Correct position for rising trot

[Marigold4]

I'm an older rider (early 60s) and the way I do rising trot seems to be different to the younger generation. I do what Heather Moffatt recommends, so upper body slightly inclined forward, and when I land my seatbones are slightly pointing back ready to receive the forward movement of the horse. When I watch younger riders, they rise very upright, back straight or even slightly leaning back, seatbones pointing down or even forward. When I have tried out the more upright rise, I feel it's much harder work and that I land more heavily. I probably need to practise it more. Which one is right - slightly inclined forward or very straight in the rise?

 

[emilylou]

You are correct. Correct rising trot technique can be done with stirrups or without

 

[holeymoley]

I was taught to rise as if you’re going over the pommel of the saddle. It’s a forward motion so you go forward with the horse, not straight upwards - I think might be what’s confusing younger people at riding lessons etc.

Eta- it is very much a ‘as if you go over the pommel’ I definitely don’t go right over it

 

[thatsnotmyname]

I was taught to rise with a forward motion in the hips as if you were going over the pommel in an arc. So rather than up and down, it’s forward.

Providing your saddle fits you, you can do this whilst still being really quite upright/shoulders back.

If I am riding in a jump saddle then my rising trot is more as you described.

 

[Skib]

I learned to ride in my early 60s amd rising trot was a mega problem. It seems as if there is no absolutely correct way to ride rising trot.
First there are a variety of teachers, each suggesting that their way is the only correct way.
Secondly there are a variety of horses, whose trot varies and who raise one's seat from the saddle with different degrees of power.

The trot I ended up with is the one with forward movement, rolling ones hips forward between ones hands as described by @holeymoley.

I was taught to rise as if you’re going over the pommel of the saddle. It’s a forward motion so you go forward with the horse, not straight upwards -

But I remember out hacking, I was continually fretting abnout my rising trot tryng to apply what I had learned in my last lesson, and my young escort finally lost patience and said Forget it. She didnt want to hear any more about rising trot, and I did forget to worry and I now have no idea what I do.

Similarly I now have no idea which lead I am on in canter. All the things that worried me so much when I was learing to ride seem to have fled my brain.

 

[thatsnotmyname]

I learned to ride in my early 60s amd rising trot was a mega problem. It seems as if there is no absolutely correct way to ride rising trot.
First there are a variety of teachers, each suggesting that their way is the only correct way.
Secondly there are a variety of horses, whose trot varies and who raise one's seat from the saddle with different degrees of power.

The trot I ended up with is the one with forward movement, rolling ones hips forward between ones hands as described by @holeymoley.


But I remember out hacking, I was continually fretting abnout my rising trot tryng to apply what I had learned in my last lesson, and my young escort finally lost patience and said Forget it. She didnt want to hear any more about rising trot, and I did forget to worry and I now have no idea what I do.

Similarly I now have no idea which lead I am on in canter. All the things that worried me so much when I was learing to ride seem to have fled my brain.

If you are learning, don’t worry too much about the technicalities of rising trot.
The horses motion will move you, just as long as you are working on coming back into saddle softly and not using your hands to balance I’d say that was fine? If you’re not tipping forwards hugely.

 

[Marigold4]

I was taught to rise with a forward motion in the hips as if you were going over the pommel in an arc. So rather than up and down, it’s forward.

Providing your saddle fits you, you can do this whilst still being really quite upright/shoulders back.

If I am riding in a jump saddle then my rising trot is more as you described.

If you are learning, don’t worry too much about the technicalities of rising trot.
The horses motion will move you, just as long as you are working on coming back into saddle softly and not using your hands to balance I’d say that was fine? If you’re not tipping forwards hugely.

I'm not learning - I've been riding on and off since I was 11, have backed and trained my own horses and competed at novice level dressage. I'm just curious as to which method is correct. Genuinely interested. This, to me, is the correct forward incline for rising trot.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

I would have thought that if you rise straight up then you would be behind the horse's action and obstructing it.

 

[Skib]

I am not a proper rider but that pic doest make sense to me. I dont think my shoulders go further forward that my hips and I was taught to have the ball of my foot on the stirrup, but the weight in my heels.

 

[Marigold4]

I would have thought that if you rise straight up then you would be behind the horse's action and obstructing it.

When I have experimented with rising straight up it doesn't feel as easy for me or the horse. I think if I shortened my stirrups I might be able to do it better. I wonder if it's an event rider thing? Doing rising trot in a jump saddle with shorter stirrups? I've been watching lower level (BE80) event riders on youtube doing this "new" trot in their dressage tests.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

As above you should be able to do rising trot with or without stirrups using the same technique.

 

[TPO]

I don't think there should be a forward incline of the upper body.

Ear-shoulder-hip- heel alignment

In rising trot it's the rider pelvis that moves, as well as the rest rising, but that the whole body follows the horse's movement [not behind it].

Even standing and doing a rising trot from a "in the saddle" position my legs straighten and my pelvis moves in a forward arc.

I had a quick Google and this blog explains it better than I ever could.

What lifts You and Keeps You Balanced in Rising (Posting) Trot? (plus Video Exercise)

Let’s start with an experiment. [if you do it please leave a comment sharing how it felt:) ] Exercise: It will only take you 2 minutes. You can sit on the floor or on your bed. Sit on your he…

aspireequestrian.wordpress.com

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

* toodles off to watch video of self riding then toodles back *

I wonder if two things are getting combined in the discussion? There's sitting shoulders upright and then there's where your hips go. For me apparently my shoulders are upright, but my hips are not rising in an upright motion - a bit like the description above, my head isn't really moving up and down that much.

If I were to bring my upper body forward, I think I would be putting more weight on the forehand and would probably feel more vulnerable in the saddle.

I don't think about weight to my knees as I am working on undoing gripping knees! My understanding is that this is a bit like riding with the handbrake on as it is linked to tension in my hips, makes me more vulnerable/unbalanced, and means I'm not using my leg aids effectively. I try to think about weight right down through all of my seat and dropping down to my lower legs.

 

[thatsnotmyname]

I'm not learning - I've been riding on and off since I was 11, have backed and trained my own horses and competed at novice level dressage. I'm just curious as to which method is correct. Genuinely interested. This, to me, is the correct forward incline for rising trot.

Apologies, I misinterpreted your post re not knowing which lead you’re on etc.

 

[Highmileagecob]

I caught a little of the tv programme 'All The King's Men' where the men were being taught to ride. It appeared as if they were rising from the knee and pushing the pelvis forward, rather than taking weight in the stirrups and rising with the horse's movement. It looked a little mechanical and unbalanced. Do what feels natural and is comfortable for the horse.

 

[Jenko109]

To me it looks like your shoulders are rolled.

 

[little_critter]

To me it looks like your shoulders are rolled.

whose shoulders? I don't think OP has posted a pic of herself, just one of Ingrid Klimke

 

[Jenko109]

whose shoulders? I don't think OP has posted a pic of herself, just one of Ingrid Klimke

I guess that's who I mean then.

The Olympian

To me it looks like her shoulders are rolled in that picture.

 

[dorsetladette]

I caught a little of the tv programme 'All The King's Men' where the men were being taught to ride. It appeared as if they were rising from the knee and pushing the pelvis forward, rather than taking weight in the stirrups and rising with the horse's movement. It looked a little mechanical and unbalanced. Do what feels natural and is comfortable for the horse.

That's similar to how we were all taught to ride. You rise from the knee, not putting weight in the stirrup. My mum was taught by a retired army man (very high up ranking) who took her stirrups away if he thought she was putting weight in them when rising. So we were taught the same way. It does give you a really stable lower leg! Although we always would tilt slightly forward from the hips to move with the trot and rhythm. Only as we were more balanced did the rise become more upright, but still slightly forward. Difficult to do without rolling your shoulders.

My riding is a combination of different techniques these days, but I like to think my lower leg is still quiet and stable when rising.

The only time I would think you would see a rider leaning back in rising trot is to push forward with the seat to encourage more impulsion in an extended trot for instance.

 

[Gloi]

We were always taught the same, rise from the knee. I really don't know what is going on with people leaning back etc.
Then again you could always move to the dark side, get a gaited horse and never have to worry about it again

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

The rise from the knee thing is blowing my mind slightly. I don't understand how you do that without gripping? I would have thought that makes the lower leg less stable/more likely to draw up.

 

[dorsetladette]

The rise from the knee thing is blowing my mind slightly. I don't understand how you do that without gripping? I would have thought that makes the lower leg less stable/more likely to draw up.

You do have to grip or else how would you rise at all? The movement of the horse helps you keep momentum, but then you also control the horses speed/stride by slowing or speeding up your rise.

Now something to really blow your mind - most of us learnt to do this in a quarter panel saddle with no knee rolls or support at all!!!

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

You do have to grip or else how would you rise at all? The movement of the horse helps you keep momentum, but then you also control the horses speed/stride by slowing or speeding up your rise.

Now something to really blow your mind - most of us learnt to do this in a quarter panel saddle with no knee rolls or support at all!!!

I am going to be thinking about this so hard in my lesson tomorrow

 

[TPO]

When I got old horse books they all spoke about gripping with the knee. I'm sure it was an old Jill story book where there was a two bob note (or some old timey money) placed between the knee and saddle to check the grip was good enough.

That teaching is dated now. Riders aren't to grip with their knees because that creates a pivot point.

The Rider's weight should go down the leg into the heel (but heel not forced down). There is contact with the inner leg and saddle, obviously, but the rise coming from "standing up" not pushing off your knees.

The blog that I linked had pictures of an unridden exercise. That kind of show how you lift your body not from gripping inward with your knees.

Knees (joints) are to be soft as in no gripping.

Maybe something like Mary Wanless / Balanced riding would explain it better than my attempts

 

[Marigold4]

To me it looks like your shoulders are rolled.

That's not me in the photo though. Sorry I didn't make that clear. It's from an article about not getting behind the vertical by Christoph Hess, a dressage trainer. Article doesn't say who it is? Ingrid Klimke? Wish I was that tall and blond though

 

[emilylou]

You do have to grip or else how would you rise at all? The movement of the horse helps you keep momentum, but then you also control the horses speed/stride by slowing or speeding up your rise.

Now something to really blow your mind - most of us learnt to do this in a quarter panel saddle with no knee rolls or support at all!!!

yes, you do grip, but gently with the muscle bulk of your thigh and calf, the knee joint itself stays loose on the saddle. In technical terms, the muscles are always working to keep you in place and balanced with the movement of the horse by fluctuating between concentric and eccentric muscle contraction- essentially the muscle remains 'relaxed' (as in not ridgid) but is still working to do a job, allow you to rise and keep you balanced. Rising trot is a strength based technique that uses the motion of the horse to aid the propulsion of the body.
Weak/unbalanced riders brace against their knees or stirrups.
The easiest way to implement all of this is to take the stirrups away.

 

[Marigold4]

* toodles off to watch video of self riding then toodles back *

I wonder if two things are getting combined in the discussion? There's sitting shoulders upright and then there's where your hips go. For me apparently my shoulders are upright, but my hips are not rising in an upright motion - a bit like the description above, my head isn't really moving up and down that much.

If I were to bring my upper body forward, I think I would be putting more weight on the forehand and would probably feel more vulnerable in the saddle.

I don't think about weight to my knees as I am working on undoing gripping knees! My understanding is that this is a bit like riding with the handbrake on as it is linked to tension in my hips, makes me more vulnerable/unbalanced, and means I'm not using my leg aids effectively. I try to think about weight right down through all of my seat and dropping down to my lower legs.

I think you're right. If I overdo the lean forward (which I tend to do when things go wrong), he definitely goes more on his forehand.

 

[Marigold4]

You do have to grip or else how would you rise at all? The movement of the horse helps you keep momentum, but then you also control the horses speed/stride by slowing or speeding up your rise.

Now something to really blow your mind - most of us learnt to do this in a quarter panel saddle with no knee rolls or support at all!!!

Yes, the only saddle that fits my gelding is one with no knee roll or support and a flat seat! I'm sure it doesn't help me, but he's happy in it.

 

[Marigold4]

When I got old horse books they all spoke about gripping with the knee. I'm sure it was an old Jill story book where there was a two bob note (or some old timey money) placed between the knee and saddle to check the grip was good enough.

That teaching is dated now. Riders aren't to grip with their knees because that creates a pivot point.

The Rider's weight should go down the leg into the heel (but heel not forced down). There is contact with the inner leg and saddle, obviously, but the rise coming from "standing up" not pushing off your knees.

The blog that I linked had pictures of an unridden exercise. That kind of show how you lift your body not from gripping inward with your knees.

Knees (joints) are to be soft as in no gripping.

Maybe something like Mary Wanless / Balanced riding would explain it better than my attempts

I'm going to have a go at the unridden exercise. I think Mary Wanless does something similar in one of her books.

 

[dorsetladette]

yes, you do grip, but gently with the muscle bulk of your thigh and calf, the knee joint itself stays loose on the saddle. In technical terms, the muscles are always working to keep you in place and balanced with the movement of the horse by fluctuating between concentric and eccentric muscle contraction- essentially the muscle remains 'relaxed' (as in not ridgid) but is still working to do a job, allow you to rise and keep you balanced. Rising trot is a strength based technique that uses the motion of the horse to aid the propulsion of the body.
Weak/unbalanced riders brace against their knees or stirrups.
The easiest way to implement all of this is to take the stirrups away.

SOOOOO many lessons with no stirrups as a child. and never on a nice easy pony.