Convincing family member to stop overfeeding horses

[Mule]

My horse is co-owned by a family member. The person in question also owns an elderly Cushing's horse with chronic laminitis. The problem is that both horses are overweight. The thing is that he doesn't see it. He overfeeds the horses. The Cushing's mare has suffered acute laminitis because of it. She is bigger than the other horse. The other horse has a hoof condition that I'm sure being overweight doesn't help. They aren't huge, they're just bigger than I'd like.
I can convince him to let me put them on a diet for a while but then he goes back to overfeeding them. He thinks putting them on a diet is cruel If I put them in a smaller paddock he gives them hay and hard food.

He's the type of person who is an eternal optimist and never believes anything bad could happen. I'm the opposite so I naturally worry more. It's very frustrating but he's the type you need to be tactful with or he gets p*ssed off and doesn't listen. Has anyone ever been in a similar situation or have any tips for how I could deal with it?

 

[cauda equina]

Something bad has already happened ie the mare has had laminitis; or does he not make the connection?

Could you get your vet to speak to him? Sometimes these things are better coming from an outsider

 

[Rowreach]

You've got one with pedal osteitis and one with Cushings/laminitis and they are both overweight? I'd say a serious chat with the family member is well overdue

 

[meleeka]

Will he agree to soaking hay to reduce calories? It would be a start.

 

[SEL]

When I was on livery with a situation like this it took a quiet word with the vet - who started diplomatically with the owners then on a 2nd visit, where it was obvious no changes had been made, was very direct.

 

[Sugarplum Furry]

Following on from Sels' post, a vet visit with co-owner in attendance might be the way to go. Have a quiet word with the vet before the visit about your concerns, advice is going to be probably more effective coming from a professional.

 

[sunnyone]

I would also enlist the help of my farrier. The more "pros" who comment the better.

 

[Mule]

Thanks everyone, the vet idea is a good one. I'll definitely try it.

 

[oldie48]

I've had a similar situation with my morning helper, she hates to see the poor pony going hungry! Poor pony is way too fat. So now everytime the farrier comes give her the farriers prediction on how likely he is to develop lamitits (with a teeny bit of exaggeration) the same when I have the vet in. It has sunk in that we are being "cruel" to be kind but it was a bit uphill to start with. Good luck.

 

[Mule]

I've had a similar situation with my morning helper, she hates to see the poor pony going hungry! Poor pony is way too fat. So now everytime the farrier comes give her the farriers prediction on how likely he is to develop lamitits (with a teeny bit of exaggeration) the same when I have the vet in. It has sunk in that we are being "cruel" to be kind but it was a bit uphill to start with. Good luck.

That's a good idea.

 

[meleeka]

I don’t like to diet mine either, so they have the majority of their hay in small holes nets, soaked if necessary and supplemented with straw. They have a track through the summer months too. It is possible to reduce weight without them going hungry. I have a friend who just can’t see how fat her horses are. I don’t think she’d get it even if a vet told her. She thinks that fat equals well cared for, which is very sad for the horses.

 

[dorsetladette]

Could you suggest cutting out hard feed and giving ad lib soaked hay? That way the horses are never without something to eat so won't be seen as 'going hungry' and you cut out a massive amount of calories from the hard feed.

I personally don't like mine to have nothing to eat at anytime of the day but I use winter as a time for slimming down so that spring and summer isn't a worry. So from that train of thought mine are now a bit on the porky side heading into winter. I've always thought of it as quite a natural way of keeping them.

 

[Rowreach]

But these aren't two horses that are "a bit on the porky side", these are two horses with known conditions, both of which will be seriously impacted by carrying too much weight. And if the OP wants to transition to barefoot with one of them, then the co-owner is going to have to be on board with the necessary diet changes for that.

I think the time for subtlety has passed and the OP needs to have a direct conversation (with the back up of the professional advice) about how these horses are managed tbh.

 

[dorsetladette]

But these aren't two horses that are "a bit on the porky side", these are two horses with known conditions, both of which will be seriously impacted by carrying too much weight. And if the OP wants to transition to barefoot with one of them, then the co-owner is going to have to be on board with the necessary diet changes for that.

I think the time for subtlety has passed and the OP needs to have a direct conversation (with the back up of the professional advice) about how these horses are managed tbh.

I didn't read anywhere about transitioning to barefoot in the OP?

OP also states that they aren't huge they are just bigger than they would like - I've had many laminitc ponies in my time and as long as they aren;t out on lush grass (again no mention of this) they have done absolutely fine being a bit bigger than ideal going into winter.

OP owns half of one horse who isn't laminitic - IMHO subtlety is the only way forward.

 

[milliepops]

OP has another thread about the barefoot transition.
If the owner is one of those "eternal optimist" people then IME subtlety will go straight over their head, I'm with Rowreach.

 

[Peter7917]

Replace all your feed with something like top chop zero so if they give a bucket feed then it won't actually contain anything much.

 

[dorsetladette]

Thanks MP I wasn't aware of the other thread - barefoot 'transitioning' isn't something I would comment on either so I have probably overlooked.

Maybe subtlety is the wrong word - but I'd say you need to be careful with the 'direct conversation' as I said previously OP is only a co owner of one of these animals. my feeling is this would have to be a very positive conversation about 'new' feeding techniques and research backed up with information either obtained from internet searches (carefully done) or from the vet. I'd try and keep the conversation away from 'you can't do this, you can't do that' and steer it in the direction of 'I'm really interested in this this and this and feel this could have a real benefit to 'insert ponies name'. IME eternal optimist's aren't interested in negativity.

My comments are never meant to offend anyone.

 

[Sprat]

We have a similar situation on our yard with a novice family who have an overweight mare with pedal bone rotation and laminitis. The family have relied heavily on the knowledge of the yard owner and vets, and generally the father has done his best to stick to the feeding / care regime set out by said vets. The daughter however just doesn’t seem to get it, and continually feeds unsoaked hay in massive quantities, and has begun trotting in hand when only supposed to be walking. It is becoming a cause for concern as the poor mare is just getting worse.

The YO is going to have a quiet chat, and if that doesn’t change things then she will seek vet advice. As others have said, perhaps a vet chat may be the best option.

 

[oldie48]

Could you suggest cutting out hard feed and giving ad lib soaked hay? That way the horses are never without something to eat so won't be seen as 'going hungry' and you cut out a massive amount of calories from the hard feed.

I personally don't like mine to have nothing to eat at anytime of the day but I use winter as a time for slimming down so that spring and summer isn't a worry. So from that train of thought mine are now a bit on the porky side heading into winter. I've always thought of it as quite a natural way of keeping them.

I also don't "like" my horses being without something to nibble at but I couldn't possibly give Fatty ad lib soaked hay, he is an absolute eating machine, which is actually what makes him such a good companion as if he's left alone as long as he can eat, he's happy! He is muzzled when out at grass, has a big feed of top chop zero with some of the water from the unmollased beet and a balancer +salt twice a day and he gets a well soaked trickle net at night. My latest wheeze is to scatter a bit of hay around his big stable when he's in and he wanders around until he has eaten every last wisp! I just try to make the minimum amount of forage last for as long as possible as he can demolish a haynet very quickly.

 

[ester]

Does he not actually like the horses?

I'd be dealing with it very bluntly

 

[Rowreach]

I didn't read anywhere about transitioning to barefoot in the OP?

OP also states that they aren't huge they are just bigger than they would like - I've had many laminitc ponies in my time and as long as they aren;t out on lush grass (again no mention of this) they have done absolutely fine being a bit bigger than ideal going into winter.

OP owns half of one horse who isn't laminitic - IMHO subtlety is the only way forward.

MP has already clarified about the other thread, which also says that the horse has pedal osteitis, so that's two horses with recognised conditions, neither of which will benefit from being even a bit bigger than ideal, and from what the OP has said, subtlety hasn't worked up till now, so perhaps a bit of a reality check might be appropriate now?

 

[dorsetladette]

MP has already clarified about the other thread, which also says that the horse has pedal osteitis, so that's two horses with recognised conditions, neither of which will benefit from being even a bit bigger than ideal, and from what the OP has said, subtlety hasn't worked up till now, so perhaps a bit of a reality check might be appropriate now?

I get what your saying completely, but OP said this

'' It's very frustrating but he's the type you need to be tactful with or he gets p*ssed off and doesn't listen. ''

Which would make me want to tread carefully - if he gets 'p*ssed off and doesn't listen you then have no chance of working with him, and at the end of the day he ultimately has the final say as he owners the great share in the 2 horses.

As I said above I think subtlety is possibly the wrong word to use. I think we're probably thinking along the same lines, just looking at it from different angles maybe?

 

[PapaverFollis]

"Hi Familymember, I really want to try a new feeding regime for the horses with me thinking about taking beast barefoot... apparently diet is really bloody important! I didn't realise it was so important ((probably a lie but if they don't know diet is important for barefoot it means you aren't shaming them for not knowing, because you didn't know either)) but I've had loads of great advice about it so I want to give it a try.... It might mean feeding them a little less too. I know you like them to have food in front of them most of the time, I agree in many ways that is best, but let's see if we can change things up to get a few less calories down them. They'd both benefit. Can we just try it for a (set period) and see how we get on?"

Produce bag of Top Chop zero and say they can feed as much as they like of that.

Weigh out daily rations for each horse and get a visual on what they need.

If the person is cantankerous and difficult you need to get them somehow thinking it is their idea that they are in control of.

Being blunt with them might work but it might also make them resentful and more likely to subvert your efforts! If you can somehow make them feel like you understand why they keep wanting to feed more but also get them to agree to try being strict for a bit that will probably get a better result.

 

[Velcrobum]

Another to vote for Vet and Farrier involvement as a way of getting the message across.

 

[Mule]

"Hi Familymember, I really want to try a new feeding regime for the horses with me thinking about taking beast barefoot... apparently diet is really bloody important! I didn't realise it was so important ((probably a lie but if they don't know diet is important for barefoot it means you aren't shaming them for not knowing, because you didn't know either)) but I've had loads of great advice about it so I want to give it a try.... It might mean feeding them a little less too. I know you like them to have food in front of them most of the time, I agree in many ways that is best, but let's see if we can change things up to get a few less calories down them. They'd both benefit. Can we just try it for a (set period) and see how we get on?"

Produce bag of Top Chop zero and say they can feed as much as they like of that.

Weigh out daily rations for each horse and get a visual on what they need.

If the person is cantankerous and difficult you need to get them somehow thinking it is their idea that they are in control of.

Being blunt with them might work but it might also make them resentful and more likely to subvert your efforts! If you can somehow make them feel like you understand why they keep wanting to feed more but also get them to agree to try being strict for a bit that will probably get a better result.

This sounds like it would work. I've tried direct before and it just got his back up. The farrier is coming out tomorrow. I'll be at work but the co-owner will be there. The farrier has agreed to speak to him about their weight. When the laminitic was first diagnosed he took her weight seriously but as time has gone by, he has got back in to old habits. Probably the eternal optimism thing again!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

It took me being quite brutal with my sharer, who, even after I spoke to her about reducing sugar, promptly bought a sack of apples, one of carrots and one of parsnips. Just bonkers. I sent a polite but honest message mentioning laminitis. Never had to again.

 

[Mule]

It took me being quite brutal with my sharer, who, even after I spoke to her about reducing sugar, promptly bought a sack of apples, one of carrots and one of parsnips. Just bonkers. I sent a polite but honest message mentioning laminitis. Never had to again.

I don't get the compulsion they have to feed them either. I do know it's their way of showing them affection but there are other ways.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I see it with kids. Some parents are feeders, they see it as treating the kids well. Same with dogs, some owners over feed. I see some dogs that can barely walk. The girl who used to share the TB mare with me overfed, the horse creaked and looked like a cart horse. I saw her some years later, sleek, gorgeous, as she should have been.

 

[dogatemysalad]

Sometimes being blunt doesn't work. It just makes the optimist feed secretly. My pleas to my mother to stop visiting armed with a carrier bag of chocolate digestives, apples and carrots didn't work. She just had to 'love' my heavy weight tank of a cob. She grew up on a farm in 1930s Ireland where the horses worked hard and treats were non existent. I think she just wanted to do what she couldn't do in the past.
Needless to say, the cob worked extra hard before and after her visits.

 

[Rowreach]

Even aside from the OP, I think that this is an interesting discussion.

So if tact doesn't work, bluntness doesn't work, at what point does the welfare of the horse become more critical than keeping the peace?

I can think of a few occasions over the years (including with my ostrich-like mother) where I've not been able to stand by and see an animal suffering and have had to be more than blunt to get the message across. It hasn't always gone down well with the human, but it has benefited the animal. (Obviously starting with the tactful approach and working up).