Correct position for rising trot

[tristars]

I carry myself am responsible for my weight in trot, I try to absorb the sitting part of rising trot and not bear down when sitting, I do use my seat bones as and when needed, but at the same time I want to feel the horse surge forwards underneath me, so rhythm and balance are a priority

I try to maintain a neutral body position, not learning back and certainly not forwards, both block the horse, so body in equilibrium then head and neck over body, shoulders relaxed, hips in line with rest giving a 3 point seat, which Is very secure yet not fixed it takes a lot of practice to hold the positition be poised and almost relaxe
The legs are not gripping but soft, and the hips rise forwards to let the impulsion flow through then lower to meet softly the sitting part of the trot, I try to think about how ba
Lanced it all is so can vary within the gate, collect or lengthen at will
I never ride without stirrups, I feel its a sin to bang on a horses back

Fortunately it works well for me, nicely plump arxh

 

[lynz88]

I guess that's who I mean then.

The Olympian

To me it looks like her shoulders are rolled in that picture.

Indeed they are and she's also collapsed in her back and core.

I was always taught that it's a movement of the hips/pelvis slightly forward and slightly back...similar to how someone else described it by making an "arc" over the pommel. Straight up and down will put you behind the motion IMO. The ability to rise comes from having the weight in the heels, contact with the leg and the inner thigh and core to lift out of the saddle.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Oooohh! Memories of my old instructor putting an old penny between each knee and saddle. And to the rhythm of the trot - 'toes up, heels down, grip with the knees and RISE up, down, up, down.' Later I was taught that gripping with the knees blocks the pony's shoulder, and then later still, a little weight should be on the stirrups, so that if the horse is taken away, you are still in a good position and not pushing the lower leg forward.

 

[Marigold4]

I am going to be thinking about this so hard in my lesson tomorrow

Let us know how you get on and what instructor says!

I carry myself am responsible for my weight in trot, I try to absorb the sitting part of rising trot and not bear down when sitting, I do use my seat bones as and when needed, but at the same time I want to feel the horse surge forwards underneath me, so rhythm and balance are a priority

I try to maintain a neutral body position, not learning back and certainly not forwards, both block the horse, so body in equilibrium then head and neck over body, shoulders relaxed, hips in line with rest giving a 3 point seat, which Is very secure yet not fixed it takes a lot of practice to hold the positition be poised and almost relaxe
The legs are not gripping but soft, and the hips rise forwards to let the impulsion flow through then lower to meet softly the sitting part of the trot, I try to think about how ba
Lanced it all is so can vary within the gate, collect or lengthen at will
I never ride without stirrups, I feel its a sin to bang on a horses back

Fortunately it works well for me, nicely plump arxh

I really like this instructor on youtube. She explains that shoulders should be ever so slightly in advance of hips and explains why. And why going straight up and down gets you behind the horse's movement. It's about 7 mins in. Would you agree with this?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

When I got old horse books they all spoke about gripping with the knee. I'm sure it was an old Jill story book where there was a two bob note (or some old timey money) placed between the knee and saddle to check the grip was good enough.

That teaching is dated now. Riders aren't to grip with their knees because that creates a pivot point.

The Rider's weight should go down the leg into the heel (but heel not forced down). There is contact with the inner leg and saddle, obviously, but the rise coming from "standing up" not pushing off your knees.

The blog that I linked had pictures of an unridden exercise. That kind of show how you lift your body not from gripping inward with your knees.

Knees (joints) are to be soft as in no gripping.

Maybe something like Mary Wanless / Balanced riding would explain it better than my attempts

This is more how I understood it to be regarding the knee situation.

yes, you do grip, but gently with the muscle bulk of your thigh and calf, the knee joint itself stays loose on the saddle. In technical terms, the muscles are always working to keep you in place and balanced with the movement of the horse by fluctuating between concentric and eccentric muscle contraction- essentially the muscle remains 'relaxed' (as in not ridgid) but is still working to do a job, allow you to rise and keep you balanced. Rising trot is a strength based technique that uses the motion of the horse to aid the propulsion of the body.
Weak/unbalanced riders brace against their knees or stirrups.
The easiest way to implement all of this is to take the stirrups away.

Thank you for this explanation

I think you're right. If I overdo the lean forward (which I tend to do when things go wrong), he definitely goes more on his forehand.

In theory I am thinking about the horse moving up in front of me. In practice this is not happening but that's probably for other reasons. Hopefully it will all come together in time!

 

[holeymoley]

I’m trying to think about it, i’ve not done without stirrup work for a while but I’m pretty sure I rise with my inner thigh?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

I usually warm up in walk no stirrups and fairly often we do at least a bit of sitting trot no stirrups but perhaps I will ask to do some rising trot no stirrups and see what happens!

Let us know how you get on and what instructor says!

 

[Cloball]

My brain hurts now but I'm pretty sure there is a way of rising with the thighs not the knee that you can do. When I first learnt my instructor took my stirrups away as I was throwing my legs sort of out and myself up to high and not at all in balance or control, taking the stirrups away meant I didn't have that crutch. But you then have to not grip with the knee because then the lower leg rose up and the heel creating the pivot which also tipped me forward.

 

[tristars]

Well I think she does what works for her, I keep the shoulders over the body,
I had a horse identical to the one in the video, but the present horses are different that tend to be more up at the front and step under themselves not long and strung out,

I agree about going forwards when rising, of course you should

On the still of the video she has her head a bit forward, her knee rising and the heel is up, so she does not look in standing position

I don't grip with the leg and take most of the weight on the ball of the foot so can sit lightly if I want as opposed to a heavy driving seat

If you are upright in position it helps the horse to come off the forehand



If you are totally over the point balance and upright it helps when riding Into halt from trot so the horse can halt with its back end under itself

 

[Wishfilly]

I think I rise similarly to how you do OP, and I *can* rise without stirrups although I don't love doing it. I don't grip with the knee as such, but I definitely grip on some level with my thighs or similar when riding. However, now we are jumping more, I think I need a slightly more upright body into the fence because I sometimes get a bit ahead of the movement and *if* there is any hesitation about the jump, it puts me in a slightly insecure position. Also, my shoulder position is a bit dodgy anyway (one is a bit stiff/messed up) which definitely blocks my pony at times on that rein. So I think I want to get my body a bit more upright, whilst still pushing my pelvis forward with the movement.

I was also taught not to rise too high with each movement- just skimming the saddle is sufficient!

 

[Wishfilly]

* toodles off to watch video of self riding then toodles back *

I wonder if two things are getting combined in the discussion? There's sitting shoulders upright and then there's where your hips go. For me apparently my shoulders are upright, but my hips are not rising in an upright motion - a bit like the description above, my head isn't really moving up and down that much.

If I were to bring my upper body forward, I think I would be putting more weight on the forehand and would probably feel more vulnerable in the saddle.

I don't think about weight to my knees as I am working on undoing gripping knees! My understanding is that this is a bit like riding with the handbrake on as it is linked to tension in my hips, makes me more vulnerable/unbalanced, and means I'm not using my leg aids effectively. I try to think about weight right down through all of my seat and dropping down to my lower legs.

If you have the option of lunge lessons, that can be a great time to try rising with no stirrups- it makes it much easier for the first time if you don't have to worry about keeping the horse going too! IMO it's a good exercise for testing your balance and developing security in the trot. Even better if you can do it with no hands too!

 

[Nonjumper]

I don't think there should be a forward incline of the upper body.

Ear-shoulder-hip- heel alignment

In rising trot it's the rider pelvis that moves, as well as the rest rising, but that the whole body follows the horse's movement [not behind it].

Even standing and doing a rising trot from a "in the saddle" position my legs straighten and my pelvis moves in a forward arc.

This is certainly how I was taught and continued to ride throughout my time riding horses. You always keep you spine straight, from hip to ear and rise by lifting you pelvis up and forward, then back and down in time with the horses movement.