Copyright enforcement - A new approach

[MrFigjam]

When the horse goes over the jump it goes over the jump - you take the picture! With modern cameras you barely have to consider if it is in focus - it's done for you.


Some of the best pics of my horses are ones that have been snapped by a friend. At a recent show I booked the photographer to take pics of my horse, all her photos were poor, and the one a friend took with her phone was excellent. My mare is easy to photograph, I only have to call her name and her ears shoot forward, she also stands like a rock. Needless to say the photgrapher did herself no favours.

Modern schoolmaster horses are so easy to ride, anyone could jump on them and go round a cross country course. All you need to do is sit on it and it'll do all the work for you.... it's not as if you are doing the hard work, the horse is doing all the running and jumping for you.

Sound ridiculous? Yeah, well photography is the same. Everyone believes it's easy and anyone can do it. They can't.... you proved that with the so called professional photographer you hired.

The one your friend took probably was excellent. People can fluke a good shot, but to nail every single one time after time takes skill.

 

[Capriole]

Tnavas, you may be good at photography, but I jumped at an event recently where the official photographer was pretty rubbish, most of the pics had caught exactly the wrong moment, and showed very unflattering pics( not just of me),

Ah that's so disappointing when that happens. I had the same the first time I took my filly to BEF and I was SO looking forward to the photos, and when they went up they were terrible :/ I thought, so maybe my horse is not photogenic, but I looked at the other horses' photos and they were all pretty dire...taken at the wrong moment, tails/back ends cut off, etc etc., not flattering at all I'd have paid the expensive prices and bought the lot as that was a big occasion for me, but I couldn't find a single one I would have paid for. (The photographer the next year was good, but I didn't buy any of the horses' pics as it wasn't my first BEF anymore, so I wasn't bothered about having any).

 

[mikedpe]

Funny old world, now I have some very expensive photographic gear and I have seen people with equally and even more expensive cameras and yet I have been asked by many of these people how to get a good shot. I just told some fellow photographers a story today of what happened last year. A lady approached the sales tent and said Oh look the photographers, let us have a look. Husband wearing about £10K of photographic neck jewelry said "I have been taking photos all day" to which the wife replied "I know dear, that is why I am going to look at the professionals images" - absolutely delighted to have sold her a package of images.
What was it that a famous Golf player said when a reporter said that he was very lucky? "The more I practice, the luckier I get" - we practice 100s of times, just to get that lucky shot

Mike

 

[spidge]

Fuuny old world, this thread and some of it's posts, contributors and dare I say trolls got mentioned a fair few times by our customers today at a pony club ODE we photographed. So refreshing to hear that what you have taken trouble to clarify or explain is read,appreciated, agreed with, listened to, responded to and better still has a direct contribution to the bottom line.

 

[mikedpe]

What is not so good is the email I just received showing about 10 images lifted from the gallery, Very large horse lorry, riders have multiple mounts so that must be why they can not afford to buy those images they are sharing with lots of people.

What is good is that email came from a rider who says this is not fair.

Thanks to the good ones for showing us the bad ones.

Hopefully more income for the Air ambulance.

Mike

 

[eqaction]

I know that this is an old thread, but I would love to add my 2 cents worth.

I fully appreciate that many people want to buy a small low res image for Facebook etc., which is why we offer just that (for under £5 per image). Our images are always uploaded within 12 hours of the end of an event. It takes 2 of us working all night to do this. The low res images are available as instant downloads (so no waiting for an email). We also have each image named with both horse and rider - so easy to find. We take the best care to protect our images by only using a small thumbnail. To view the quality of the photo you have to use a zoom feature which shows the image in sections. We still however have multiple instances of people screen grabbing the small image with their smart phone. This image is then blown up to a large size for Facebook. Result of small low res image being blown up - a poor, pixelated, blurry image. This does not act as advertising - it looks as if we are incompetent of taking a professional photograph.

When you politely ask someone (through private message) on Facebook to remove the image, the inevitable response is that you are "unfriended" so cannot see the image. Fortunately there is a photographers group on FB where we report copyright infringements, so we can usually still track down the image.

We never photograph at any event that we have not been booked for, and remember that for larger events we can be expected to pay up to 1,500 for the stand. We are covering a European event later this year, and before we start it is going to cost us over 10,000 on staffing, accommodation, travel etc. If all we were to get in return for that were low res. digital sales, we would be in a very serious situation.

I think that many people do not realise the costs of running a photography business - and the fact that equipment needs to be replaced. For example the digital camera has a shutter life - when the shutter gives up the camera dies! I have just had to buy a new camera at a cost of over £5,000. Yes you can of course have less expensive cameras, but we cover some large indoor events, and very few cameras can handle the ISO required for a magazine standard image. In most cases the price of a camera is peanuts compared to the price of good glass (the lenses).

I was amused by the comment that modern cameras do all the work on their own. Have you ever tried to master the settings on a pro camera? They don't come with the auto settings of an entry level camera.

If competitors do not wish to buy, that is absolutely fine. I spent many years competing, so am well aware of the expenses involved. If someone does not wish to buy but decides to steal images instead, then that is a different matter.

Re the comments about poor professional photos: yes there are plenty of those, but in many cases have been taken by people with no formal photography training. If you look at Facebook there seems to be a new "professional" company springing up every day. Many of these are populated with images that are not even in focus! If you are unhappy with the standard of photography by the official photographer - let the venue know. They book the photographer. In quite a few cases that I know of, preference is given to the amount that the photographer is going to pay for the stand, rather than the quality of images. You can usually tell the wanabee pro shooters. They are the ones that sound like machine gun fire. A good shot takes one click only - at the right time.

We are lucky in that we provide FEI and other press photography, so manage to just keep our heads above water. If we were to just keep going with just selling from equestrian events I think that it would be impossible.

It is a funny thing that much as competitors moan about the price of images, there is equally a lot of moaning if no photographer is present. Our local county show had no photographer this year - and competitors are outraged!

I actually think that event photography is coming to the end of it's day. Though many of us enjoy what we do (not always my feeling at the end of a long day, heading into an all nighter of editing), we do have to eat.

Perhaps when there are only the hobbyists with their entry level DSLR's taking the shots (through hail, rain and heatwave), some people will miss us. We will certainly be missed for Facebook . I know that I am glad that my walls are still lined with photos of my competition days.

 

[honetpot]

I am an ex pony club Mum with now two grown up daughters, I have boxes of photos purchased over the years at local shows and some bigger ones, they are all lovely and the girls look pretty good to. So I have a few hundred pounds invested in old technology sitting in boxes. In the old days you would show these pictures to any passing relative and I used to display them for the summer until Christmas cards replace them, then they went in the box. The only time I ever thought of copyright is when I used to sell a pony and I would ask the photographer when the photo was taken, all were great and just wanted a credit. The cost of these photos was factored in to the day out, like the burger van a treat.
Years have passed and I show only young stock and I can honestly say that I have not bought a picture for years as all the photos have been abysmal, when you have a camera that can shoot continuously and you can not get one descent shot there is something wrong. I would love to buy a picture but I refuse to buy something substandard. Then if I have bought one when the norm is to send photos digitally I can only keep it in its virtual box. Facebook now is the equivalent of you mantelpiece, or wall in you lounge just bigger, mostly picture are only really looked at by people that know you and if I buy a picture I want the right to put it on my mantelpiece, I am not making money from it. My friend daughters has just got married and the photos are on Facebook, that is now normal practice. If her wedding photographer started chasing her about copyright they would get a really bad reputation.
If the photographer is chasing the 5% of people who do not pay and lift pictures, its doubtful the culprits would have bought a picture anyway and many are young who have a culture of sharing everything, yes its not acceptable but why make the rest of your potential market feel dirty and have to justify looking at your proofs. I am not clued up enough about jpegs etc but I do know teenage girls and if you can provide an easily accessible product on the day (preferably with bling) that can only be provided by you that is were your money is. I watched tourists having their picture taken at London Bridge, from the photo being taken to them leaving about 20mins they had the keepsake of their choice teatowel, mug etc., heavens knows what the mark up is.
I have been the burger van at shows and festivals and you have to know your market and what they can afford to spend, I paid insurance pitch fee, staff equipment ..... It not the customers fault if they can not afford you product and if they do not want your product you have to change it. Moaning about how much you have spent for your pitch is not your customers problem and you should factor in the 5% that do not pay and provide a product they will pay for.

 

[Tnavas]

Pity you have to pay to have a stand at the show - come and work in New Zealand - we invite you to attend at no charge

 

[eqaction]

.
when you have a camera that can shoot continuously and you can not get one descent shot there is something wrong.

Shooting continuously is the most likely reason to miss "the shot". My background was with film photography - I still shoot the same way.

My friend daughters has just got married and the photos are on Facebook, that is now normal practice. If her wedding photographer started chasing her about copyright they would get a really bad reputation.

Wedding photographers are paid BEFORE the wedding.
..............

If the photographer is chasing the 5% of people who do not pay and lift pictures, its doubtful the culprits would have bought a picture anyway and many are young who have a culture of sharing everything, yes its not acceptable but why make the rest of your potential market feel dirty and have to justify looking at your proofs.

Are you therefore saying that it should be acceptable for people to steal because it's the culture? Would the same culture be applied to any form of theft? Nobody is trying to make the rest of their potential market feel dirty, but why on earth should photographers feel that after a long day's work they should just put up with theft - and shut up about it. Most people would be upset if they were not paid for their work. For many of us full time professional photographers, this is our job, I find it difficult to understand why we see why we should be the ones who should accept non payment. We have to pay our staff.

It is naive to think this copyright theft is only being carried out by young people. Only this month I have found one of our images being used on the website of a large manufacturing company.

I am not clued up enough about jpegs etc but I do know teenage girls and if you can provide an easily accessible product on the day (preferably with bling) that can only be provided by you that is were your money is. I watched tourists having their picture taken at London Bridge, from the photo being taken to them leaving about 20mins they had the keepsake of their choice teatowel, mug etc., heavens knows what the mark up is.
.............

Event photographers normally stand all day taking photos at a fast pace. Camera cards are returned to the computer staff at the end of each class. Photos are then uploaded and sorted by competitor. For some bigger events this might mean 10,000-15,000 images. It is not quite the same as shooting selected customers at London Bridge.

I have been the burger van at shows and festivals and you have to know your market and what they can afford to spend, I paid insurance pitch fee, staff equipment ..... It not the customers fault if they can not afford you product and if they do not want your product you have to change it. Moaning about how much you have spent for your pitch is not your customers problem and you should factor in the 5% that do not pay and provide a product they will pay for.

Where does the 5% figure come from? Nobody is "moaning" about what is paid for the pitch, it is stating a fact. Many competitors do not realise that we too have high overheads. What on earth is wrong with pointing that out.

As I have stated, we offer low res instant downloads for less than £5. The person that posts illegal copies boasts at how they can be screengrabbed when their friend says "Cool, how did you copy the picture". The next post is their holiday in New York! And they couldn't afford the £5. A horse is for sale at 10,000 - the seller can't afford the £5 either?

Nobody is stating that all competitors should buy photographs, but if you like it enough to steal it for Facebook or to sell your horse, then please do not be surprised if the photographer gets upset.

Surely it is better that photographers have the odd gripe on a forum rather than actually enforce the legal options open to them? The awards for copyright infringement are steep.

I think the reason that photographers point out the cost of equipment, insurance etc. is because their is often the attitude that it costs nothing to take a photograph! Nikon and Canon are also very reluctant to drop their prices because we should fit in with what the customer wants to steal.

 

[Casey76]

I haven't read the whole thread, but some of it.

In my area of France it is rare for online versions of the photos to be available. The photographer (or assitant ) will print the photo on the day, and the photos are usually between 5 and 10€ each for A5 size. It can mean queues at the photography booth, but it does mean you can have your photo within an hour or so of the class ending.