain. And often the horse does not look better for it initially! I'm not going to get on to the "good ole days" wagon but I do think we used to be a bit hardier about chucking them out and seeing what happened. I understand this is not possible for many people now - and it is far from a cure all! - but I've seen some amazing things come "right enough".

That comes because of insurance companies and their 1 year limit on claims. I had 3 phone calls from my insurers when P was diagnosed and turned away all to explain to me that after a year the claim was shut and they would pay no more for diagnosis or treatment so I had to do it then or not at all. So I chose not at all and 18 month later have a very sound looking horse who will be back to work in a couple of months. The end result is the one I wanted, even if it took time.

 

[stencilface]

I never even thought about the pressure from insurance companies! After having the acupuncturist (so also a vet) not treat my horse due to a front leg lameness (after having shoes off a week so likely footiness) and tell me to call out my normal vet to investigate it, and recommend more box rest I'm doing neither of those! I've done 4 months box rest being preggers, and despite the vet saying that having a new baby, so not being able to ride was a 'great time for doing box rest' I beg to differ quite frankly - I want a low maintenance horse through the winter, not a higher maintenance one! Call me lazy if you will, but I can't face anymore of it! :redface3:

(Sorry OP for taking it off on a tangent, and a personal whinge )

 

[TarrSteps]

ps I find keeping myself sound harder than the horses (people who know me will laugh at this!!)

I am indeed laughing, but hollowly, with a knowing nod of recognition.

 

[TPO]

Agree with Scarletts post too.

I too can recall previous horses that I never had any issues with and were as hardy as they come but since 2007 I've had/ am having a never ending nightmare. I do wonder if part of the reason is that I now know more.

Before I blindly trusted the " experts" and thought I was a great owner for doing as they advised. Now I'm older with a lot more training and experience, not to mention questions, due to multiple reasons I no longer trust the " experts" and if I'd known then what I know now then 1- I'd still have one, if not two, of the horses I lost and 2- maybe the ' sound' ones weren't quite as sound as I remember. Sometimes ignorance is bliss...

Currently I'm in a situation with an abnormally broken horse that two different practices haven't been able to diagnose let alone fix. Current one openly admits to having no clue but what confuses me is that they have absolutely no interest in trying to find out. Simple washing of hands. I've done/ doing variations of shoes off, turned away, in work and have absolutely no where to turn; hence this outpouring!

In short not only do you have to be careful but you need to be lucky enough to have a good team behind you. I've no idea how top level horses are kept going consistently but would love to learn!

 

[hollyandivy123]

what i have noticed over the years is horses are getting bigger, looking at some of the younger horses which are for sale at the moment, some seem to have been there and have done a lot for their age and if you look at their breeding they still have some growing to go.

i have issues with youngsters being placed on the walker whilst they are still in the early development, not in the sense i think it is good to get youngster use to things but, i have seen yearlings put on for a large part of the winter as there is not turn out at the yard the owner has their ridden horse. a large proportion of the competition horses have warm blood in them which is a late maturing horse.

this does not rule out just plain bad luck, we chucked out a show horse for a holiday and a wind down and they came in with a splint, looked at everyday, not lame and then there it was....!

and by the way OP i am not saying you pushed your horse to hard etc, the above is just a general observation of how the horse world has changed over the years, when we broke and the horse had basic control a lot of the early years was spent hacking out, to gain worldly experience and not to do much on a bend with a young horse. hacking is a very good way to work through the different tempos in walk and trot, and if nothing is on the road very shallow shoulder in and leg yields, but saying this it was last century.. not quite before the invention of the motor car

 

[DonkeyClub]

Managing and riding the sport horse so it stays sound is a skill and expertise that many people do not have, sadly.
Ex racers are a different kettle of fish as they have been managed so wrongly from day one - so once theyre out of racing i do take my hat off to anyone that can get them staying sound and performing!!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Managing and riding the sport horse so it stays sound is a skill and expertise that many people do not have, sadly.
Ex racers are a different kettle of fish as they have been managed so wrongly from day one - so once theyre out of racing i do take my hat off to anyone that can get them staying sound and performing!!

Well, thus far CS hasn't missed a days work in 4 years. He's working GP, competing PSG. He ran only four times but still, backed at 2yo is no easy start. I am very aware of ground, of warming up, cooling down, cold hosing legs, taking every precaution I can.

 

[nikkimariet]

Well, thus far CS hasn't missed a days work in 4 years. He's working GP, competing PSG. He ran only four times but still, backed at 2yo is no easy start. I am very aware of ground, of warming up, cooling down, cold hosing legs, taking every precaution I can.

And Fig! Raced for 7 years without missing a beat, is now 9 competing Elem training Adv and not pulled a sickie thus far

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

And Fig! Raced for 7 years without missing a beat, is now 9 competing Elem training Adv and not pulled a sickie thus far

All.of.my.limbs.are.crossed ( and all wooden items touched) lol!!!!

Neither of them had best produce a sicknote now.......

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

have been thinking about this more, and do think a lot more than people realise is down to routine, and attention to detail rather than fancy gadgets or luck.

thinking about a lot of people i know, who seem to have very bad luck with horses, and the majority (not all, but most) are either holding down a job with incredibly long hours, or a job and a family. The horses have to slot in, and every thing is done a million miles an hour. This is absolutely NOT saying that they dont do the absolute best they can but:
The horses sometimes do 5 days in a row and then nothing for a week, perhaps ill kids, big project at work etc get in the way.
some days they are out all day, others half a day,others not at all depending on childcare or working hours.
shows are slotted in on *free* weekends as and when, there is no planned build up to allow the horse to peak at that point.
lessons are as and when they can be fitted in, time and money wise.
most are on livery so dealing with perhaps a surface that isnt levelled often enough, and less than ideal turnout conditions, eg sloppy clay mud or frozen ruts.

although i guess this probably describes the vast majority of the horse owning population, i do think all these little things makes a diff in the big picture.

personally, i am very lucky that myself andf NMT have a small but close support group and thus the above issues are adressed before they have a negative impact:

the horses have a very strict day to day routine, know when they are going out, know when they are coming in. know when its feed time, know when its work time, so stress and anticipation are kept to a minimum. no gate hanging, or hooning round the field getting worked up etc.

we are very lucky in that we have help on the yard, and they are just as OCD as we are so every tiny nick is dealt with, cleaned, and reported to us, as soon as they see it. The horses can come in early if the weather is bad etc, to a certain extent things CAN revolve around them, which is unusual for most people that work.

between the 4 of us its noted almost instantly if one of them has drank less/more, not eaten up, made an unusual mess or an unusual lack of mess, if they arent grazing normally or are tucked up etc. Its noted almost before anyone else would pick it up, so nothing ever escalates to a big issue.

They have a fairly set routine of 2 days work, 1 day off or a walk hack, and each weeks work programme is set out/discussed at the start of that week.
We try to work a different muscle group each half session so fatigue and soreness doesnt set in.

The build up to important shows is also planned with military precision so that the horses have had enough exposure but are still fresh, have run through the relevant tests if needed etc.

what i do think makes a huge diff is just how often (daily) NMT and I are able to discuss (and tweak if needed) the horses performance, work regime, feed, rugs etc etc etc to the Nth degree. No stone is left un-turned, nothing is *too* small to be considered etc.


hmmmm, loads to think about!

 

[ArcticFox]

have been thinking about this more, and do think a lot more than people realise is down to routine, and attention to detail rather than fancy gadgets or luck.

thinking about a lot of people i know, who seem to have very bad luck with horses, and the majority (not all, but most) are either holding down a job with incredibly long hours, or a job and a family. The horses have to slot in, and every thing is done a million miles an hour. This is absolutely NOT saying that they dont do the absolute best they can but:
The horses sometimes do 5 days in a row and then nothing for a week, perhaps ill kids, big project at work etc get in the way.
some days they are out all day, others half a day,others not at all depending on childcare or working hours.
shows are slotted in on *free* weekends as and when, there is no planned build up to allow the horse to peak at that point.
lessons are as and when they can be fitted in, time and money wise.
most are on livery so dealing with perhaps a surface that isnt levelled often enough, and less than ideal turnout conditions, eg sloppy clay mud or frozen ruts.

although i guess this probably describes the vast majority of the horse owning population, i do think all these little things makes a diff in the big picture.

personally, i am very lucky that myself andf NMT have a small but close support group and thus the above issues are adressed before they have a negative impact:

the horses have a very strict day to day routine, know when they are going out, know when they are coming in. know when its feed time, know when its work time, so stress and anticipation are kept to a minimum. no gate hanging, or hooning round the field getting worked up etc.

we are very lucky in that we have help on the yard, and they are just as OCD as we are so every tiny nick is dealt with, cleaned, and reported to us, as soon as they see it. The horses can come in early if the weather is bad etc, to a certain extent things CAN revolve around them, which is unusual for most people that work.

between the 4 of us its noted almost instantly if one of them has drank less/more, not eaten up, made an unusual mess or an unusual lack of mess, if they arent grazing normally or are tucked up etc. Its noted almost before anyone else would pick it up, so nothing ever escalates to a big issue.

They have a fairly set routine of 2 days work, 1 day off or a walk hack, and each weeks work programme is set out/discussed at the start of that week.
We try to work a different muscle group each half session so fatigue and soreness doesnt set in.

The build up to important shows is also planned with military precision so that the horses have had enough exposure but are still fresh, have run through the relevant tests if needed etc.

what i do think makes a huge diff is just how often (daily) NMT and I are able to discuss (and tweak if needed) the horses performance, work regime, feed, rugs etc etc etc to the Nth degree. No stone is left un-turned, nothing is *too* small to be considered etc.


hmmmm, loads to think about!

I agree with this although my horses have currently cost me alot with insurance claims over the last 18 months and they are kept in a pretty strict routine.

out by 7.30am, in around 6.30pm, ridden most days except when the weather is bad as its not productive. I have a good farrier, vet, physio, instructor. I have regular lessons (weekly) and consider their nutrition etc. They are trotted up daily to check for lameness, weight taped (and weigh bridged as I have one at work) and everything is monitored closely. I am the only one to do them, although I do have someone who is more OCD than me to help out (when working late etc) which is fab but I have still had around £10k of vets bill over the last 18months - septic joint, fractured tooth, septic joint (different horse, different companion), colic, cellulitis, gastric ulcers, hock injury.

Their exercise is also pretty fixed (although can be flexible), flat work, hacking, gallop/hill work and jumping are all planned and put in my diary so I know what I'm doing when. to be honest I couldn't manage it if I didn't as I work full time.

That said, I think we sometimes can be in danger of thinking too much, and making changes too often. it can take months for a change of feed to have an effect on a horse and I hear about people who change it weekly as they think it makes a difference. Same with bit/bridle/saddle alterations. Sometimes the horse has learned behaviour that they need to forget before real changes are noticed.

I am a bit saddened to hear in a few posts that people have lost faith in experts. I for one think those who have studied for a lot time are worth listening to and I do have regular conversations with my farrier, vet, instructor etc as I deem them to be very knowledgable. perhaps I'm lucky to have a good support network?

 

[TarrSteps]

And I would say PS's routine is about normal for most successful professional yards or amateurs competing well at a decent level. Sure, there are people that manage without that level of prioritisation but even those cases are often where people do have a system, they're just so used to it they don't notice.

I do think footing is a big issue. People here seem to have the idea that riding on 'surface' is inherently damaging but, with a different perspective, I don't agree. What is damaging is riding on BAD surfaces. Surfaces here often get judged solely on their ability to allow people to ride in wet weather, which means there are a lot of poorly built, poorly maintained schools about and people are happy to do work on them that they would not do on a rutted/hard/boggy field simply because the horse won't slip.

Of course, horses have to live somewhere and options are always going to be limited. Most pros would choose a good surface over 24/7 perfect turnout, which is not the choice many single owners would make. Although that brings us back to PS's point about prioritising because if there are days you won't be able to work a horse it becomes more important for it to be out. . .

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

absolutely TS, and i think is SO much harder to be able to control all these variables when the horses are in livery-easier to guarantee a level well maintained surface at home with only 3 well schooled horses working on it, than a big yard where there are kids hooning round, people lunging on the same circle for ages, people wearing a deep track etc.
you would have to rake it by hand before every ride and that would be hugely hard work.

i do also take your point that when you have been doing it SO long, the obsessive routine just becomes the norm. i cant imagine doing them any other way.

 

[Tr0uble]

have been thinking about this more, and do think a lot more than people realise is down to routine, and attention to detail rather than fancy gadgets or luck.

thinking about a lot of people i know, who seem to have very bad luck with horses, and the majority (not all, but most) are either holding down a job with incredibly long hours, or a job and a family. The horses have to slot in, and every thing is done a million miles an hour. This is absolutely NOT saying that they dont do the absolute best they can but:
The horses sometimes do 5 days in a row and then nothing for a week, perhaps ill kids, big project at work etc get in the way.
some days they are out all day, others half a day,others not at all depending on childcare or working hours.
shows are slotted in on *free* weekends as and when, there is no planned build up to allow the horse to peak at that point.
lessons are as and when they can be fitted in, time and money wise.
most are on livery so dealing with perhaps a surface that isnt levelled often enough, and less than ideal turnout conditions, eg sloppy clay mud or frozen ruts.

although i guess this probably describes the vast majority of the horse owning population, i do think all these little things makes a diff in the big picture.

personally, i am very lucky that myself andf NMT have a small but close support group and thus the above issues are adressed before they have a negative impact:

the horses have a very strict day to day routine, know when they are going out, know when they are coming in. know when its feed time, know when its work time, so stress and anticipation are kept to a minimum. no gate hanging, or hooning round the field getting worked up etc.

we are very lucky in that we have help on the yard, and they are just as OCD as we are so every tiny nick is dealt with, cleaned, and reported to us, as soon as they see it. The horses can come in early if the weather is bad etc, to a certain extent things CAN revolve around them, which is unusual for most people that work.

between the 4 of us its noted almost instantly if one of them has drank less/more, not eaten up, made an unusual mess or an unusual lack of mess, if they arent grazing normally or are tucked up etc. Its noted almost before anyone else would pick it up, so nothing ever escalates to a big issue.

They have a fairly set routine of 2 days work, 1 day off or a walk hack, and each weeks work programme is set out/discussed at the start of that week.
We try to work a different muscle group each half session so fatigue and soreness doesnt set in.

The build up to important shows is also planned with military precision so that the horses have had enough exposure but are still fresh, have run through the relevant tests if needed etc.

what i do think makes a huge diff is just how often (daily) NMT and I are able to discuss (and tweak if needed) the horses performance, work regime, feed, rugs etc etc etc to the Nth degree. No stone is left un-turned, nothing is *too* small to be considered etc.


hmmmm, loads to think about!

I think you're spot on....and also with the posts you've put after this one I'm quoting.

I'm going to leave Snip out of this as he had a brain tumopur....so slightly different! But Rhythm? I bought a well bred, hardy type, young horse and have had him on an obsessive routine....he has the very best of everything, therapies, barefoot, M2M saddle, checked regularly, regular lessons.....

But I'm on livery, on ground that is less than ideal, surface that is good, but could be better.....with other riders who don't look after it so well (so don't rake after they jump, ride round the edge permanently so there's a big ridge!!!)

And I have a horse with a knackered suspensory. I've done everything I can tokeep my horse sound, but i think the factors out of my control have probably been what's done it.

I also think you make a good point about having someone else always looking too...i don't have that.

One day I will have land. Until then I'm at the mercy of livery and mixed turn out

Funnily enough, previous horses have been on livery, but smaller yards where I've had my own field to manage etc...and never had an unsound horse!

Oh, and Rhythm's pneumonia last year.......a livery was moved in with a virus (other horse ended up being put down) and R was unlucky and caught it....

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

yes exctly, had it been YOUR land, that horse would have been properly isolated initially to prevent it being passed on.

as much as i hate it, individual turnout with good fencing is another must have i think. even if they dont actually kick, the amount that big mixed herds play and scrap, inevitably leads to cuts, nicks, bangs etc which must take their toll over time. Plus they can easily sprain something chasing and playing and slipping.
again, at home, we can keep them so they can see but not touch each other, in mud free paddocks, with so much grass they dont get bored-far harder to manage on livery.

slightly off at a tangent, but with more and more horses being imported, and with people becoming more aware of different breeds, are people always buying the most suitable horse for the job? to a cetain degree a lw/mw sports horse type of any breeding is a good choice for most mid level disciplines, eg a native, arab, irish or WB crossed with TB blood should be athletic enough to cope with most things.
But is it fair to expect the very heavy, less athletic breeds, to go up the ladder dressage/sj/eventing when their bodies are just not build to do it, to keep pushing them to the limit? I do see some injuries and think it was almost inevitable, the horse was not built to do the job is was being trained for.
if people are serious about a certain sport, its going to lessen the chance of injury to buy a horse built to find it easy or at least take that in to consideration?
to a degree CS and Fig are doing a job they werent meant for, but both are uphil,LW frame, athletic, enough for it not to tax them. CS will not be pushed to do tight piris or really sit in the piaffe as that i think will break him. Fig will not be pushed to passage for a 9 for similar reasons.
They were bought with dresage in mind, but we saw many other TB's that would have broken down by now as they were just not built to anything bar run fast!!!!!
Sometimes i think people are quite unaware of their particular horses weak areas and how much they can realistically be improved, and that leads to over exertion, which when repeated, becomes an injury?

sorry, massive tangent!

 

[Scarlett]

slightly off at a tangent, but with more and more horses being imported, and with people becoming more aware of different breeds, are people always buying the most suitable horse for the job? to a cetain degree a lw/mw sports horse type of any breeding is a good choice for most mid level disciplines, eg a native, arab, irish or WB crossed with TB blood should be athletic enough to cope with most things.
But is it fair to expect the very heavy, less athletic breeds, to go up the ladder dressage/sj/eventing when their bodies are just not build to do it, to keep pushing them to the limit? I do see some injuries and think it was almost inevitable, the horse was not built to do the job is was being trained for.
if people are serious about a certain sport, its going to lessen the chance of injury to buy a horse built to find it easy or at least take that in to consideration?
to a degree CS and Fig are doing a job they werent meant for, but both are uphil,LW frame, athletic, enough for it not to tax them. CS will not be pushed to do tight piris or really sit in the piaffe as that i think will break him. Fig will not be pushed to passage for a 9 for similar reasons.
They were bought with dresage in mind, but we saw many other TB's that would have broken down by now as they were just not built to anything bar run fast!!!!!
Sometimes i think people are quite unaware of their particular horses weak areas and how much they can realistically be improved, and that leads to over exertion, which when repeated, becomes an injury?

sorry, massive tangent!

People either aren't aware of the weak areas or are unwilling to admit their horses have them, then they do nothing to try and either strengthen the horse in those areas or look at the work the horse needs to be doing and then figure out how best to get the horse to that point with the least amount of stress. Too many adopt a one size fits all routine and just keep kicking when they hit a problem and then only stop when the horse breaks. Seen it too many times now.

I have 4 Tb's, I love them. But none of them could do the type of work CS and Fig do, not without a level of management and training I just could not put in and sustain. So they don't, simple.

 

[ArcticFox]

as much as i hate it, individual turnout with good fencing is another must have i think. even if they dont actually kick, the amount that big mixed herds play and scrap, inevitably leads to cuts, nicks, bangs etc which must take their toll over time. Plus they can easily sprain something chasing and playing and slipping.
again, at home, we can keep them so they can see but not touch each other, in mud free paddocks, with so much grass they dont get bored-far harder to manage on livery.

they don't even have to be in big herds both my septic joints were caused by two horses out in the field. one kick was from a horse without shoes on and the other was caused by a horse with shoes who rolled too close and caught the hock when he flipped over!

Now they go out in separate fields but they do have a mini pony each for a companion - yet still the blimmin 4yo comes in with marks on his legs/chest from playing with a pony that isn't even up to his elbows in height!! (and its unshod!)

 

[TarrSteps]

Not really a tangent PS, 'fit for purpose' (or 'singing pig') conversations do come into it. If you have a horse that's struggling/going to struggle to cope with the demands you're wanting to place on it then you're likely looking at a choice between moving the horse on our tailoring your expectations in order to keep it.

The fact is people will make their own choices but they are choices, even if they are constrained by time, money, other commitments etc. I do see a lot of people who spread themselves very thin and can't/won't get help but again, that's their choice and they are well within their rights to make it.

I think there is something in many horse people that makes them eternal optimists. They assume everything will be okay right up until it isn't. I would say this is not true of most successful, enduring professional set ups. Someone - quite often not the rider - frets over the details. They don't necessarily panic, they accept that it's a constant process and that when **** does happen it's about damage limitation and patience.

 

[BeckyD]

Not really a tangent PS, 'fit for purpose' (or 'singing pig') conversations do come into it. If you have a horse that's struggling/going to struggle to cope with the demands you're wanting to place on it then you're likely looking at a choice between moving the horse on our tailoring your expectations in order to keep it.

This is a key point for me. Some of us don't have enough experience to know what a horse's limitations are. For instance take my own horse. He is built for jumping. Physio, osteo, 2 vets and 2 equine masseurs have all gone out of their way to say how well he is built for jumping. I take their word for it, but can see what angles they are pointing out etc.

But, bearing in mind I now have a horse who is "jarred up" after jumping as far as fence 4 on a BE XC course, then going for a solo gallop, but also having landed heavily after a mistake at a fence, do I make a connection to think:

a) horse isn't capable of this level of work
b) horse effectively took a misstep on landing at the fence he misjudged and it's nothing more than that
c) horse took a misstep on landing but the damage had already started as he wasn't capable of the level of work?

I'm not asking for an answer (if you take the view that anything we sk horses to do is beyond what they should be capable of then you would go with a) or c)). Just demonstrating that there are many different conclusions that can be reached and that several people might reach different conclusions. FWIW, the vet thinks it is b) i.e. just the result of a minor incident.

How many riders these days have enough true, genuine knowledge to be able to make that dispassionate assessment of their own horse (or indeed someone else's)?

 

[Scarlett]

How many riders these days have enough true, genuine knowledge to be able to make that dispassionate assessment of their own horse (or indeed someone else's)?

It appears not as many as there should be but why a lack of knowledge - surely as riders and owners we should be seeking it out? Trying to educate ourselves to make things better/easier for our horses and ourselves? Are trainers to scared to point these things out for fear of loosing clients? Is it people not wanting to admit 'failure'? Or is it plain old fashioned ignorance? Or are the majority of the horses now available to us just not up to the job?

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

i know you didnt want an A, but i think if it happens once, go with B..........if it happens twice i would be looking more carefully.

you can only do the best with what you have, be that tailoring the work, increasing *maintenance* or if you have to, sell and buy something more suited.

i think the biggest problems arise when people start with, ie buy or breed, something 100% not suitable for what the rider aspires to achieve. Its a different kettle of fish to buy a horse and then in 5 years *take up* dressage or eventing etc. in the latter case you would have to be more aware of the horses limitations, in the case of actually buying something SO unsuitable, i think you are on a hiding to nothing unless your dreams can be toned down to suit the horse, but then both parties end up frustrated i think?

how often do we watch vids back of our own horses working/training/competing with a very critical eye and try to work out which areas need to strengthen up to allow progress? not just XYZ needs to be better, but that a specific area of the horse needs target work to build up, before XYZ can be improved?

slight tangent again, but how many people really understand how a training programe works, how certain exercises are not just for the sake of making it show ring perfect but to actually supple and strengthen the horse, to make it MORE resiliant, STRONGER?
i read somewhere that each schooling session should be a cross between pilates and a gym session, making the horses body more comfortable and more able to stand up to competing, that schooling should work WITH physio/chiro, not that physio/chiro is needed to sort out bad schooling...........yet a lot of the schooling sessions i watch either do nothing of the sort, or bear no relation to the horses fitness/strength/suppleness and just skirt round the edge of being dangerous/injury causing in themself.

sorry that reads as absolute garbage but im sure a couple of you understand what im getting at?!

i try and watch vids of the boys weekly, to look for changes (positive or negative) in movement and way of going, to see what i need to change in myself, and what areas they need to work on (schooling, movement and muscular).

 

[TarrSteps]

We had a conversation on here recently about how it 'takes a village' to make good horses. I think the thing is you can't take one person's advice, you have to assess it all situationally. I've seen vets give some very dodgy training advice and trainers are not vets!

What did surprise me when I entered a different millieu was how unwilling professionals are to work together in many cases. This was new to me! The owner becomes a sort of central clearing house of information, which is very tough, especially for a relatively inexperienced owner. It takes a lot of time to build up a group you trust and learn to manage them.

 

[Scarlett]

i know you didnt want an A, but i think if it happens once, go with B..........if it happens twice i would be looking more carefully.

you can only do the best with what you have, be that tailoring the work, increasing *maintenance* or if you have to, sell and buy something more suited.

i think the biggest problems arise when people start with, ie buy or breed, something 100% not suitable for what the rider aspires to achieve. Its a different kettle of fish to buy a horse and then in 5 years *take up* dressage or eventing etc. in the latter case you would have to be more aware of the horses limitations, in the case of actually buying something SO unsuitable, i think you are on a hiding to nothing unless your dreams can be toned down to suit the horse, but then both parties end up frustrated i think?

how often do we watch vids back of our own horses working/training/competing with a very critical eye and try to work out which areas need to strengthen up to allow progress? not just XYZ needs to be better, but that a specific area of the horse needs target work to build up, before XYZ can be improved?

slight tangent again, but how many people really understand how a training programe works, how certain exercises are not just for the sake of making it show ring perfect but to actually supple and strengthen the horse, to make it MORE resiliant, STRONGER?
i read somewhere that each schooling session should be a cross between pilates and a gym session, making the horses body more comfortable and more able to stand up to competing, that schooling should work WITH physio/chiro, not that physio/chiro is needed to sort out bad schooling...........yet a lot of the schooling sessions i watch either do nothing of the sort, or bear no relation to the horses fitness/strength/suppleness and just skirt round the edge of being dangerous/injury causing in themself.

sorry that reads as absolute garbage but im sure a couple of you understand what im getting at?!

i try and watch vids of the boys weekly, to look for changes (positive or negative) in movement and way of going, to see what i need to change in myself, and what areas they need to work on (schooling, movement and muscular).

Makes perfect sense to me - that's an excellent insight into the attitude needed to achieve what you have with the horses you have.

.... and here was me thinking it was the matchy...

 

[Goldenstar]

One thing that's definatly very important is to be fanactical about the symmetry of the horse any difference need to assessed quickly reason found ( if possible !!!!! ) and a plan made to even things up its seems to me that the more you learn the more you need to learn the less comfortable it is .
Years ago I was not in love with horse physios but times have moved on and I have access to a very good one now whose imput into the horses regularily including the work plans her regular visits looking at differences and changes not just reacting to things going wrong is really helping .

 

[TarrSteps]

I don't think relying on trainers is the answer. Most instructors here see their students only infrequently and have little or no knowledge of or input into other areas of the horses' lives. It's not the same as having your horse with a pro, where input is ongoing.

And there are pluses and minuses to each approach!

I do think this starts to approach getting bogged down in the details, too. If YOU are looking after your own horses then the person who knows them best is YOU. This does not preclude research, discussion, independent assessment etc. and yes, good resources are important. But the actual decisions - and ultimate responsibility - lies with the owner unless they are specifically paying someone else to do that job.

 

[Orangehorse]

I've heard it said that every schooling session should be physiotherapy for the horse, strengthening, stretching, building areas that need building.

 

[TarrSteps]

One thing that's definatly very important is to be fanactical about the symmetry of the horse any difference need to assessed quickly reason found ( if possible !!!!! ) and a plan made to even things up its seems to me that the more you learn the more you need to learn the less comfortable it is .
Years ago I was not in love with horse physios but times have moved on and I have access to a very good one now whose imput into the horses regularily including the work plans her regular visits looking at differences and changes not just reacting to things going wrong is really helping .

It think this is a Very Big Deal. Noting how the horse is developing - or not - is essential.

The problem is though, then you have to decide what to do with this information and how address concerns.

As a note, Sue Dyson made a comment in H&H not long ago that she feels about 80% of working horses have some sort of subclinical 'issue'. There was general wailing but I'd say that dovetails with my experience and education. MOST horses have something that is 'not quite right'. You improve what you can and work around the rest. Plus sa change. . .

When people talk about the good old days, it makes me laugh. It didn't used to be that unusual to see, say, event horses that would not tolerate sitting trot. So people didn't do it. They schooled rising and hovered in the test. And the horses did the jumping bits okay so no one looked too hard. Nowadays those horses would be off for a work up asap and certainly would not be deemed fit to event! I'm not saying ths w was a good thing, but maybe some of what has changed is more people know more? You know what they say about a little learning. . .

Right, off to ride some horses.

 

[BeckyD]

It appears not as many as there should be but why a lack of knowledge - surely as riders and owners we should be seeking it out? Trying to educate ourselves to make things better/easier for our horses and ourselves? Are trainers to scared to point these things out for fear of loosing clients? Is it people not wanting to admit 'failure'? Or is it plain old fashioned ignorance? Or are the majority of the horses now available to us just not up to the job?

The sad thing is that some of us (most of us?) desperately *want* that knowledge. We seek it out. But as you say, as one-horse owners, who work 45-50 hours a week in a full-time job, there are very few hours left/opportunities to learn more from the sorts of people with the numbers of horses who can teach us these things. Instead we learn it as and when we can, soaking up the knowledge we learn, but also learning with our own horses through trial and error. There is no black and white with training. "There is more than one way to Rome". Everyone involved with horses has a different opinion; it is only through much experience that we learn to form our own views on what is right or wrong for each horse. Not every trainer is perfect themselves, nor in a position to point these things out.

 

[BeckyD]

sell and buy something more suited.

I completely agree with the whole of your post - that is exactly the point of view I come from and hopefully why all the horses under my care have gone from arriving with sore backs/muscles and soon get gold stars from chiro/osteo/physio/vet for how supple/well developed they are (bar the odd occasion - which then leads to further analysis and schooling work to correct any minor issues).

I have only quoted the above bit as that's the bit that I would like to discuss... Too few of us have that knowledge. Where and how can inexperienced people (and I mean that term to include myself truthfully - I have had only 6 horses over a nearly 30-year period so still class myself as inexperienced) get that knowledge? The fact that so many people are desperately sad about having a broken horse means there is surely a huge body of people wanting to know how to not end up in that situation again. Buy the right horse - obviously the first place to start! But where to begin on even that "simple" task?!

I love these kinds of discussions. Gets the old grey cells working!